Molesine/ Sketching all the time- which pen? Markers?
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    Molesine/ Sketching all the time- which pen? Markers?

    Hello Guys

    You probably noticed last time I am interested here about traditional painting. I started thanks to you couple week ago! So interested in it!

    I bought several book you recommended me and trying to improve/ develop my skills in it!

    What I found out? I started with digital painting couple years ago. Then I felt I want to move to traditional- paper and pencils and continue praciticing mainly environment.

    But what I found out? When I started learn myself how to draw, how to hold pencil, how to draw everything around me I felt in love with it. Before I wanted to focus only to environemnt. No I feel I find my true way of painting- sketching! I was totaly inspired by Andrea Joseph

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreajoseph/

    I want to develop myself in this way. My question is very simple. TO this purposes what tool is the best? I read several articles about MOLESCINE NOTEBOOK (andrea joseph recommend) especially I want to have some quality friendly notebook all the time with me. I gave to myself promise everyday I want to sketch something. Because I like it. I was thinking about different tool then pencils- Markers? Can anybody recommend me it? I read about SAKURA MICRON PIGMA- But I do not know which size or color for this purposes? Can you give me advice? I will be so gratefull.

    Thank you so much guys

    PS: Another Examples:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/searen_...7631688735766/

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    Don't waste your money on Moleskine: any sketchbook will do. If you're a beginner, you probably need to break through that 'omg, I'm gonna work in my sketchbook so it must be perfect or I'm gonna waste another page in my expensive Moleskine book' block. Buy something cheap and find out what paper works for you.

    Grinnikend door het leven...
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    As an additonal word of caution, my moleskines don't handle markers (in my case copics) very well at all. The ink seeps through the page unto the other side and the page underneath it.

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    I agree with the others. If you are going to sketch all the time, get a cheap sketchbook. Not cheap as in it will fall apart after 2 days in your bag but cheap as in not fancy and not a brand. I also wouldn't buy a big pile of one type of sketchbooks, you are just starting, try out stuff. Same for pencils, same for markers. Art is not one size fits all and the secret to being good is not to use the same tools your idol does. The secret is practice and you can't get that on a forum.

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    regards to my links I provided you, can you give me suggestions which kind of exactly? To use pencils or markers? I like the result when using Sakura Micron Pigma like joseph andrea... thank you a lot

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    I do it- every day. But I would like to sketch everywhere- I want to find style as Andrea Joseph have. to me is very close. Have all the time with me sketchbook and pencils or markers. Please I wont want to spent so much money to trying which is better (combinaciton of paper- sketchbook and markers), for that please give me suggestion which sakura pigma micron shoudl i buy? (size? and which sketchbook, why not moleskine?

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    There's nothing wrong with wanting to imitate a certain look and use materials you see elsewhere. I once spent weeks trying to find a charcoal/paper solution that would give me results like the charcoal/newsprint combination the people at Watts atelier use. Unsuccessfully, I might add. I can't help you on that front though, maybe someone else here can.

    I'd just like to warn you against having "finding style X with materials Y" as a primary goal. There's more then one thing wrong with that goal. First of all, style is the last thing you'll have to worry about. It'll come on its own, and ideally you'll be able to switch between "styles" as you wish. Secondly, even if you had all the exactly identical materials as the artist you quoted, your work would still not look like their work. You'd have to replicate their brain and their experiences as well.
    Never forget that. Just wanted to make that clear since it's a trap I see many aspiring artists fall into.

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    We got it, you want to doodle in black and white all the time like that guy. Having the same material as him is not important. It's not like he was painting in oils and you were using crayons, he's just drawing. So go to the store and buy a handful of different non-fancy sketchbooks and a handful of different pens and markers, mix and match and experiment. You have a few thousand ugly drawings in you, you might as well get started. Maybe along the way you will find a way to replicate his stuff exactly. Maybe you will find something better. The good thing is either way you will learn something. And most likely, when all these sketchbooks are full and these pens are spent, you won't give a flying crap about copying this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benedikt View Post
    As an additonal word of caution, my moleskines don't handle markers (in my case copics) very well at all. The ink seeps through the page unto the other side and the page underneath it.
    You must have a cheaper knock off of the Moleskine brand. I've never had bleed problems with pigment based markers. Sketchbooks are a personal thing and people work in it differently. Andrea Joseph is a recorder using ballpoint pens so it's not a "practice to get better sketchbook". Choosing a sketchbook really revolves around what you want to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    You must have a cheaper knock off of the Moleskine brand. I've never had bleed problems with pigment based markers. Sketchbooks are a personal thing and people work in it differently. Andrea Joseph is a recorder using ballpoint pens so it's not a "practice to get better sketchbook". Choosing a sketchbook really revolves around what you want to do.
    Nope, original moleskine. My copics bleed through the paper of both the smaller sketchbook (A5) as well as the large A4 one.

