Help with lack of drive for my life's career choice?, or, lets talk about passion.

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Sunshine State
    Posts
    1,598
    Thanks
    1,106
    Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Unhappy Help with lack of drive for my life's career choice?, or, lets talk about passion.

    The following is my snowflakey story. I'm mainly looking for advice, but if I can help anyone else, I'll definitely try. tl;dr if you don't want to scope out this essay.

    I joined this website six years ago, and within the first few days I knew I wanted to be a concept artist. Or, I did at the time. You don't really have a choice when presented with that kind of work, especially when you're 15.

    I'm 21 now and attending Ringling College of Art and Design for Illustration- it's second semester of my 3rd year. Next year is the last one. I consider success having a job/having already done freelance work before graduation/ inclusion in important annuals- all of those I've looked up to have had similar successes. Francis Vallejo comes to mind immediately, of course. He was my idol by the time I got to college. His work, along with many others, made me realize what I felt about digital vs. traditional media- I now know I will never be as satisfied with a piece of digital work as I would be with an equivalent oil painting, or print, or anything else.

    So I also knew by then that I did not want to be a concept artist. I did not love drawing and painting creatures, or machines, or environments, and especially not with a tablet.

    My 2nd year was full of experimentation and attempting to emulate the work of my favorite artists. Each assignment was done with a different media or technique. Tomer Hanuka, Victo Ngai, Brad Holland, Sam Weber, Eric Fortune. I went down the list and tried em all out. I'd have tried much more. None of them were particularly impressive. I didn't expect them to be. The underlying reason for doing this was that I had no work of my own. All this time I still do not feel as if I've ever made a piece of work that I could call my own.

    This made me very anxious- all of my heroes had, by this time, been making huge strides in their art and were developing personal and engaging work.

    By all accounts I should have been and should be satisfied. I'm a fairly competent draftsman and one of the better painters at my school. But I had, and still do have, so much envy for my friends and acquaintances who know what internships to look for and know their own work- they just need to work on their work. I've been working on other's work.

    And now, when I should be working my hardest on my work, I am losing my motivation, and my passion. I don't know what I'm working toward. I have vague goals like 'get into annuals', but the path to them is muddled. I feel as if I knew for sure what career I wanted and had a desire to become a great editorial illustrator or a great gallery painter, or one of the many, many other things I could be, I could dive into these goals and tailor all of my assignments towards these goals- work ferociously toward them. But right now, whenever I am given a new assignment in which the media is open, or, god forbid, the entire assignment is open, I have no idea what to do.

    I've built this set of skills and now I've found I don't have a desire to do anything specific with them. I feel like a toolbox, rather than a carpenter. And I'm not sure where to go from here.

    For the past 2 months or so I've retreated into self-help and motivational online resources and I feel like I've learned quite a bit about the problem I'm having but not much about what to do about it. Most advice is to get inspired, but inspiration isn't my problem- I can pump myself up to take action, but my problem is about which actions to take.

    Maybe it all stems from unrealistic expectations- I can't have the success that Francis or James Jean or anyone else has had. And I'm aware that many top illustrators working today were shitty when they graduated. But I have really high standards for myself...

    Sorry for the essay guys. I hope others have had similar experiences.


    tl;dr: I don't know what I want to do for a career in illustration and it is wrecking my motivation and drive, and I hope others here have gone through the same thing and we can start a meaningful discussion on the topics of passion, drive, and motivation.

    Thanks.

    Last edited by drd; February 20th, 2013 at 08:22 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. The Following User Says Thank You to drd For This Useful Post:


  4. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    1,882
    Thanks
    1,455
    Thanked 1,436 Times in 747 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Damn dude, sounds rough. We all go through rough periods...right now I'm dealing with some personal shit and depression and it's not fun and I'm barely painting these days.

    The real thing with you though is it sounds like you have absolutely no direction. You clearly have a passion for art, and are pretty good at it from what I can see in your portfolio. Perhaps as you say the issue is that you are sort of wishy-washy with style, which is affecting your success. For fine arts, people want to collect pieces from people that will go up in value. They want their pieces they bought to be a [NAME], and when you look at it, you can just tell [NAME] painted it. You need to be consistent.




    When I look at your site, what I see is a collection of things that are each individually quite nice, but as a collective whole don't hold together. I like some of your still lifes quite a lot, and they remind me of Euan Uglow--nice simple compositions, flat colours, chunky planar things. It's a nice approach, and I like their direction. BUT, then you look at your other stuff. Your portraits each look like they were done by different people (none of whom are the one who painted those still lifes), as you can't seem to decide on stylized or realistic, and a couple of them along with the landscape there looks just unfinished to me.

    Your figure work isn't really sellable as they are all quick sketch things, but they're my favourite stuff by you. The penwork there is phenomenal!

