Hmmm...
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    Hmmm...

    I'd like to get better, but I need practice!

    Where do i start? I can draw, but at the same time, I can't! Do i draw circles all day? shade shapes? figures? study anatomy?

    there's so many ranges of art, I want to draw people, animals, nature, scenery, imagination... but where can I possibly begin?

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
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    but where can I possibly begin?
    Pick up pencil, sit down and draw. There's no better beginning.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Electric Ant View Post
    Pick up pencil, sit down and draw. There's no better beginning.
    But i've been doing that for 8 years and still haven't learned any techniques...

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

  4. #4
    thanoss Guest
    my god man 8 years wtf. Man Dont come here asking how the hell do you learn, go bloody teach yourself how to learn. The guy above said pick up a pencil and draw, then you write "But i've been doing that for 8 years and still haven't learned any techniques..."

    Seriuosly wtf do yuo expect someone to give you some magic learning technique? Set yourself a bloody plan, go look up learning techniques and bloody practice, how hard can it bloody be?

    No wounder this site has gone to the dogs, this same bloody nonsense questions come up everyday.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanoss View Post
    my god man 8 years wtf. Man Dont come here asking how the hell do you learn, go bloody teach yourself how to learn. The guy above said pick up a pencil and draw, then you write "But i've been doing that for 8 years and still haven't learned any techniques..."

    Seriuosly wtf do yuo expect someone to give you some magic learning technique? Set yourself a bloody plan, go look up learning techniques and bloody practice, how hard can it bloody be?

    No wounder this site has gone to the dogs, this same bloody nonsense questions come up everyday.
    I don't appreciate your rudeness. You could have written a much kinder response.

    I have been drawing for a very long time and I KNOW there are different methods to drawing. I came here because I wanted advice and I have been receiving it from some other awesome members. Im not asking for talent. Im asking for advice. I recommend you take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and pull your head out of your butt because an attitude like that will get you NO WHERE.

    I am applying myself every day and reading many books.

    I asked a simple question asking for some kind words and maybe a point in the right direction, and out of all the wonderful people on this site who actually DO help people, YOU replied. I am disgusted with your personality. I hope you find someone who will make you a better person.

    Once I become better, no thanks to people like you, I plan on helping others.

    Thank you (:

    Have a nice day!

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nusku View Post
    I asked a simple question
    No, you didn't. And if you are looking for kind words, go to your family or people who actually know you, not random strangers on the internet.
    Vague "how do I start" posts only frustrate people, even more so when they have vague, non-descriptive thread titles. We get these literally ALL THE TIME. The only answer to a vague "how do I start" is that you start. If you've been doing the same thing for eight years without improving, then do something different. Sorry, that's it. There is no magic, one-size-fits-all, instantly-makes-anybody-a-great-artist answer.
    You already got the best advice you are going to get here.


    Tristan Elwell
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  9. #7
    thanoss Guest
    OK maybe I came of quite harsh. But man do you really someone to tell you what to do? I mean 8 years of doing something you must know what the fundamentals are that you have to learn, you must know what you have to learn, I just don't understand what you want people to tell you? There are tons and tons of resources on this site and other sites that teach you. Do you want someone to teach you how to learn?.

    This is a clear example of you not knowing how to draw, but not knowing how to learn. Mate I suggest you really do some deep learning and really ask yourself, what you have to learn, why you are learning it, how do the things you are learning relate to what you already know, how can you associate ideas you already know, why is something working the way it does. DO NOT just mindlessly ROTE memorize facts and copy, really start to analyse the way you are looking and seeing, and then really start doing the fundamentals. For you to learn anything it has to mean something to you. Reading a book or watching 10000000 videos on YouTube over and over again wont make any difference, if you cannot incorporate deep learning,and then making it mean something to you, so it stores into your long term memory.

    Do not just mindlessly draw a cube or an ellipse because you have seen a video of someone showing you how to do it. Really start to think about why does the look like that, and then make it mean something, so it stores into you long term memory.

    I think the biggest problem people on this site have is not that they cannot draw or paint, its the fact they do not know how to learn. You really have to do abitof research in learning methods and deep learning.

