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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb God, will somebody just shoot Eisner?

    I'm probably the only one on this whole site that feels this way, but I hate Eisner sooo much. Ever since I was a kid, I couldn't stand him. Reasons? Look at what he did to Disney. 'Nuff said. All of his little "ideas" and whatnot, he has compleately thrown that company out the window. I'm currently studying to become an aimator, leaning more towards the 2d side. What he said about "traditional being dead" is just shit. He's planning on going compleatly towards 3d now. Why? 'Cuase he was too dumb to realize that not only the animation makes a movie great, but the story as well. I'm preaching to the choir here, sorry. Anyways, doesn't he realize that the only 3d pic they've put out without Pixar was a total and absolute flop. Goodness, I hate this man so much. I could go on forever, but I'll save all of you. I really want to here your opinions on what going on in the animation industry right now, if you care. :cry:


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  3. #2
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    take heart chum...as far as i know, michael eisner is no longer with disney. doesn't mean they'll do more 2d, but check out legacy animation studios...it's a studio made up of former disney 2d animators.

    oh yeah...take a breath and calm down...count to ten...its gonna be okay.
    My Sketchbook

    check out the website:

    ten30one studios

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    I assume you're not laying all the blame for the decline in the US 'traditional' animation industry at Eisner's doorstep, though..?

    I agree that he was probably instrumental in some extremely questionable decisions during his time at Disney but it's market forces, not any single executive, that have pushed the industry towards CG. The simple fact is that hand animation costs significantly more to produce than CG, so what we're seeing is simply an extension of the economically-driven trend that's been sending 2D animation to cheaper studios in the East for a very long time now.

    If the industry existed simply to further the artform and nurture creative growth among it's employees then there'd be cause for complaint but the unfortunate truth is that it's there to generate cash, and I don't think anyone with a realistic outlook should be too surprised at the way things have gone over the past few years.

    Does that sound harsh? I don't mean it to. Animators have it rough anyway, but I really feel for those guys with their industry under seige...

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    I have a question about this economic thing. Why can the Japanese produce a long animated movie for less than 10 million dollars (akira- etc etc) and Disney has to spend 10 times the money to create a movie? Is it because the Japanese are cheap workers or are they just more efficient?
    Life is study

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dixon
    I assume you're not laying all the blame for the decline in the US 'traditional' animation industry at Eisner's doorstep, though..?

    I agree that he was probably instrumental in some extremely questionable decisions during his time at Disney but it's market forces, not any single executive, that have pushed the industry towards CG. The simple fact is that hand animation costs significantly more to produce than CG, so what we're seeing is simply an extension of the economically-driven trend that's been sending 2D animation to cheaper studios in the East for a very long time now.

    If the industry existed simply to further the artform and nurture creative growth among it's employees then there'd be cause for complaint but the unfortunate truth is that it's there to generate cash, and I don't think anyone with a realistic outlook should be too surprised at the way things have gone over the past few years.

    Does that sound harsh? I don't mean it to. Animators have it rough anyway, but I really feel for those guys with their industry under seige...
    The president of the company singlehandedly responsible for the huge decline of an industry seems like a good person to hold accountable.

    I don't know where you get your facts, CG is not cheaper (at least, the top quality). See: Finding Nemo Budget $94,000,000.

    Lilo and stitch production budge $80 million

    stats courtesy of http://www.boxofficemojo.com/ . Feel free to look for yourself. Good CG is comparative in cost, enough to not make it a factor.

    Don Bluth made many a good quality but cheaper 2D feature.

  7. #6
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    'Tis true that no one person was responsible for the decline in traditional animation. But, he did have a really big part in the decline of it. It is true that 3d is "cheaper." Not in money so much as time. And with 3d, the studio doesn't have to pay for inbetweeners, cleanup artists, and whatnot. They have their animators and not much else (sans everyone not realted to animation). The reason for Japanese animation is that, yes it is way cheaper. And alot of companies over there even send work to Korea and whatnot. So, yeah..stuff N things. As far as I know, Legacy is no longer around. Don't know why at this moment, but it's gone. I loved them without even knowing them.:p Matt Dixon, I don't think you're being harsh at all. Just stating your thoughts. Thanks. I hate what Eisner has done with the company (yes, he's still alive and will there..grrr). And I hate what Dreamworks has said about 2d animation as well. Wish the major industry wasn't built on money, but rather people willing to take chances and move out of the box. My 2 cents.

    Long Live Bluth!!

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    What you lose in inbetweeners and cleanup artists you gain in software development, lots of expensive exquipment, render farms, not to mention light artists, way more fx artists, and whatnot. have you seen the credits of a Pixar film? There is as many, if not more, names as a 2D feature.