    Your illustrations also are all over the place. Each one individually nice, but each one looks like a different artist. If I were to look at a new painting by you, I wouldn't be able to tell it was you who did it. Take a look at one of your heroes' paintings, and even if it is one you've never seen before you KNOW it's theirs. This probably is what's holding you back from a lot of success...if I were looking to hire you I would be a bit hesitant because I couldn't be sure the result would be what I wanted.

    The thing with style is many say that "it develops with time", "you don't find a style, it finds you" etc etc. While those are true, you also do have to play a role in it as well. What artists do you like? Why do you like them? What are they doing differently? How can you incorporate that into your work? You know what you like, you even listed out a bunch of them. That's part of the problem, you have too many sources you are drawing from (haha puns!). Choose TWO or MAYBE THREE artists, and use them as your guiding light. If you choose just one you will be a shitty mimic of them (ugh so many shit Frazettas), and if you choose too many people to look up to you will be pulled in all directions and be in a scenario like now. The other option is to just forget about all those people for a while, and just paint. Don't worry about style or anything, try to keep it all intuitive without thinking or worrying. Just paint. A lot. You will start to find yourself painting in a certain manner with certain quirks, and then after you can cultivate it and push it in directions by looking at other people.




    Anyways, those are a few thoughts, but ultimately I think the best part of my post is what follows. These are a few questions written out by the great Richard Schmid. Take some time to read through and answer them, and really think about the answer. I think it will be a useful exercise for you right now, it will get you thinking about what you really want to do. Maybe then you'll have more direction and can do something about it. So yeah, just my 2 cents on it all, hope this helps!

    1. Why did you go to art school (or decide to take up painting) in the first place?


    2. Did you think you were an artist before you began art studies, or did you think that learning how to paint would make you an artist after you knew enough?


    3. How do you see yourself now? Do you think you are a "real" artist?


    4. If so, is being an artist what you expected?


    5. What does it mean to be an artist, and how would you define one?


    6. Do you think you are any different than non-artists?


    7. Why do you paint? To get rich? To get attention? For fame or adulation, or because it's fun and sort of elite? Is it a way of ducking out of other ways of making a living?

    8. Do you do it in response to a real need for self-expression; if so, what are you trying to say?


    9. Do you see your job as simply creating beautiful things that people can recognize and enjoy?


    10. Are you happy with the subjects you are doing? Are you painting them the way you really want to?


    11. Does your work reflect your true impulses?


    12. Are you actually taking the risks you would like to be taking?


    13. Are you too chicken to explore certain ideas?


    14. Would you be producing what you do if you didn't have to make a living from it?


    15. Do you reject ideas because you think they won't sell, or because they are taboo, or because people might not understand, or think you were a little nuts?


    16. Do you think anyone gets the point of your work anyway?


    17. And what is the point? Can it be expressed in any other terms except art itself?


    Note: I continue here with some rather philosophical "WE" questions, perhaps best brought up in discussion with others, with my disclaimer or at least apologies for any semantic confusion or arguments that might ensue.

    18. Does what we do as artists mean anything? And what does "mean" mean anyway?


    19. Suppose we do produce work that resonates (for want of a better word) within us, and gives us some certainty that we have really touched upon the stuff of true art. What difference would it make in the long run—especially in a world that often seems largely indifferent to us? (And is it really indifferent?)


    20. Why do we work ourselves silly trying to perfect a painting? Is it to simply have a personal sense of accomplishment? Or is it our actual intention to communicate to others our ideas and visions of what we think we know about life and the world we live in? On a more intimate level, do we intend others to see what we see, and then perhaps feel what we feel?


    21. Do we as artists feel that we have a social or political function? Should our work influence or arouse our viewers toward social justice, or some "spiritual" truth, or environmental awareness, or how beautiful or nasty the world is, and so on?


    22. Or is it our function simply to achieve excellence, the way nature does—without the need for justification or explanation?


    23. Should we work in order to reach a point of virtuosity where painting becomes as easy as drawing a breath, so we can then ease into the pure joy of creating and enjoy it like bird watching or a good meal—as an end in itself?


    24. Is our art perhaps something else, possibly an extension of our relationship with ourselves? Is it self-serving (in a good sense)? Should we indulge in the process of creation as a way of entering into a purely personal and possibly even mystical (I hate that word) situation? (Am I really writing this?)


    25. And is the work that emerges from such lofty thoughts merely a record of that purely private experience?


    26. In other words, should we seek insights so we may paint, or should we paint in order to have insights? Or is there a point to be reached where there is no distinction between those things?

