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  1. #1
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    Do you see big mistakes?

    This is my last one. I haven't refined anything so far, just the general idea. I'd like to benefit from your always useful advices once more.
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    how did you approach this? i am guessing without doing lineart first? i definitely should do lineart first, and you should also get some kind of pose reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOvictory View Post
    how did you approach this? i am guessing without doing lineart first? i definitely should do lineart first, and you should also get some kind of pose reference.
    i wrote "i definitely should do lineart first, i meant you :/ my brain is just a little stupid atm^^

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    I disagree. I think blocking in your shapes with a big brush is where you should start. Save the dessert for last (dessert being the face or your favorite part). And, yes, I agree that you should have a reference.

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    Unfortunately, my first thought was, "she has a giant gaping hole in her side? And she's reaching into it? And fire's coming out??" It really took me awhile to realize that gaping hole is actually a torch. The values and forms need work, the fire should be illuminating some key areas more (especially the handle of the torch).

    "Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it" -- Confucius

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    Major problem is storytelling (more of this later) as well as all the basic fundamental problems (anatomy, lighting, perspective etc)
    In reality would you hold a flaming torch that close or would you hold it high above you to illuminate your way.
    The light drop off with torches is immense, think around a 10 foot spread, very localised to the torch, so its not going to light up all the walls or all of her (heavy shadows)
    Read this about losing edges etc:
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ips-and-Tricks

    Now as for storytelling - seeing as you have a limited focus (a singular girl) then you must support her with secondary focuses (the scenery) otherwise the viewers won't make out the story.
    You need to make the scenery a character rather than just walls, give it some personality (which you started to do with the cracks) - it's not 'a room' its a ' dark gothic mausoleum, full of tombs, spilling an eerie fog', let the eye wander over those elements (to find your surprise of eyes in the background).
    Even in my OP there's room for more 'flavour' to the room - as long as it doesn't compete with the primary focus (the girl)

    You need more thumbnails before you even start on colour.
    see OP

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    some grist for your mill. google is way better than god; askt he right questions and your prayers will be answered.. these might start you off but a little research goes a long way..










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    I'm not going to touch on the storytelling element of the picture as Venger & VelocityKendall have already provided more than I could have offered.
    As with Venger's paintover - you need to push the contrasts in your image much more to really give the scene a punch. I also agree it is a little odd to hold the torch so close, so it would be good to look at a few different poses before you commit.


    In terms of your rendering, while it is important to have sharp, clear
    areas, it is just as important to let some edges be unfocused and/or blend into the background.

    The torch should be the brightest element in the picture but is rendered with colors of the same tone and saturation which is really flattening your image.
    If you can punch up the contrasts between light and dark as well, we will be able to really capture the depth of the scene. (VelocityKendall dug up some nice references for you)
    As long as you are constantly aware/reference how you want to light the scene it will help pull all the elements together

    The paintover is simply a suggestion as to how I would proceed with the image, it may work for you, it may not.

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    1. Place your figure in the environment, establish the mood and the light.
    2. Block out where the light will fall on the figure and in the background.
    3. When working with clothing - particularly long or billowing clothes, I find it helpful to draw over the existing figure to make sure you maintain proportions. When in doubt, references are the only way.
    4. Working on top of the figure, begin to block in the cloth work from large to small to avoid messy/scribbly brushwork.

    From there you can continue to tighten the entire image up until you are happy with it.

    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    Major problem is storytelling (more of this later) as well as all the basic fundamental problems (anatomy, lighting, perspective etc)
    In reality would you hold a flaming torch that close or would you hold it high above you to illuminate your way.
    The light drop off with torches is immense, think around a 10 foot spread, very localised to the torch, so its not going to light up all the walls or all of her (heavy shadows)
    Read this about losing edges etc:
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ips-and-Tricks

    Now as for storytelling - seeing as you have a limited focus (a singular girl) then you must support her with secondary focuses (the scenery) otherwise the viewers won't make out the story.
    You need to make the scenery a character rather than just walls, give it some personality (which you started to do with the cracks) - it's not 'a room' its a ' dark gothic mausoleum, full of tombs, spilling an eerie fog', let the eye wander over those elements (to find your surprise of eyes in the background).
    Even in my OP there's room for more 'flavour' to the room - as long as it doesn't compete with the primary focus (the girl)

    You need more thumbnails before you even start on colour.
    see OP
    I'm very ashamed, I've already spent an indescent time on it and your value sketch crush it in any way. Gosh, I guess it's the difference between good ones and beginners.... I hope you won't mind if I borrow you the pose to use it. I wanted it to look like a run away scene but I realise it's not working very well without mentionning that she does risk to set fire to her clothes in this position. i like very much the idea of a statue in foreground. It adds to the scene.

    @Velocity Kendall: thank you for the references. Useful as usual.

    @EZpaint: thank you for the efforts you put to explain how to do it. I think it will be my basics to handle this kind of pictures, i'll keep that in mind in the future.

    As soon as I'll have time to work on it I'll show you the results.

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    her boobies are on fire

    You need more thumbnails before you even start on colour.
    (do you mean, "you need to work on value before color.")

    (thumbnails can be color...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izi View Post
    her boobies are on fire



    (do you mean, "you need to work on value before color.")

    (thumbnails can be color...)
    Lol! That's why I'm going to change the pose, it would be so cruel.
    You're right I think he meant value and I understood this way. That being said, it's a good question I've been asking for long now. Value then coloring or colors right away with careful attention to values by using a desaturated filter?
    I've never colored a B&W picture and I'm not sure you can get the same result from this tecnique compared to a direct painting with colors. Anyone as an experience to share about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izi View Post

    (do you mean, "you need to work on value before color.")