    All the talk of 3D being cheaper, easier, or whatever then 2D is just rumor, as far as I know. I've made shorts of both, and just compare the money statistics, and people in the credits (not to mention the time it takes to make the movies...comparable as well).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    Don Bluth made many a good quality but cheaper 2D feature.
    Don Bluth made one good film, Nimh (Ok, Banjo was good too), everything else has been mediocre at best. IMHO he is not the guy we want leading us to bring back 2d. How many studios has Bluth run in to the ground? How about all the artists that worked for him that were never paid? No sir, Bluth may be a good animator but direction, studio ownership, leader..... I'll pass.

    Now Sylvain Chomet I would follow......

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    http://mag.awn.com/?ltype=pageone&article_no=2157

    a good nostagic read for those of you who grew up watching ducktales, rescue rangers, etc.

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    God, when I first saw this thread I thought you meant WILL Eisner and I was getting ready to jump through the internet to slap you.

    Michael Eisner however can go suck a duck.
    These grapes taste like Fresno! -- Steinbeck

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    Quote Originally Posted by seb
    http://mag.awn.com/?ltype=pageone&article_no=2157

    a good nostagic read for those of you who grew up watching ducktales, rescue rangers, etc.
    that was a good read, seb. Does anybody running any animation, aside from Pixar, believe in this anymore (quote from the article)" Basically for the most part you watch out for your crew, let everybody do their creative best, and you get the best product."

    Seems today its all about the bottom dollar.

  13. #12
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    Michael Eisner spends days making decisions for a massive international company.

    You spend your days posting on a message board.

    He wins.

  14. #13
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    he got a 40 year headstart. no fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    he got a 40 year headstart. no fair.
    Prediction: 40 years and no one here will be as successful as Eisner.

  16. #15
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    success is subjective.

    rich? thats pretty likely. but successful...a LOT of people have him beat already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    success is subjective.

    rich? thats pretty likely. but successful...a LOT of people have him beat already.
    Which companies might they be CEO of then?

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    success is subjective.
    Eisner has been the biggest influence in destroying a company DYNASTY.

    I say he's one of the least successful CEO's of all time.

    I realize this might be really hard for you to wrap your flabby head around, but success isn't measured by a job title.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetpack42
    Eisner has been the biggest influence in destroying a company DYNASTY.

    I say he's one of the least successful CEO's of all time.

    I realize this might be really hard for you to wrap your flabby head around, but success isn't measured by a job title.
    Ever wonder why you haven't slept with many women?

    It's telling these kinds of lies to yourself.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowBrow
    Ever wonder why you haven't slept with many women?

    It's telling these kinds of lies to yourself.

    *clap clap*

    i know you are but what am i.

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    Oh, God. Way too much testosterone in this thread. I've been reading what everybody has said. To each his own I suppose. I've been following this industry for the past five or six years. I'm sure Eisner is some great guy in real life, but as head of a company, he really stinks. And no one helps him out, so he keeps making bogus descisions. It is true that the well being of the "company" (ie..employees and whatnot) doesn't seem as important anymore as the company itself. I wish that I had been born 40 years ago, so that I would already be a major badass and wouldn't really be having a problem right now. Except that I'm a woman and not many were involved in the industry that long ago. Just babbling about stuff that doesn't matter now. Sorry. :o So, instead.... (me) :machinegu :electric: (Eisner)

    Thank you. :hmm:

  22. #21
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    Yeah, alright... while I wouldn't say that Eisner is totally responsible for the shift away from 2-d animation and such, he certainly bears the brunt of responsibility for Disney's recent strategy of not creating new intellectual material, and resting on their collective laurels (read: copyrights) by dragging up old characters in increasingly stale and forced scenarios. This has caused a long series of bad 2-d animated movies. Most of them actually had pretty impressive animation, where they failed was in content. I'd like to think that, given a few years with a new president (and a few new writers :p ) Disney could really revitalize the 2-d animation industry. If they don't... heck... Japan will take it over.

    Oh, and on that... Japan can make their animated movies cheaper for a couple of reasons. One, they use a bunch of techniques designed to minimize cost, while creating interesting visuals (which also happen to give anime it's distinctive styles. Examples: Motion loops on things like windblown hair, still panning shots of characters or locations, long moments of contemplative silence and stillness, that thing where they move the foreground one way and the background the other to make it look like things are rotating... etc.) and another has (had) to do with the pay rate of people like in-betweeners, inkers, etc. It is (mostly was now...) much lower than a comprable job in the U.S.

    Lastly, on the topic of Eisner being a success or not. Sucess is relative. Some people think that owning a nice car is success. Some people think it means enjoying their job. Others think they need a matress made of hundred dollar bills. Eisner probably thinks that owning Disney is a pretty good measure of success. In my opinion, he is very sucessful at his chosen profession... which would be destroying the tradition of innovation and childlike exhuberence that made Disney the superpower it once was, and turning it into a manufacturing plant for crap like "Beauty and the Beast 3: The Beast Within".


    P.S. I pray to god that that is not a real movie. :hmm:
    Action always generates inspiration. Inspiration seldom generates action.
    - Frank Tibolt

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