    27. Finally, are we all just grown up kids playing with paint?

    Website
    Sketchbook
    Blog

    "Complacency is the womb of mediocrity. " -- Jason Manley

    "If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." -- Bruce Lee
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Andrew Sonea For This Useful Post:


  6. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA CA
    Posts
    2,036
    Thanks
    2,230
    Thanked 873 Times in 479 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Sounds like disparity having a fork in a road leading toward two different passions? Fine art vs Concept Art? Being indecisive or changing your mind mid-stream career paths is killing your mojo? Let me just say a LOT of people would love to be your position attending Ringling College of Art and Design.

    After graduating or getting a degree. Family or people will paint a target on you, expect you to have job right away or instantly successful. It doesn't always work that way. Give yourself a year to do soul searching, put some of those theories into practice. School is some what of a shelter to do some experimenting, it is normal to ponder different career paths.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44K8LtEx9uE

    Name:  art and fear.jpg
Views: 1350
Size:  71.6 KBName:  art_and_fear_by_agirlnam3dgoo-d3hmlru.jpg
Views: 1345
Size:  60.5 KB

    Last edited by Pigeonkill; February 20th, 2013 at 11:06 PM.
    Make a sketchbook happy, feed it a tip to improve!

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85628
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Pigeonkill For This Useful Post:


  8. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    325
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 200 Times in 98 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    "I feel like a toolbox, rather than a carpenter."

    I know the feeling all too well. I have not satisfactorily answered this question for myself, despite having a stable income and my 7th book coming out this year. However, I think a couple of things might help:

    1. Your career doesn't have to look like anyone else's. Especially don't try to follow the career of f***ing James Jean. He's a mutant.

    2. It's okay to not have it figured out when you leave school. School is a time to experiment and shake it up. It often takes 6-18 months after graduation for the pieces to fall into a pattern.

    3. Your sketchbook is one of the major sources for finding yourself artistically. Spend a lot of time working in it, with various media.

    4. Sometimes even if you can't answer the question "what do I want to do" in an overarching way, you can figure out what you want to do right now. And sometimes even if you can't figure that out, you will do something, and then over a period of time you will look back and say , "hm, I seem to be doing X."

    5. I've said it before and I'll say it again (in the words of the immortal Dave Passalacqua, as nearly as I can remember them) - "you do the work, and the industry will figure out where you belong in it."

    Good luck!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mickeymao For This Useful Post:


  10. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    One thing, whatever you do in school doesn't need to define what you do afterward; and what you do right after you graduate doesn't have to define your career for the rest of your life. Many artists shift the focus of their careers multiple times, sometimes quite drastically... And many people have multiple simultaneous interests and careers (for instance, commercial art + fine art, editorial illustration + concept art, editorial illustration + fine art, children's book illustration + concept art + editorial illustration + fine art, etc. etc.) Art can be a pretty flexible career.

    So don't feel like you're doomed if you don't have a single focused direction now. Very few people have a firm idea of exactly what they want to do with their lives while they're students - or even if they think they do, they're liable to change their ideas sometime after graduation. This is normal. It's part of living and maturing and changing.

    Also it sounds a bit like you're focusing too much on rather vague goals like "getting into annuals/getting famous" - goals that aren't related to what you actually want to DO with your time. Maybe focus instead on what made you enjoy making art in the first place, and what kind of art would you be most interested in making (because that's what you'll be doing most of the time as an artist - making art.)

    Part of the problem sounds like the familiar art school syndrome of getting lost in all the possibilities. Art school is famously the time and place to experiment with as many directions and styles as possible. Which is a good thing, but after a lot of that you can start to feel like you've lost track of whatever it was that made your art yours, or why you ever enjoyed it in the first place. This happened to me by the end of Junior year, I'd been experimenting with everything and anything and had no idea what direction(s) I really wanted to go in anymore. What worked for me was spending summer vacation just playing around drawing things I liked to draw. Of course it was hard to figure out WHAT I liked to draw at first, my brain was so filled up with school influences... But by letting myself relax and forget about "goals" and "styles" and "what I should be doing" and everything else for a few months, I eventually started seeing trends emerging in my random noodlings that pointed me in a direction that I felt was really me. (I can't say a "style", exactly, but at least a general direction... I feel like anything I could call my "style" is perpetually evolving anyway.)

    So that's a possible option. Maybe set aside time during a long break to just play around with whatever art you really enjoy making. It may take some time to figure out what that is - but let go of "goals" and everything else for a while and try to get back to just having fun with art, and you might start getting a better feel for what it is you really want to do.

