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    Iris

    Okay, I've been working on this for some time, working out as many problems as I could by myself. This is still just the sketch phase and I've changed things multiple times. Please bear in mind that the lighting isn't done completely here as that'll be on the next layer. This is currently acrylic on canvas, next will be oils. Is there anything glaringly obvious left I've missed?

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    I guess the shoulder of the arm grabbing the leg should perhaps jut a bit more forward since right now her arm looks to me to be a bit lanky I also believe you missed out on the land mark produced by the clavicles. I am not so sure if this is much of a concern but I am not exactly sure what she is doing with the other arm and I THINK that she maybe slightly off balance. Overall I like the look of the piece as well as the composition and most of it was me nit-picking with my poor observational skills .

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    I'd be careful with her left knee. It looks a bit too much like a plate. It should blend in more smoothly with the rest of the leg, and I think we should see more of the underlying bone structure. The same goes for the other one, but it's not as apparent there. I think it would help if her left hand held something to explain why it's up in the air like that. Perhaps a stalk or a leaf.

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    I agree, the knees are a bit nobbly, where they could be more streamlined. also rule of thumb with daisy type flowers, theres always a line that runs from the tip through the middle of the base to the centre of the flower structure. theyre a bit wobbly atm. I would edit her front teeth down a bit, but i remember them from the previous image so i guess thats just accuracy to the model. still, maybe knock them back a bit to flatter your subject. doesnt have to be warts and all.

    Its jolly nice tho.

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    This is looking good.

    The giant daisies at lower right feel like they're overwhelming the picture compositionally--and as V. Kendall notes, they're also sort of awkward and asymmetrical. Given the overall scale of detail on the rest of the picture, I'd consider replacing them with something less...blunt and aggressive. Probably a collection of smaller and more delicate forms.

    As for the figure: her pose feels a bit cramped and uncomfortable, but I'm not sure if that's just because your foreshortening is a bit clumsy at the moment. If it were me, I'd go in with some kind of drawing tool (Prismacolor wax pencils work well for this, and don't bleed through too much when painted over with oils) and really nail down the contours before proceeding. There's just a million places here where closer observation of your reference photo will "sell" the 3D form much better than is happening now.

    As always, just my two cents.

     

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    Thanks guys

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikazel33t View Post
    I guess the shoulder of the arm grabbing the leg should perhaps jut a bit more forward since right now her arm looks to me to be a bit lanky I also believe you missed out on the land mark produced by the clavicles. I am not so sure if this is much of a concern but I am not exactly sure what she is doing with the other arm and I THINK that she maybe slightly off balance. Overall I like the look of the piece as well as the composition and most of it was me nit-picking with my poor observational skills .
    The wrist looks like it needs more work and that might sort out the arm problem. Her clavicle isn't prominent, but that whole shoulder is badly toned.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    I'd be careful with her left knee. It looks a bit too much like a plate. It should blend in more smoothly with the rest of the leg, and I think we should see more of the underlying bone structure. The same goes for the other one, but it's not as apparent there. I think it would help if her left hand held something to explain why it's up in the air like that. Perhaps a stalk or a leaf.
    The knee should be sorted on the next layer. As to the raised arm, it sort of raises questions and that I like. Everytime I tried to change it, it just looked wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I agree, the knees are a bit nobbly, where they could be more streamlined. also rule of thumb with daisy type flowers, theres always a line that runs from the tip through the middle of the base to the centre of the flower structure. theyre a bit wobbly atm. I would edit her front teeth down a bit, but i remember them from the previous image so i guess thats just accuracy to the model. still, maybe knock them back a bit to flatter your subject. doesnt have to be warts and all.
    The daisy lines will be sorted on next layer. This is still the rough drawing. Saves image for additional reference. I will tone the teeth down. Agreed - this isn't a portrait and I'm not a slave to the reference and will push it more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo View Post
    This is looking good.