    THE MAIN THING IS PLANNING, learning how to LEARN then do!!!!

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanoss View Post
    OK maybe I came of quite harsh. But man do you really someone to tell you what to do? I mean 8 years of doing something you must know what the fundamentals are that you have to learn, you must know what you have to learn, I just don't understand what you want people to tell you? There are tons and tons of resources on this site and other sites that teach you. Do you want someone to teach you how to learn?.

    This is a clear example of you not knowing how to draw, but not knowing how to learn. Mate I suggest you really do some deep learning and really ask yourself, what you have to learn, why you are learning it, how do the things you are learning relate to what you already know, how can you associate ideas you already know, why is something working the way it does. DO NOT just mindlessly ROTE memorize facts and copy, really start to analyse the way you are looking and seeing, and then really start doing the fundamentals. For you to learn anything it has to mean something to you. Reading a book or watching 10000000 videos on YouTube over and over again wont make any difference, if you cannot incorporate deep learning,and then making it mean something to you, so it stores into your long term memory.

    Do not just mindlessly draw a cube or an ellipse because you have seen a video of someone showing you how to do it. Really start to think about why does the look like that, and then make it mean something, so it stores into you long term memory.

    I think the biggest problem people on this site have is not that they cannot draw or paint, its the fact they do not know how to learn. You really have to do abitof research in learning methods and deep learning.

    THE MAIN THING IS PLANNING, learning how to LEARN then do!!!!
    Thank you so much. This is all I wanted.

    A lot of people who are new to the site get confused because there are so many resources and tutorials and it just seems like way too much information... There are a lot of great people here and I don't want enemies. I apologize for getting angry and appreciate the reply. At the end of the day, I just want to better myself and help others along the way. I barely just learned what values are last week..

    You actually just gave me some great information and I will apply it.

    Everybody has to start somewhere. If we were all programmed to learn alone then there wouldn't be teachers to guide us!

    Thank you, again. I mean it.

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

  12. #9
    thanoss Guest
    OP, as I think I need to show you something I have been researching about learning, and am now trying to incorporate in teaching myself how to learn again.

    This image is of my whiteboard and a few ideas that may help you understand abit more about deep learning versus shallow surface learning. Now this is not everything about learning etc, junta few notes of mine, but I really hope it can show you and some others more about what deep learning might be and how you might be able to change what you think about when learning. Just look it up on google. At the end of the day its all about practice, but not just practicing as if you were doing a test and ROTE memorisation, you really need to dig deeper, and understand and make it mean something to yourself. this is the only way information gets stored into long term memory.

    EDIT: MAYBE THIS IMAGE NEEDS A STICKY.
    Name:  20130129_123759.jpg
Views: 388
Size:  148.5 KB

    Last edited by thanoss; January 29th, 2013 at 07:51 AM.
     

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    Hey Nusku,

    I'm still a beginner, a real beginner, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I hope this can help you a bit.

    As Elwell explained, we get a lot of "I'm new here!OMG drawing is so scurry! Hold mai hend plz T_T" type of threads, that it gets a little bit frustrating to have to explain things that can be so easily looked up if you take 3 seconds to google.

    But, to be honest, you already answered your question in your own post.
    All it takes to get better is... Practice!



    Though, practice alone will not be good enough. So, to make it even better you just add a dash of... critical attitude!
    When you do your studies from a life and books, look at them with a critical attitude and try to figure out what makes your drawings look off. For instance, is it perspective? Or maybe the proportions are all messed up? Or maybe you got the values completely wrong?

    Or if it's hard to see what's off, maybe try and figure out what you hate the most about drawing.
    For instance, I loath perspective. But the only reason I hate it is because I suck at it! So, if I really want to get better I have to bite the bullet and actually practice perspective.

    Then try to do the study or drawing again and this time applying what you learn from the first drawing. If you keep at it, I'm pretty sure you'll improve somehow even if you don't notice at first.