    (thumbnails can be color...)
    This is true - thumbnails can be colour, though for speed as a beginner I'd suggest a grayscale thumbnail - get those ideas down as fast as possible - worry about colour when you've got your image (roughly) defined and your values right (yes, colour has value as well but can complicate things very quickly when you first start out.)
    When you get more confident with your understanding of colour, great, go ahead and move to colour thumbs.

    I don't suggest you colour a B&W image, that has it's own problem that are hard to overcome.

    I'd suggest you start with a loose sketch >> blocking in your lighting/values. Do this in a small 1 x 2 inches frame (or whatever ratio you're using), and do a few. Try your basic ideas out when they are tiny and it should help you not waste time when its larger.
    I suggest you use the 'value' you set in your thumbs when choosing colours.

    That's how I'd do it, I'm sure other painters have different methods - find one that suits you.

    Last edited by Venger; February 8th, 2013 at 12:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StefRob View Post
    Lol! That's why I'm going to change the pose, it would be so cruel.
    You're right I think he meant value and I understood this way. That being said, it's a good question I've been asking for long now. Value then coloring or colors right away with careful attention to values by using a desaturated filter?
    I've never colored a B&W picture and I'm not sure you can get the same result from this tecnique compared to a direct painting with colors. Anyone as an experience to share about it?

    Well, you can do it, it's much easier with digital than oil. Every color has a value, every value is simply light or dark and doesn't depend on color whatsoever. Photoshop does most of the work for us in this. (Chroma or what is called saturation in PS, does depend on value and hue tremendously, very tricky)

    Value and color at the same time. There is no such thing as color without value. Value is always there, and even color is always there. There's really no such thing as absolute black, unless you are in a completely pitch black room, even then your brain has a tendency to color it, and there is no such thing as absolute white.

    but that"s not as important as just remembering value is always there

    color makes value more complicated to understand

    thats why in european academic art the student starts with grisaille

    color isnt even begun until you have mastered draftsmanship and value

    hence you start a master copy drawing for draftsmanship, then a master copy drawing for value (shaded) then the cast drawing for value and drawing. The lessons are repeated until learned. (It takes a year or so)

    There is also a saying along these lines that says "line and color are the same"

    If you understand that you will have a much easier time transitioning from drawing to painting.

    sehertu mannu narāṭu ina pānāt šagapīru ningishzidda
    abrahadabra
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    Here is the new iteration. Far from being finished but I was wondering what you think about it. Especially color and value-wise. Thanks by advance.

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    I couldn't wait to rework it so I didn't wait your advices. ;-)
    So far I'm rather happy with it BUT I'm realising that somewhere on the way I've lost the depth of Venger sketch and fail to see how. Somebody to explain it or give ideas to correct it?

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    You're getting into detail before your forms are right - your arch is off and is taking up a dominant role in the painting.
    Don't rely on my sketch to provide you with all the answers (the anatomy if off in my sketch, you seem to have followed it…)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    You're getting into detail before your forms are right - your arch is off and is taking up a dominant role in the painting.
    Don't rely on my sketch to provide you with all the answers (the anatomy if off in my sketch, you seem to have followed it…)
    I fear my eyes aren't trained as yours, what's the issue with the arch? is it the upper rounded part that annoys you? I can correct it, details, arch and character are made on differents layers (I'm getting careful with time in this forum ;-) ). Same thing for anatomy.
    Guilty at charge about taking your sketch as reference. It really appealed to me.

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    theres no perspective on the door

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    Quote Originally Posted by StefRob View Post
    Guilty at charge about taking your sketch as reference. It really appealed to me.
    There's no problem with that, but now you need to break out your resources to double-check and develop the figure. Use Venger's sketch as a starting point and expand from there. When working on the anatomy, you should ignore the clothing and make sure the forms fit together underneath, then work on the fabric and make it respond to the form underneath. Right now the proportions of the arm and the placement of the shoulder in particular feel really weird to me. Use yourself as a model if you need to (with a mirror or camera depending on what you have at your disposal) to make sure the pose is natural and accurate.

    Also, try to inject a little more personality into the character. What is she feeling? Is she afraid, curious, in awe? Show us. But nail the structure first.

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  27. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    There's no problem with that, but now you need to break out your resources to double-check and develop the figure. Use Venger's sketch as a starting point and expand from there. When working on the anatomy, you should ignore the clothing and make sure the forms fit together underneath, then work on the fabric and make it respond to the form underneath. Right now the proportions of the arm and the placement of the shoulder in particular feel really weird to me. Use yourself as a model if you need to (with a mirror or camera depending on what you have at your disposal) to make sure the pose is natural and accurate.

    Also, try to inject a little more personality into the character. What is she feeling? Is she afraid, curious, in awe? Show us. But nail the structure first.
    Here are the last modifications: I changed her face expression and indeed after doing a puppet I realised that her left arm was too short and too high.

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    Next step: the monster in the dark and putting some foreground element to involve more the viewer.

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  28. #21
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    Ok I going to post this, its a brilliant example:
    http://muddycolors.blogspot.co.uk/20...barbarian.html

    My sketch is basically a thumbnail, from that you work up your finalised 'pencils'.
    So that's where you shoot a ref shot, and work out all the anatomy/cloth problem before you start to throw paint at it.

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    Hey, I did this paintover before your rework, and only got 'round to posting it now, but it might still be of some help

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  31. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterdistant View Post
    Hey, I did this paintover before your rework, and only got 'round to posting it now, but it might still be of some help
    Thanks for the paintover. Better late than never.

    Here are the last details I added:

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