    The giant daisies at lower right feel like they're overwhelming the picture compositionally--and as V. Kendall notes, they're also sort of awkward and asymmetrical. Given the overall scale of detail on the rest of the picture, I'd consider replacing them with something less...blunt and aggressive. Probably a collection of smaller and more delicate forms.

    As for the figure: her pose feels a bit cramped and uncomfortable, but I'm not sure if that's just because your foreshortening is a bit clumsy at the moment. If it were me, I'd go in with some kind of drawing tool (Prismacolor wax pencils work well for this, and don't bleed through too much when painted over with oils) and really nail down the contours before proceeding. There's just a million places here where closer observation of your reference photo will "sell" the 3D form much better than is happening now.

    As always, just my two cents.
    I'll be bringing the flesh up a lot more and knocking the flowers down. I'm 2 hours away from an art shop.

    Just to show you where I'm going (and this is a portrait - same girl) this is a study I did to help me with this picture and try stuff. I've just started colouring, but you should get the gist. Took me ages to get this stage as well.

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    If I get a snow day tomorrow I'll work on the suggestions otherwise it'll be next weekend.


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    I like the nostalgic look you got going here. I especially like her face and intense expression and the flowers in the background. As some of the other posters mentioned I think that it looks very strange the way she holds up her arm like that. It looks a bit like an awkvard wave. A more relaxed position would probably be better or as suggested give her something to hold in her hand. I also think that the daisys are dominating the picture to much and creates a large, bright squarish shape in the corner.

     

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    Right I decided to tackle most of the suggestions digitally to see how things would work out. I'm probably only going to change the hand on the picture and deal with the rest on the next layer. so please bear with me. It's a pretty bad digital rendition, but I hope you get the gist. BTW, she will have more of a smile and not look so fierce.

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    sorry i dont like the new hand at all.

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    Worse than before eh? Would you change it at all? - this is why I'm mucking around digitally first.


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    yep one sec, im doing a horrible PO.

    meantime this ight be of interest. BACKWARDS WORLD!!!!

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    ok this totally sucks, but i tried to de-Goldblumise her face a little and give her hand something to do.. need ELwell or someone to help with the anatomy, its a whole world i know jack about.
    put whatever up where the darwin bust is, maybe a big vase, maybe a mans calf, i dunno.


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    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; January 22nd, 2013 at 01:28 PM.
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    Would the jug at the bottom enlarged be better? Maybe have the water running doing her arm. It's meant to be Grecian, but I could do more research. Goldblum? Gee, thanks. (You are so dead - he's a friend so it's okay.)

    My reference might have something to say about that .

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    Or maybe not...

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    It's very messy but here is what I would have done.
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    Here are a couple quick visual suggestions for the upper legs and hip area, as well as her right arm. I bent her left hand to lightly grasp the leaf.

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    ok i did a hybrid of bills and mine. i like fridas a lot too its got a good noir novel vibe. very ray chandler
    her face looks a bit white, but i think the whole body could do with bringing up a bit in the next layer, to differentiate it from the background. and then at the end full dark the background as needed.

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    I just keep thinking that she's going to tip right over... I think Frida's idea solved that (also Velocity's big head). Not sure how those would fit but *something* has to be done :-)

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    Let's see if this helps.

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    That could work with a little refinement. It certainly makes the gesture with the arm look more purpose full.

     

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    If it's grecian style, you can give her a spear or something like a bow... She will looks like Diane, godess of the nature and hunt ? Or maybe just a deer head (alive ! not a trophee), with the hand reaching the nose or something ?

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    Hmm, you can't go wrong with a pillar!
    Perhaps if you change the hand to holding a flower, that might work, ties the foreground to the background some more (EDIT: that hand I drew is pants!)
    Boost the lights a little?
    Actually see OP.
    Still not sure on the legs…

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    Venger, you've given me a few ideas. Thanks a lot. Major surgery coming up in a couple of days.