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    you will find that you see something wonderful walking the street ..but no sketchbook.. the back of a envelope will suffice till you get home..i have two tin boxes and three folders that to many

    seem like a pile of odd paper bits (30 years worth)... but they are part of the idee fixe in the creation of artwork..i agree with Benedikt about the materials and kinds of paper...

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    yes I understand you are right. Tommorow I going to buy some handy A5 sketchbook. I gave myself promise I want to at least overy day sketch some piece with some diary from day I live through so for that I am gonna to buy some handy sketchbook and also I try to order Sakura pigma micron- any suggestion which size will be suitable for these purposes? as a beginning with markers? like andrea do?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreaj...7629459708867/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreaj...7629116701880/

    thank you so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    Ya sketchbook really revolves around what you want to do.

    as I described above everyday sketching, sketching black and white or some colors put on it as well after some time using pencils and markers together to find what suit me the best. to not spend so much money I trust you guys to give me some advice which exactly sketchbook and marker would be the best....

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    Okay OP -- I do a lot of the kind of sketching that you seem to want to do, so here is my experience from the past few years:

    #1 - You will spend money trying out materials. It is inevitable. There is no way to avoid this, art materials are all somewhat different, and no one can guess at the specific combination that you will eventually find wonderful. Almost no art material is useless, though. I have owned just about every kind of art material that you can get in my city, and I have used them all for something. Every kind of sketchbook I got was okay for sketching. Every pen made marks. Over time I discovered that I like some sketchbooks and dislike some other sketchbooks, but even the ones I disliked were all usable.

    #2 - Trying new art materials is FUN. I go sketching once a month with a group of artists and every time we meet I come away with a new pen to buy or a new technique I would like to try next time. Every artist in the group has a different pen and a different brand of sketchbook. Many have more than one kind. This should tell you something.

    #3 - Moleskines are expensive and the Moleskine Sketchbook paper is yellow. They don't have many pages. But they do have a nice pocket in the back to keep things, so I often use one when I am traveling and need a place to keep tickets or business cards. Otherwise I find them to be a giant waste of money, and I get the plain black hardbound sketchbooks from the store that have like... three times more pages than a Moleskine.

    #4 - Markers are also expensive, and some of them bleed through to the other side of the page, and you need many markers because they do not blend well. If you insist on using them, start with a set of gray markers so you don't have to buy or carry 50 colours with you. Personally, I use pencil crayons or watercolour paints to provide colour. If you decide to use watercolour, you will need a watercolour sketchbook and a way to carry water.

    #5 - Almost all technical pigment pens are the same. The differences between them are very small. Microns, Staedtler pens and Faber-Castell ECCO pens, all the same. Just make sure they say "waterproof pigment" on the side and then buy the cheapest one, in several different sizes. Personally I get them in 01, 02, and 03, and then I get a brush pen to make even fatter lines and fill in large areas of black, but you may have other preferences.

    #6 - If you're going to draw from life, bring a digital camera with you so that you can finish the sketch from a photo when a giant truck has decided to park in front of your subject or the man you were drawing has wandered away or the light has changed.

    @bcarman - You are right, and so is Benedikt. Pigment-based markers (in my case PITT pens) do not bleed through Moleskine paper. Alcohol-based markers (in my case TRIAs) bleed like a son of a bitch. I have examples of both in the very same Moleskine.

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    I like Faber-Castell PITT pens/markers for sketching. They're about half the price of Copics, come in a wide range of colors, and they have a flexible brush tip, so once you've gotten used to them, you can push them around in different ways to make differently shaped marks. They don't really blend, but you can always just layer colors, and if you're sketching and not worrying about creating finished pieces, this shouldn't be too bothersome. Also, they don't bleed through the page unless you leave them in one place for a number of seconds, and they don't emit odors. I've never used a Moleskin, but you could definitely draw on both sides of Strathmore sketchbook sheets.