    Also if you haven't read "Art and Fear" yet, it might be applicable?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  12. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    1,882
    Thanks
    1,455
    Thanked 1,436 Times in 747 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by mickeymao View Post
    Especially don't try to follow the career of f***ing James Jean. He's a mutant.
    Hehe this is a good point. Another thing to remember with trying to follow careers of others is that you only get to view it from the outside. James Jean makes everything seem so easy, and just seems to find success without even trying. In reality though he has his own set of struggles:
    http://www.jacktiltongallery.com/con...azine-2013.pdf

    Website
    Sketchbook
    Blog

    "Complacency is the womb of mediocrity. " -- Jason Manley

    "If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." -- Bruce Lee
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Andrew Sonea For This Useful Post:


  14. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Nobody's career turns out exactly the same as anyone else's anyway, there's just waaaaay too many variables involved... You can try to do everything exactly the same as one of your idols and still end up in a completely different place as them. Because you're not them, doing what they did, when they did it, where they did it, and who they did it with.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:

    drd

  16. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,180
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 2,357 Times in 1,211 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You know what, you might want to listen to this Marshall Arisman interview.

    http://illustrationage.com/2010/08/1...risman-part-1/

    I suffer from a certain lack of focus, but eventually jumping around from influence to influence started feeling like... get-rich-quick schemes to me. You know, when you're desperate you'll jump around from thing to thing hoping that one of them is what finally saves you. And of course none of them do, because they're either the wrong thing or because you don't stick to them for long enough to make a difference. I had to take a step back and really focus on what I knew and was willing to do for extended periods of time before I was able to narrow my focus enough to get a portfolio together. And even now, I still occasionally need someone to remind me to stick to the plan instead of freaking out because I'm not James Jean yet.

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

    "There are two kinds of students: the self-taught and the hopeless."
    - Dr. Piotr Rudnicki
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to vineris For This Useful Post:


  18. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    183
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 104 Times in 57 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    People who know what they want to be when they grow up are boring.

    It took me like three hours to finish the shading on your upper lip. It's probably the best drawing I've ever done.



    My sketchbook (it'll get good near the end)
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to J@n!t For This Useful Post:


  20. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    dude, I think we all get to this phase in a big way at one point or another, if I'm honest, I'm still there now - but I've come to the conclusion that you don't actually have to be "just one thing" - there are plenty of guys that do outstanding work in various different fields at different times (here is where someone will probably jump in and tell me you should specialize if you want to excel at any one area, but I think you can make it work with moving around between them) a perfect example being James jean, who you clearly, and rightly so, look up to. But hes just a guy. Like you. Contrary to the earlier comment, he aint no mutant! and I would personally say that the only huge difference between a lot of people and their quality of work is the amount of time they are willing to take on a finished piece. It sounds like you aren't willing to commit to a piece as it were, or at least not in as big a way as the guys you mentioned, so I would recommend taking days, maybe more, to finalize a wonderful idea you have in your head, and bring it to life like you want to, on paper, at which point you will say "but that's the problem, I cant think of anything I want to create"...

    to which I say - get inspired. Somehow. Go out, hang with friends, do something interesting, watch epic movies and so on.Whatever it takes to spark the tinder again . I would recommend not watching television too much - I think it dulls us, on some level. You must have had a certain level of creativity to want to study art in the first place (or at least that's what I think makes most people want to do it...I may be wrong) so it will probably just be dormant somewhere (probably blocked by over thinking it)

    randomly sketch. Anything that springs to mind, or even just scribbles - anything could grow into a finished illustration project.

    search on here for the john cleese video on creativity - its awesome and does genuinely help (long story short - let yourself be free to do it, time wise and commitment wise, and things will flow)

    And if you still cant get overly creative, maybe just become focused on something perhaps more observation based rather than imaginative e.g. still life work.

    I think to be honest the biggest hurdle (getting good) is over for you really, your stuff's solid (and i don't say that flippantly - it takes years to get there) so that in itself is awesome - I'm making a wild guess here, but I would reckon minimum 70% of people who start out wanting to be artists give up before they get to your level. I for one got very upset when I realized it would take "unartistic study" of anatomy and perspective before I got halfway decent - I didn't think art was a science at all, which, as far as getting any level of realism into a picture, it certainly is - and so takes hard work and study. Which you have done, so congrats!

    On a final note, please, whatever you do, don't try to "be" James jean or whoever - being a knockoff of someone will just be horrible, both for you, and the viewer (if they are relatively knowledgeable at all) and try not to hero worship too much - I don't think its healthy putting anyone on a pedestal, whether its frazetta, freud or that girl you are scared to ask out.

    oh yeh, one last thing, do work that satisfies you. Life is pleasure based - if you don't get a kick out of it, you probably wont want to do it, and most of the time in art the biggest enjoyment, for me at least, is in the satisfaction of having an end product to treasure. Although I love the process to.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to haljarrett For This Useful Post:

    drd

  22. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,972
    Thanks
    1,331
    Thanked 1,923 Times in 757 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    drd:
    State in one diamond hard sentence, what your question is.
    Because until you know what you are asking, how will you recognise the answer?
    Take your time... but do it. One question that nails what's eating you.
    It's the only way out... believe me.