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    Hello. I like the picture! But the reason, I think, that the left arm is looking a bit weird is because it is conflicting with her otherwise relaxed pose. If you relax your own arm in the same manner as the model and move it around your own head, you'll find that your thumb points toward your face. On your picture, the girls thumb is pointing directly outward (if you take into consideration that the elbows location is slightly closer to the camera). If you try to replicate the pose yourself, you'll find that this is really hard to do (I can't even manage to do it). So, what this does is it makes the picture look tense.
    The same is true with the right leg as well (though I'm not as sure with this one). The upper leg looks a bit tense but the foot is totally relaxed.
    That's just my two cents anyway... I guess what I'm saying is, try to make the same pose as your character in real life to see if it works. If it feels weird to do it, then it probably looks a bit weird on paper as well. Whatever adjustments you feel you have to do in real life, try to do them on paper then as well.

    Lastly, I feel like you want the face to be the focal point so I'd focus a bit on the shadowing of the face because right now it's not coherent with the shadowing of everything else. The surroundings suggest dim lights but the face has sharp shadows. I'd make them a little softer right away so you don't have to make those kind of really big adjustments later. Also, I'd add some value difference on the left side of her face (her right side) because it looks a bit flat at the moment.

    Anyway, I hope I could be of some help. I'm not used to giving critique so I hope I didn't come across as mean. I really do like the picture. The overall idea is very appealing I think. Good luck

     

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    No worries Mikael. Fine tuning the values will come in the next few layers. This is just getting the composition and sketch correct.

    Major surgery time. I decided the asters weren't working, so am in the middle of obliterating them. The column is a bit wonky and needs to be straightened out but I hope the gist is there. Now, what to put in her hand. I'll work on some stuff digitally as I was thinking more a light ball.

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    careful the light ball with affect all your shadows.. i like the partially obscured asters, makes it easier on they eye alright.

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    Yeah, I'll take my time with it. More work done. Just remember a ton of the subtle shading will be done when I crack the oils out.

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    Her pose & anatomy doesn't look right, her leg is far too high up and she would be very uncomfortable even if she could pull that position off. Just an idea below for the pose, nothing else. The OP is far from perfect but you get my gist. Also, her mouth, close it, I think the angle of her mouth & face are different. I think Bill618's paintover was pretty good, you should look at that.

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    Repainted the legs - I do get round to things, even if they're a bit dark at the moment and not as extreme as Bill's. Brought the flower, top right, forward a bit (needs to appear more so) and have a few petals caressing the hand. Feet need refining and the rest of the flowers.

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    That butt really needs to go down

    In your current pose, the only way the breasts can come that close to knees is if she'd be fully curled up - like in paschimottanasana. In that case we would look at the ribcage almost from the top (superior), not frontally (anterior) like it is painted now. The head would then fully overlap the ribcage.

    Here's my take on the pose. I tried to keep the head/ribcage situation similar to what you already have, although I think the upper torso is a bit stiff and too symmetrical:

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    I'd suggest more repose-y type of situation. This would, however, involve repainting the head:

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    In both cases, her right knee can be lifted up for additional tension in the right arm, if desired.

    You should also introduce some foreshortening to the arms. Currently you have fly-swatted Egyptian arms. It looks a bit schematic compared to strong perspective of the legs.

    Awkwardly positioned left hand needs to go too. The best ulna/radius can do is to rotate the palm towards the viewer. Additional outward rotation would be highly uncomfortable, or would need involvement of the shoulder joint. The latter would effectively move the elbow out of the weight supporting position.

    I understand this is sort of an underpainting, but it'd be good to already plan more value differentiation between figure and the background. On the following adjustment I made light values on the figure more prominent, while keeping the background values low with occasional brighter accent:

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    Hope this was at least somewhat helpful.

     

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    Your post made me go back to my reference. Her right (our left) boob area is too much to the front. Her head isn't as looking up as I'd hoped.

    Here's my ref. It's not the most flattering picture of her as you can see below. (She's okay with me showing her pictures - I had to ask.) Red line is over the photo, green line is over the painting. I'll leave the longer leg, extend the tucked under foot, move boob to show more side and repaint the face. I'd rather get it right now than later.

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    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
     

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