    And, just a little tip, if you post your work on this message board, be prepared to get feedback that you may not like. But, instead of finding excuses and believing that whatever feedback you got is wrong, try and do something with it. If someone says "do more studies of X", try to do that for a week or more, and see what happens.

    I saw a lot of people leave in a hissy fit after they got (well-deserved) negative (not rude, there's a difference) feedback. But, the ones that stayed and actually did something with it grew to be pretty amazing artists years later (notice how I say years, were talking about 4 to 6).

    You have to remember, that even if some of the comments here can be harsh, most people here genuinely want to help you get better
    Some of them are just a little bit grumpy in their ways, but if you show them you mean it, they'll warm up to you

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebi View Post
    Hey Nusku,

    I'm still a beginner, a real beginner, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But I hope this can help you a bit.

    As Elwell explained, we get a lot of "I'm new here!OMG drawing is so scurry! Hold mai hend plz T_T" type of threads, that it gets a little bit frustrating to have to explain things that can be so easily looked up if you take 3 seconds to google.

    But, to be honest, you already answered your question in your own post.
    All it takes to get better is... Practice!



    Though, practice alone will not be good enough. So, to make it even better you just add a dash of... critical attitude!
    When you do your studies from a life and books, look at them with a critical attitude and try to figure out what makes your drawings look off. For instance, is it perspective? Or maybe the proportions are all messed up? Or maybe you got the values completely wrong?

    Or if it's hard to see what's off, maybe try and figure out what you hate the most about drawing.
    For instance, I loath perspective. But the only reason I hate it is because I suck at it! So, if I really want to get better I have to bite the bullet and actually practice perspective.

    Then try to do the study or drawing again and this time applying what you learn from the first drawing. If you keep at it, I'm pretty sure you'll improve somehow even if you don't notice at first.

    And, just a little tip, if you post your work on this message board, be prepared to get feedback that you may not like. But, instead of finding excuses and believing that whatever feedback you got is wrong, try and do something with it. If someone says "do more studies of X", try to do that for a week or more, and see what happens.

    I saw a lot of people leave in a hissy fit after they got (well-deserved) negative (not rude, there's a difference) feedback. But, the ones that stayed and actually did something with it grew to be pretty amazing artists years later (notice how I say years, were talking about 4 to 6).

    You have to remember, that even if some of the comments here can be harsh, most people here genuinely want to help you get better
    Some of them are just a little bit grumpy in their ways, but if you show them you mean it, they'll warm up to you
    I plan on growing and becoming a great artist! Nothing is going to stop me. Thank you all for the advice.

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanoss View Post
    OP, as I think I need to show you something I have been researching about learning, and am now trying to incorporate in teaching myself how to learn again.

    This image is of my whiteboard and a few ideas that may help you understand abit more about deep learning versus shallow surface learning. Now this is not everything about learning etc, junta few notes of mine, but I really hope it can show you and some others more about what deep learning might be and how you might be able to change what you think about when learning. Just look it up on google. At the end of the day its all about practice, but not just practicing as if you were doing a test and ROTE memorisation, you really need to dig deeper, and understand and make it mean something to yourself. this is the only way information gets stored into long term memory.

    EDIT: MAYBE THIS IMAGE NEEDS A STICKY.
    Name:  20130129_123759.jpg
Views: 388
Size:  148.5 KB
    I need to buy a white board! lol

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

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    My suggestion would be that you work on what you see you need the most. What is the first thing you notice when you look at your own art? What annoys you the most?
    If you really suck at Perspectives, work on construction.
    If you really suck at anatomy, work on anatomy.

    Know what subjects you like to draw and try to incorporate those in your exercises to make them more enjoyable.
    Also, don't quit your day job. Practice in your free time. Since you live at your parents place you should have more than enough time to practice every day even when you have a normal 8 hour job.
    If you live fairly close by your job. Say for the sake of examples, 30 minutes, you should still have at least a good 7 hours.

     

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    You need a goal so you can gauge how things are going. I mean a specific goal, the more specific the better! Like understand the structure of a nose, or using ellipses accurately, or how to draw cute puppy cartoons, or how to show form with only three values etc

    Once you have a goal you can set yourself tasks from life, imagination, books or whatever else that will push you forward. Then you can post your results and get help from people here. Specific help.