    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chris Bennett For This Useful Post:


  24. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    My advice was going to be focus on getting laid...because everything after that is just details anyway, isn't it? But Chris's advice may be better.

    Kidding aside, I would suggest shifting your focus to one simple question, "What do I want to say?" Or basically what ideas do I want to communicate? Not how, not in what style, etc. but just what am I interested in communicating and sharing with others? TBH I never really come up against this particular wall, I think mainily because I've just always started from the idea side of the equation rather than the technique (which is not to say I haven't run up against many of the common issues we all deal with regarding skill development, insecurities, frustrations, etc.).

    Anyway, maybe that shift to message rather than outcome will help a bit. I'm curious to see if it helps. Good luck!

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:

    drd

  26. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Birth Place of the World, NYC
    Posts
    2,830
    Thanks
    2,635
    Thanked 1,044 Times in 681 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by J@n!t View Post
    People who know what they want to be when they grow up are boring.
    I knew what I wanted to be when I was a kid and never have been accused of being boring.

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to OmenSpirits For This Useful Post:


  28. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    555
    Thanks
    72
    Thanked 228 Times in 148 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well, Bruce Lee once said "If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done."

    My advice is that you let it go for a while. Now, I can't relate with being in art school, I've never had that privilege.
    Which brings another thing to the surface, think about how much further ahead you are in comparison to most of
    your peers around the world. This very site, is filled with people who are even older than you, who have been un-
    fortunate to not have the educational opportunities you have had, which create (in some way) part of the pressures
    and doubts you are facing. Believe me when I say that our doubts are greater, cause if you may feel that you're
    treading on a well beaten path, we feel like we're blind. It's good to have heroes, but use them with measure.

    So, if you can, take some time off thinking about this. Treat assignments as exercises. And then distract yourself
    with something other than art, go train, walk in the woods, go somewhere for the weekend, play Dungeons and
    Dragons, or to paraphrase Jeff, go to a strip bar. Just relax for a few weeks, don't be hell bent on art. Have a side
    passion, because when you look at something all the time (like you have just found out), you can't think outside it.

    Then return to your worries with new vigor, they'll still be there. And dammit, don't worry about age, you're 21, just a kid.


    "Don't judge a book by it's cover" Frank Frazetta 1928-2010
    RIP Frank.

    DA gallery http://michaelsyrigos.deviantart.com/gallery/

    CA Sketchbook http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=131601
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Line For This Useful Post:


  30. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    oh the irony. Here I was giving advice, and I've just (not for the first time, admittedly) hit the same wall you have yet again. Damn. I've realized all of this personal study I've been undertaking to gain skill in realistic portrayal of things, and I've completely neglected to do personal work that I'm satisfied with....
    Time to get back to it!....but, seriously, would be great to hear from some more people who have had this mini crisis so to speak - its all well and good studying, but what to do when you're "ready"!
    I think I'm going to get some media I don't normally use, and go a little wild

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I dunno man...like I was trying to say earlier...what is it you want to say? To me that is primary and leads to it's own answers and directions. I'm really curious though as to what that question does for you hal?

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    to be honest Jeff, I'm just having a mini-crisis today, based on, probably, too much self focus. At the moment I think I'm trying to take on a bit too much(as well as trying to forge something in the art world I'm working on a fiction novel-all this in only 3 days off from my regular job a week, I don't give myself a full day off, which could be half the problem), but my view of art has always been quite fluid(and therefore at risk of destruction!). A perfect example being my opinion on fine art/ realism. On the one hand, its incredible the level people manage to attain, as far as recreating reality goes, on the other, whats the point?does an oil painting that takes 3 months create more emotional reaction than something modern that took an hour? I feel ashamed saying that-I really do, as I truly love traditional realism. I suppose what I want is to create work that makes people happy(maybe that's impossible?). A very difficult answer to the question, I know, but that's basically my take on it.

    Today I just had to take a day off and drink at the beach and listen to tunes-there's this funny duality between loving something, and making money whoreing it out-I've just ordered art and fear to try and get over this particular weird slant on things.

    what I may be trying to say is maybe my baby's not my baby when there's money involved?

    what I may also be trying to say is perhaps I've put too much pressure on art, and taken all the fun out of it?

    maybe I just need a day off.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  33. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hmmm...well, tbh this kind of searching is valid and important I think...of course to a point. If I can share an observation and cut to what I read as a kernel of the problem, "create work that makes people happy" is a fine goal and I think shared by most artists throughout history. But it is still secondary to "what do I want to say?"...what I have to share I hope makes people happy, but the more important thing is for me to express myself. For some it isn't a very deep or philosophical question and therefore easily answered (illustrators for the most part), for others it is the core of their endeavors.