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    Yeah, I thought all Copics were pigment but I guess not. They must have marker markers too. I just like the feel of Moleskine, the heft and the paper doesn't bother me as I work in ink or acrylic in the book. Over the years the paper seems to be getting less yellow too. There is also a brand that looks like Moleskine with a canvas cover and the paper is a little nicer. Can't remember the brand right now but I get a discount so the price is great. Most of those black sketchbooks don't lay open the way I like and the paper is too lightweight. Like I said, a sketchbook is personal and it takes time to find your gold.

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    Copics have dye, not pigment. I am not even sure there are off-the-shelf markers which use pigment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    Copics have dye, not pigment. I am not even sure there are off-the-shelf markers which use pigment.
    I am holding one in my hand right now that says pigment ink.

    http://www.jetpens.com/Copic-Multili....03-mm/pd/3383

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    I am holding one in my hand right now that says pigment ink.

    http://www.jetpens.com/Copic-Multili....03-mm/pd/3383
    Those are the pen variety... they are water based pigment, but have a limited colour range. Standard Copic markers are all alcohol and dye based and will bleed through almost everything.

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    Sorry, misunderstood you. I meant Copic markers, not their technical pens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misplacedhippos View Post
    Those are the pen variety... they are water based pigment, but have a limited colour range. Standard Copic markers are all alcohol and dye based and will bleed through almost everything.
    Guys, I know the difference between markers and pigment pens. The fact is that Copic makes both. I didn't know about their markers since I use only the pigment pens. I used to use markers back when they were xylene not alcohol. Much subtler colors. In fact I use other markers in my Moleskine and have no problem at all. I just didn't know about Copic markers. Know plenty about markers in general though. Some people call the pigment pens markers because they use the same porous tip flow technology. In fact some companies like Jet Pens sell them with markers.

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    What's with ragging on moleskines, I like them. The paper is better than most crap that's being put in sketchbooks.
    But then again the primary reason I buy moleskines is because they have almost no grain.
    They also work great with brushpens, although the pages absorb a lot of the ink very fast.

    Anyway, you can fixate yourself on specific brands that other artists use but there is really no point.
    You will never get the same feel that the other guy does because you're a different person.

    It's very similar to the question: "What photoshop brushes do you use?", honestly it doesn't matter, because what I use will probably not work for you.

    I'll echo what everyone else said, just experiment with different mediums, different papers and eventually you'll find something you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skullsquid View Post
    What's with ragging on moleskines, I like them. The paper is better than most crap that's being put in sketchbooks.
    But then again the primary reason I buy moleskines is because they have almost no grain.
    I like the paper, I loathe the fact that there's only 50 pages of it for $17. I know I said you should be prepared to bleed money but Moleskine twists the knife as it goes in. And it doesn't seem to stand up to dip pens very well. I do miss having a smooth-paper sketchbook, though. I'm considering buying a pad of Borden & Reilly Paper for Pens and binding my own.

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    I use to buy blocks of Arches hotpress smooth watercolor paper.
    Expensive, but beautiful paper and also quite versatile.
    I should start binding my own, that's usually the best solution.

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    I think that the Moleskine watercolor books are worth the money.

    For "dry media" sketching, the Canson hardback books are a better value-- the only advantage the Moleskine SBs have is that, compared to a true hardback, like Canson, it's easier to squish them flat and draw across two pages.

    But Moleskine does have that Hemingway Cool Factor, like bull fight snobbery, drinkin' yourself into oblivion, an checking out by 12 gauge through the roof of the mouth. . .

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    I'm a fan of wire bound sketchbooks myself because I fold them over and draw in my lap or holding the book with one hand. I have tried dozens of brands and lately I favored the Strathmore Visual Journals, I'm sure I will discover a new favorite in time.
    http://www.strathmoreartist.com/visual-journal.html

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    TL;DR Don't get a Moleskine because that's what the cool kids do. Get a Moleskine if it suits your needs and are comfortable with the price/paper ratio.

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    Thank you very much for a such interesting discussion. I found out moleskin very useful. I bought a sketchbook 140gsm and it seems to me like a very nice combination- soft pencils an hard paper. Moleskine is I guess 160 gsm which is seems very nice combination. I try to buy one piece and I will see how it will go with my sketching purposes like andrea jospeh style...

    But there is questions remainds. I am using only pencils. Regards to Andre Joseph style:

    How should I colored my pieces? Like him? Or which markers should I use? regards to these kind of sketching to reach similar style- not exactly but to me it seems very close this spectrum of color and strokes he used.

    thank you so much.

    PS: Otherwise I agree with everything you mentioned. And thanks for very useful advices how to sketches. I appreciate it!

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