    So pick something, work on it and post it.

    Also when asking questions try and empathise with the people who would help you. How would you react to a post title like "hmmm"? What sort of questions are easier for you to give tangible help?

    -----------------------------------------
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    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...234403&page=10
     

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    Based on your sketchbook, draw from observation a lot, study basic perspective, I see Loomis fun with pencil that's good. Keep doing those.

     

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    I felt the same way back in 2004 and so I payed someone to teach me how to draw. I had been drawing since I was 1 years old, digitally painting since I was 11 on MS Paint, and I had a great public art education up through highschool before the art departments were gutted, and never stopped drawing and painting and learning new technology. The old masters began training at 5 years old.

    It may be that you have stunted learning ability because you didn't start early enough. In that case what you need to do is find a rigorous and intensive atelier based in the European Academic tradition, which will put you on the fast track towards elevating your draftsmanship skills until they are perfect. 5 years should be all you need to draw at a comprehensive level. After ten years of study at the atelier you will be considered a master in your own right, if you want to go into Fine Arts/Gallery work.

    After this, if you want to continue on to Concept Art in the entertainment industry you will need to join TAd. Before TAd existed you just had to hang out on Conceptart.org, pretty much. Some people can certainly skip draftsmanship training at a proper atelier but they already understand drawing, from your explanations, you don't.

    This is what I would do if I was in your shoes.

    They say the art career path is like learning to be a doctor, except without all of the cool perks of you know, having a ton of money all the time and being respected universally.

    Last edited by Izi; January 29th, 2013 at 02:09 PM.
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    Ok, I want to ask what exactly you did in those 8 years? Show me the bodywork. I dont want to sound like a skeptical ass but lots of people out there rarely do anything more than half hour random sketching for sunday morning and then scream for "I did try so hard but it's useless".

    <<<I R LUMINA R I>>>

    How I eat pen everyday aka ma Sketchbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fxEVo View Post
    Ok, I want to ask what exactly you did in those 8 years? Show me the bodywork. I dont want to sound like a skeptical ass but lots of people out there rarely do anything more than half hour random sketching for sunday morning and then scream for "I did try so hard but it's useless".
    Maybe this is better:

    Since I was a child, I'd try to mimic cartoon characters from a disney book. After a while I thought, hey, I suck. Why keep going?
    Few years pass by, im in middle school drawing class and in detention and finishing my drawings when I come home. did that throughout middle school.
    High school comes along, I draw in class. Draw in detention. Draw after school. Now I draw when I have nothing to do. You may think, "Oh, thats probably 30 minutes every sunday" but you sir, are wrong because I am unemployed and am not going to school (for now).

    I do plan on applying for art classes.

    Just because I draw a lot doesn't mean I'm good or have work worth showing. I just love drawing. Im not good at it. So yeah. I've been drawing most of my life. I didn't say I was great, and even if I did, I was just asking for help.

    Every child doodles.
    Every teenager doodles...
    I grew up 'doodling' most of my life. I just recently started taking art seriously and practicing.
    maybe that will clear things up for you...

    Thanks for your concern!

    I haven't slept yet so excuse me if I seem a bit grumpy.
    I woke up yesterday at ~5 pm. Took a shit, drank some water and ate some food. Sat down at my computer, checked my sketchbook thread and another forum, and met some new people in a google hangout that draw! They showed me some techniques, we drew on cam, had a blast. After 4 hours of drawing and talking, they went to bed. I decided to stay up and draw an eye fish thing.. smoke some hookah, watch a little doctor who, and might draw in a few minutes! I am here for learning and making friends!

    "The remarkable thing about going through a disheartening session is that the student is very often on the threshold of marvelous discovery" - Jack Hamm
    >>SKYPE! "xNusku"
    >>SketchBook HERE!
     

  29. #19
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    OK we're done with this thread. You don't want to post art. Then we don't have to continue this discussion or sob story or whatever the hell have you because you decided to post because you're grumpy.

     

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