    I too have a very fluid, or I prefer expansive or broad sort of relationship with art (if I catch your meaning). Sure much of it causes me to shake my head but I'm pretty open and in my own work focus is the problem as I indulge in far too wide a range of media and interests. So to me that isn't a problem with being at risk of destruction at all...teh problem has always been more of managing and focus.

    As to the money-making aspect...I've never had much insight into this problem because since I was little I wanted to make my living as an artist. In many ways I'm only happy about my work when someone does actually love it enough to buy it.

    I hope that helps again - Art and Fear should be a great read for you. I would still encourage you to answer the core question of what do you want to say...in somewhat more concrete terms as opposed to broad general thoughts. If you do come to more focused conclusion I'd love to hear it.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks Jeff, again this is actually really quite helpful - I havent tended to air such worries in the past for the fear of being shot down by my fellow artists for not being true to my love of the thing, but maybe we all have these concerns from time to time. Originally, before I started studying it (I was one of the guys who saw marko d's stuff years ago and it just blew me away-so I made realistic humans my goal) I used art as a therapy almost, to, like you say about your work, express my emotions, and although it wasnt realistic per se, I loved it. Now, like the guy above Im more of a toolbox without a direction. Half the trouble is I've changed direction so many times - from thinking I wanted to do comics, to concept art, to fine art and so on. Now, Im just a little confused.

    I'l let you know my decision!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  35. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Totally get where you're coming from Hal - and I don't mean to give the impression i somehow have always known my direction and path since I was young or anything. I just knew, and I crystalized it early into this: I wanted to make my living using a pencil (meaning aprofessional career in some form of creative visual art or design). So my path began with architecture...then a graphic design degree...a brush with illustration, album cover artist, comics, and film...then solid home in video game design/production (which has the great benefit of combining almost everything I love into one visual design problem)...then into traditional fine art...and now mainly focused on contemporary fine art and sculpture...along with a love for teaching and sharing.

    So as you can tell my path has wandered a great deal...and from my awareness of peers and friends careers most wander a bit anyway, though probably not quite as much as mine. At the core of any creative endeavor for me is always either doing my best to produce cool, neat stuff (video games), express my love for nature (traditional painting) or create intriguing artifacts and sculptures that express my love for science, physics, music and cosmic/spiritual themes (the contemporary stuff).

    Anyway...blah, blah blah....just wanted to share that diversity is all good...but I think understanding your own visions and motivations is the key to solving the riddle of the toolbox without direction conundrum. Good discussion...looking forward to what you come to.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  37. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    thanks Jeff, its great hearing I'm not the only one! to add to the whole thing I'm a terribly fickle, mercurial person who tries to have as many views on a given subject as possible (I believe most views are worth considering even if they possibly seem absurd at first), so while most of me likes a piece I have created, there will always be a tiny shard of "oh my god, I'm such a hack"...art was so much simpler before I actually learned about it haha

    to try and help clarify things, I'm going to do an 8 week full time oil painting course this summer, sort of a shortened atelier experience, the aims being 1.) get over my fear of paint (Ive mainly worked in pencil and pen for the past 4 years) and 2.) see whether I prefer creating long pose fine art vs more quick work...

    we will see! (I think the thing to take from this, is, dont beat yourself up too much!)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to haljarrett For This Useful Post:


  39. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Cool - sound slike a fun course. Good luck to you! And apologies to drd for a thread takeover - seemed like we were still on topic so maybe of some benefit.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  40. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Sunshine State
    Posts
    1,598
    Thanks
    1,106
    Thanked 226 Times in 174 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Definitely Jeff.

    The answers in this thread have really given me a new perspective, and I think I'm beginning to come out of this funk- I've decided hesitantly for the time being that I'm not going to attempt to make my way into any particular industry until I've done more work for myself, instead of aping those I admire for education's sake. I've also started on a new little series of images- I'm ramming it into my course work to force time for it.

    I am going to write up a more thought-out response soon that hopefully respects all that your replies deserve. Thank you so much. You're all incredible.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  41. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to drd For This Useful Post:


  42. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    'mer-cuh
    Posts
    426
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 105 Times in 89 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Great thread. I'm in a similar situation to the OP, except I have very little actual training and I'm not nearly as good. (Side note: I was a big James Jean / Tomer Hanuka / Sam Weber fan, back in the day. I'm surprised they're all still popular, honestly. (Side side note: anyone know what happened to James Jean? His site's been gone for a while.))

    A lot of the advice here is great, and it hits close to home and ends up stinging a little: vineris likening jumping around from influence to influence to a get-rich-quick scheme, haljarrett's advice about committing to a piece longer than you normally would, the Richard Schmid questions (particularly the one about ducking out of other ways to make a living), etc.

    I'm going crazy trying to find a direction. I'm okay at drawing, and I can probably get a lot better, but I barely ever seem to have the drive to do it. In the back of my mind is the suspicion that ... *drumroll* ... maybe I don't like drawing. I've gotten into it for short bursts over the years, but I usually give it up because I get bored. It seems like a waste to just give it up, though, since I spent so much time building up my abilities as a kid, but ... if I don't like it, I don't like it. I seem to be way more into coming up with ideas for drawings than actually doing the drawings. The process itself seems tedious. Is that weird?

    Having said that, none of this is a death knell for drawing, for me. I'm hanging onto it for dear life until I'm positive I don't want to do it, but so far I haven't found a ton of reason to.

    Anyway, I hope people keep contributing to this thread, because it's great seeing that others have gone through similar things and pulled through. I'm not trying to hijack it either, btw. Just sharing.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  43. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    108
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    This is a wonderful thread. I don't really have my own style yet, but I'm not having any doubts. I look up to other artists but I never compare myself to them. I've never even tried to emulate their style. When I see their work I get so excited that I just want to catch up to them. The thing I admire about my art heroes is not their style but their vision. They all have their own unique messages to convey. I want to show my own vision to the world too. It's what draws me to the visual arts. Style and craft are just means to an end for me.

    I hope the OP gets out of the rut soon. It doesn't seem like a nice situation to be in. Take care man.

    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis
    In the back of my mind is the suspicion that ... *drumroll* ... maybe I don't like drawing. I've gotten into it for short bursts over the years, but I usually give it up because I get bored. It seems like a waste to just give it up, though, since I spent so much time building up my abilities as a kid, but ... if I don't like it, I don't like it. I seem to be way more into coming up with ideas for drawings than actually doing the drawings. The process itself seems tedious. Is that weird?
    I think everyone gets that feeling once in a while. The fact that you stick with it despite your reluctance is proof enough that you love drawing. Most people would just give it up and find a new hobby. But you just can't abandon your passion even if you might not feel that passionate about it at times. It's only natural to get a bit bored with drawing. Once you get to a certain stage improving gets extremely hard. It's hard to see what's at the other side of the wall and it's a bit disheartening too to see a big wall blocking your path. You could just push through it or you could find a nice side path. Both are valid options. Polishing your technique is hard and a bit boring, but it'll be rewarding in the end. Finding a new technique is exciting and it could invigorate your work and give you new energy. I think it's important to keep pushing on though. Standing still and being afraid of the wall will get you nowhere. It's a big problem for me. The stupid wall is just so intimidating.

    My sketchbook Please drop by. :-)
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  44. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lost My Marbles For This Useful Post:


  45. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hawkes Bay, New Zealand
    Posts
    689
    Thanks
    186
    Thanked 231 Times in 176 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Excellent thread and my kind wishes go out to all those who have commented and the many others who have not.

    OK, my few cents worth. There will be good days, awful days, OK says and the odd superb day. That is what living the life as an artist is all about. We are not allowed to walk a simple path, that is not our nature. Ours is to challenge and to be challenged and so keep things in balance. Our chosen path is also a curse in that the need to make/create/give breath to art is a burning need within our very core. So when the fire is still alight but we find that nothing is flowing we really hurt. That is the time that the doubts creep in.

    I am 55, and I have been a full time maker for over 20 years. Oh and I still don't actually know what I want to be. But I do what I have to do to fulfill the requirements of my clients every day and I carry on amassing skills. Yes you are all right, they are what is inside the toolbox and you cannot have enough of them.

    So what do I do to keep things fresh? I always have a self reward out on one of the benches where I can see it every day. And whenever I finish a project I go indulge myself for an hour or so on that project.

    And to get to Jeff's excellent suggestion: what is the question?. He is quite right. Ask yourselves where you want to be in 12 months time and that will point you in the right direction.

    Kia Kaha! Courage-keep on!

    We are remembered only by what we leave behind.

    http://www.kilts.co.nz/WheelerKnives.htm
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  46. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Waipunga For This Useful Post:


  47. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis View Post
    Great thread. I'm in a similar situation to the OP, except I have very little actual training and I'm not nearly as good. (Side note: I was a big James Jean / Tomer Hanuka / Sam Weber fan, back in the day. I'm surprised they're all still popular, honestly. (Side side note: anyone know what happened to James Jean? His site's been gone for a while.))

    A lot of the advice here is great, and it hits close to home and ends up stinging a little: vineris likening jumping around from influence to influence to a get-rich-quick scheme, haljarrett's advice about committing to a piece longer than you normally would, the Richard Schmid questions (particularly the one about ducking out of other ways to make a living), etc.

    I'm going crazy trying to find a direction. I'm okay at drawing, and I can probably get a lot better, but I barely ever seem to have the drive to do it. In the back of my mind is the suspicion that ... *drumroll* ... maybe I don't like drawing. I've gotten into it for short bursts over the years, but I usually give it up because I get bored. It seems like a waste to just give it up, though, since I spent so much time building up my abilities as a kid, but ... if I don't like it, I don't like it. I seem to be way more into coming up with ideas for drawings than actually doing the drawings. The process itself seems tedious. Is that weird?

    Having said that, none of this is a death knell for drawing, for me. I'm hanging onto it for dear life until I'm positive I don't want to do it, but so far I haven't found a ton of reason to.

    Anyway, I hope people keep contributing to this thread, because it's great seeing that others have gone through similar things and pulled through. I'm not trying to hijack it either, btw. Just sharing.

    dude, I feel so much for you. Because I too, feel the same a fair bit - like I said earlier, it is mainly the act of putting hours and hours into a piece that I find difficult. but yeah, it is a terrible thing when what you love brings you so much torment-in a way art can be like a fickle lover itself when you're creativity and drive dry up, like all of a sudden she just doesnt want to see you anymore, and you're like 'but hey, we were meant to go out today and do something' and she's just not picking up the phone. but, she eventually comes back usually when you let go a bit and stop taking your stuff too seriously-its one thing wanting to reach a nice polished standard, and its another to let fear of imperfection kill your creative flow, and output. over the past couple of days I've been beating myself up as I've just moved flats, and haven't had a lot of time or drive to work, and it sucks, but I know she will be back soon enough...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  48. The Following User Says Thank You to haljarrett For This Useful Post:


  49. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mölndal, Sweden
    Posts
    2,781
    Thanks
    2,381
    Thanked 1,912 Times in 833 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The only thing that sustains one through life is the consciousness of the immense inferiority of everybody else, and this is a feeling that I have always cultivated.
    If you want to be a grocer or a general or a politcian or a judge, you will invariably become it. That is your punishment. If you never know what you want to be, if you live what some might call the dynamic life but I will call the artisitic life -- if each day you are unsure of who you are and what you know -- you will never become anything and that is your reward.
    -- Oscar Wilde

    Personally I can feel unmotivaded to do art to a much greater extent than I perhaps prefer to admit. Sometimes I even end up questioning why I do it in the first place. But I allways get back to it. And I know I do enjoy it from time to time. The real issue is perhaps that it becomes something I make myself do, because I know I need to in order to become a professional. If money was never an issue, I might relax a lot more about the whole thing. And it's also something I try to work on more these days. Make it more about fun, and less about work. I find that having fun and not 'forcing' it so much actually makes me do better work and learn faster.

    "I've got ham, but I'm not a hamster"

    Sketchy Link

    Portfolio
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  50. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tobbA For This Useful Post:


  51. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    'mer-cuh
    Posts
    426
    Thanks
    213
    Thanked 105 Times in 89 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    hal, nice analogy. I'm exactly the same way. I woke up yesterday morning (Saturday) fully intending to draw. Instead, I did everything I could to avoid it all day, because the idea of moving my hand across paper for a couple of hours seemed ... dumb. Do they have meds for this? (I joke, but there's the very real possibility that something else is at work, for those of us having trouble with this. Cough.) I DID draw today, though, and it was hella fun, although it was about %1 actual drawing, and 99% random Photoshop work.

    tobbAbbot: yeah, I'm realizing I need to do it for fun, too. I know I'm avoiding it in large part because what I need to do is learn fundamentals, and I'm acting like a kid who doesn't want to go to school and wants to stay home and draw whatever, instead of doing figure construction, perspective, painting, etc. And then I end up doing nothing instead.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  52. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    70
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    diamandis, you may be onto something there. I think the only really killer sign is when you are having difficulty drawing pleasure from any activity, in general, rather than just something specific like drawing. that, my friend, is scary. (so if that's not happening I wouldn't worry too much, and if it is, its definitely time to talk to someone, I'm here if you need me )

    Back to you improving fundamentals, I think this process could be sped up rapidly by focusing on certain things, maybe I'm being completely ignorant here(if it exists already), but that would be a great thread to kill a lot of newbie questions that tend to get shot down round here as everyone is so sick of answering them. for example, and I cant embellish this enough:reading / seeing andrew loomis illustrations regarding how to make whatever object you are depicting three-dimensional is probably the single most important thing I have learned so far. It literally blew me away, this incredibly simple thing, that I simply hadn't thought of-you are trying to carve something believably 3d on a flat plane, so you should know how to create that illusion, the perfect start being spheres etc. I may well be the only one that feels quite that way, but I'm sure others have their particular 'eureka' moments that would be handy to share.
    oh, maybe it was just me, but anatomy does take time. even with life work, and meticulous study, it still takes time. the body is tres complex even when simplified a fair bit.

    oh also, ref is your friend!

    peace

    Last edited by haljarrett; March 18th, 2013 at 01:39 PM. Reason: a change would do you good
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  53. The Following User Says Thank You to haljarrett For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 3

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook