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  1. #391
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    Kimonas-thanks kimonas,there is no need to be intimidated as this stuff is the acumulated over more than two months ,in reality I don't do much drawing these days.

    TimothyDuBay-I mostly just do it freehand and approximate but the tomb sketch has a basic perspective grid using the x multiplication method of a square-
    you can learn everything I know from scott robertsons book how to draw,also there are two books called framed perspective which you can alternatively check out(I havnt yet but they look really good).
    I dont follow a particular proccess but just use the techniqus in the how to draw book as I need them.

    Rist-Thanks

    Okapi-Thanks man!,you are right my environment look very boxy constucted.

    Sparekiss-noble is not a word that I would ever describe myself nor would you if you knew me hehe...I always start stuff and pussy out of them,
    Its probably a fear of failure that stops me,doing these studies leaves me in my little nice and stagnant comfort zone.
    hopefully I will grow some balls soon.


    diamandis-Thanks dude,you just need a dip pen and some ink,good scripts to start are italic and foundational,if you want
    to learn a fast writing script(italic can be used for cursive writing but is not that fast) you can study spencerian(there is a good series of thin workbooks on amazon) or copperplate for which you will need an oblique pen holder.

    a wip model and a sketch:


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  4. #392
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    Is the 3D thing also from Akira? I was gonna do Kaneda's bike at some point, don't think I'll ever get around to it

    Since you seem to like both 3D and painting, have you thought about going into enviro and/or vehicle design that combines the two? Here's two of my favorite peeps, for example:
    https://www.artstation.com/artist/moonworker
    https://www.artstation.com/artist/fmacmanus

  5. #393
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    Thanks for the links,saved them on my account.
    it is the bike from the sewer scene in akira,sorry for forgetting to mention it.
    I am going back to drawing and painting after this one probably.

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  6. #394
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    Cool stuff! How do you get the cutlines on the cylinder? Did you manually subdivide then extrude/model and go from there? I'm just wondering if there's a faster way ie if you have a mech with lots of cutlines that would get super tedious. Also have you heard of hard ops plugin? It helps speed up beveling and chamfers.

  7. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshaft View Post
    Cool stuff! How do you get the cutlines on the cylinder? Did you manually subdivide then extrude/model and go from there? I'm just wondering if there's a faster way ie if you have a mech with lots of cutlines that would get super tedious. Also have you heard of hard ops plugin? It helps speed up beveling and chamfers.
    This was done with hard ops actually.I usually dont use it because it doesnt really work well with the subdiv modifier
    and you have to kinda fix weird junk geometry. But this model has really simple shapes so it worked ok.
    by cutlines you mean the thin panel lines? I just select an edge loop and bevel it then I extrude the polygon loop created and scale in,then I mark the boundaries sharp and use the edge split modifier. Or in this case
    I used the hard ops ss-sharps and csharp mode to mark the bevelled edges which have similar results.
    For the geometry wrapping the cylinder I used booleans and then cleaned the geometry a bit,for the indents on the cylinder I used the knife project tool.

  8. #396
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    Holy shit man those Frazetta studies are beautiful! Your line work reminds me a lot of Jeff Watts. Keep it up, can't wait to see more

  9. #397
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    Really liking the Egyptian theme pics. Would love to see more of those.

  10. #398
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    Thanks guys!
    I am working on an architecture matte painting/3d mash up illustration thing but for now here are some quick life studies in charcoal.
    I really should do more of these but with try a longer timeframe as my observational drawing could really use some improvement.


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  12. #399
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    fuuuuuuck.


    incredible stuff dude, It gives me that punch in the gut feeling. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Only a little angry at you at them moment....

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  14. #400
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    Name:  Composite_12.jpg
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    a wip-tried to combine some 3d with 2d and photo bashing,doesnt look really seemless and I really got sloppy at some areas.
    crits are welcome.

  15. #401
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    Oooh that is nice. I like the comp and the lighting, but it's very obvious that there is still some rendered lighting in there. IMO a really quick fix would be to correct the colour of the bounce light first - the stones are clearly a warm colour in the light, and there's a lot of light getting inside there to bounce off the walls, and remembering the rules of bounce light (warm light on a warm colour becomes more saturated), you should really see more orange inside. This is a really quick and ham-fisted PO but you get the idea. It also helps emphasise the depth between the (warm) foreground and the (cool) distant hills.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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  17. #402
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    Coolio. Is the roof above the columns cracking because it's old, or is that just how it's designed? If it's old and crumbling, I think there should be more signs of the place falling apart here and there--more rubble, more overgrown weeds / plant life, etc.

    Re: the integration of 3D/2D/photobashing not being seamless, I can't even tell. The columns are more detailed than other stuff, and the hills show off the photo texture, but it looks fine to me.

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  19. #403
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    Name:  1dabcnty.jpg
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    Hey man great work. I did a rough paint over fixing some things. I didn't paint in everything bc that would be too much work. Here's some crit:

    -For concept art the industry uses 16:9 ratios for environments. Your ratio was pretty much a square which is kind of boring.

    -The piece had no story or focal and lots of empty space. I added some people discussing/overlooking a besieged tower of some sort. Those boxes can be horses etc.

    -Needs more repeated shapes for scale and depth

    -Avoid using similar proportions. It looks too noisy and predictable.

    -The temple needs a "base". Your columns simply stand on the gravel which doesn't make sense froman architectural view.

    -The roof relief things are too noisy. Try a simpler pattern with more gaps and negative space.

    -Cracks and damage need more reference. They look more like drought. Look at damaged concrete stairs etc. They should also have depth ie some cracks are deeper than others

    -Also if the ground is crumpling then the base of the pillars should have chunks missing too

    Anyways I could go on but this is a good start. Keep going! Super jelly of your blender skills btw.

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  21. #404
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    Nice studies GrayPersona!
    I liked your gouache studies, they are nice, I wanna to try goauche too.
    Do you know some book on this subject?


    Are you studying on Watts Atelier?

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  23. #405
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    Dave MacLeod-Thanks for the paintover dude,I think what threw you off is that the light is warm in some areas but cool on others(on the floor)
    but the the shadow is the same color on the columns and the floor,I originaly made the material neutral colored and poped an hdri image with a neutral
    key light and a cool fill light which resulted in the color you see in the shadow but I played with direct light color and made it warmer without really deciding if it
    was the color of the light or the local color of the columns -if its the latter I should have made the shadow side of the columns warmer if it is the former I should
    have made all the areas with light a lot warmer.I still think I want to keep the seperation of cool shadows and warms lights across the image though as the warm light
    doesnt really bounce that much in the shadow and you see more the blue light from the sky on the grey building.


    diamandis-yeah man it was meant to be old and falling apart,I totally messed up with the design of the building,should have made it with a brick bump texture
    and added some mossy elements in there in the 3d phase as well as breaking up the columns.I learned that it is not easy to paint over a 3d render and achieve the same
    detail that the computer does,it imediately starts to look tempered with(at least with my skills at the moment).


    crankshaft-thanks for the paintover man!I think its a bit late to change the aspect ratio of the image as I have 50 layers and various selectiones
    that need to be adjusted,there is also plenty examples of square images that work compositionaly(maybe not this one hehe) but I try
    to avoid formulaic thinking(you have to do x because that is how everyone churns out their work),especially for a personal piece.
    I agree about the cracks being not realistic and the other things you mentioned though!

    wfmarcelo-I used gurney gouache in the wild tutorial from gumroad,also check out arkhamalien's post about ghouache on this thread a few pages back.

    A little update- I reached the point where I am no longer productive and just hate looking at this,I will take a break from this and continue to chip away at
    this little by little with your critiques in mind between other stuff.

    Name:  Composite_14.jpg
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    Last edited by GrayPersona; July 16th, 2017 at 09:38 PM.

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  25. #406
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    Yo. You asked about Photoshop tricks, in my SB. I didn't learn any of the stuff I know from Ctrl+Paint, but instead from being a graphic designer, doing photo editing, etc. A lot of it I picked up from random sources online over the years, and from experimenting on my own. Photoshop is huge, and there's no way to cover everything I know, which is probably only like 20% of what it can do anyway. Here's a list of some of the most important stuff I use, w/ links to Adobe help files. If you already know a bunch of this stuff, sorry. But I didn't want to miss anything important. I'm arranging these in order of what to learn first:


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  27. #407
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    Damn, those are some helpful links. Just commenting here so I can find this again in the future!

  28. #408
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    you should post your gouache studies and tell me what you're having trouble with. I bet i could probably help you.

  29. #409
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    okay Grey, check out my sketchbook, thank me later.

  30. #410
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    Can't believe I've never checked out your sketchbook before, maybe I have a long time ago but I didn't recognize anything. You have some really great work in here and a fantastic amount of studies. I'll be back when you post again to say something a bit more useful on work that is more recent so it's not useless information.
    My Sketchbook
    Connect with me on Artstation

  31. #411
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    Hey Gray! Thanks so much for the Blender tips! Lol I'm just going to follow your steps in learning the software. One question, I bought the addons you suggested and I can't get the smart select to work. I'm using my tablet and tried re configuring the settings around and still nothing. It only works for use with the mouse (?)

  32. #412
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    I was going to wait till you'd updated so that I could post more Photoshop tricks, but what the hell, here's a grab bag of misc things that I've thought to let you know about since my original post above, and I'm sure other peeps will find useful:


    • If you've got the Brush tool active, the control bar area along the top of the Photoshop UI has a drop-down menu available called "Mode," which lets you switch the blend mode of the current brush, along with some other cool things like "Clear" (makes it so the brush erases instead of painting) and "Behind" (lets you paint behind the existing pixels on your current layer, as if you were painting on a layer behind the current layer). There's a secret shortcut to bringing up this menu at your cursor: have the Brush tool active and then hold Shift and right-click somewhere on your canvas.
    • Say you've got a group in your layer stack, and in this group are multiple layers representing a character in your composition, or a building, or something. And say you want to use an adjustment layer to test some changes to values/colors on just the layers in that group, without affecting the rest of your composition. One way to do this is to add a mask to the layer group itself, where the mask boundaries are the boundaries of your character/building/object/whatever. But a trick for accomplishing the same thing more quickly is to change the layer group's blend mode. By default, when creating a layer group, its blend mode (seen in the blend mode drop-down menu at the top of the Layers palette) is set to "Pass Through." If you change the mode to "Normal" instead, and then create an adjustment layer within the group, that adjustment layer affects only the layers within the group, leaving layers outside the group untouched.
    • Related to the above, if you want to have an adjustment layer affect only one individual layer, the simple solution is to make the adjustment layer a clipping layer (see my earlier post).
    • If you're using Curves or Levels to try to adjust the values of something, but find that you're affecting the saturation/chroma of your colors too much and want to instead focus specifically on values, create a Curves/Levels adjustment layer, and then set that adjustment layer's blend mode to Luminosity (instead of Normal).
    • If you're painting some special effects (glows, light streaks, etc) on a layer above other layers, and you set the blend mode of this effects layer to one of the more exotic options like Color Dodge or Linear Dodge, and you find that the layer isn't blending quite the way you'd expect, especially in the semi-transparent areas, then you can do one of two things to fix it: 1) right-click your layer in the Layers palette, choose Blending Options, then in the dialog box that comes up, look in the "Advanced Blending" area and uncheck "Transparency Shapes Layer," then hit OK; or 2) change your effects layer's blend mode back to Normal, put this layer inside a new layer group, and then change the blend mode of the group itself to your desired blend mode (Color Dodge, etc). Either method has the same result: blending now works correctly. Method 2 is useful when you have multiple effects layers--just dump them all into the group. (This stuff might be hard to understand without seeing it, so here's a demonstration.)
    • If you turn on Caps Lock, your brush cursor becomes a cross-hair. This is useful sometimes when the default brush-bounds cursor gets in your way.
    • If you find there are certain actions you perform repeatedly (creating a new layer, merging down the selected layer, merging all selected layers, etc), you can automate the steps to perform them by using the Actions palette to create actions for them, and then--this is the helpful part--assign F-key shortcuts to them, and/or turn on button mode for the Actions palette. For help w/ specifics for this stuff, look up the Actions help file for Photoshop. Examples of two useful actions I have are "undo 15" and "redo 15." These jump back/forward 15 steps in the history. For example, I made the "undo 15" one by creating a new action, hitting record, then going to the History palette and jumping back exactly 15 steps, then stopping the recording. This lets me jump back 15 steps instantly (aka, it doesn't undo each individual step one by one). I assigned these to F5 and F8, which correspond to the rewind and fast forward buttons on my keyboard (ehehe). I also have a shortcut for flipping the canvas horizontally, to see it with fresh eyes.
    • Solid Color layers: these are really useful and versatile. Go to the "Create new fill or adjustment layer" button at the bottom of your Layers palette (the little circle that looks like a yin-yang), and in the pop-up menu, hit Solid Color. This creates a layer with a color swatch as its thumbnail, and an attached mask. Hit the D key on your keyboard to set your toolbox's foreground/background swatches to black and white. If you paint in the mask with white, the color in the thumbnail shows through on your canvas. If you paint with black, the color goes away. (The full grayscale range works inside the mask, as in all masks.) Hit the X key to swap between having black vs. white as your active color (aka, paint (white) vs. erase (black)). If you double-click the color swatch thumbnail of the solid color layer in the Layers palette, you get a color picker, and changing the color here changes it in real-time, on your canvas. I use these for so many things: sketching lines, playing with flat color fills, etc.
    • Mask tricks: if you've got a mask active on a given layer (aka, you've clicked on the mask thumbnail), Alt/Option+Delete fills it with your foreground color (useful for blacking / whiting out the entire mask); Ctrl/Cmd+i will invert the mask's values; if you have a marching-ants selection active, and you activate a given layer's mask and hit Alt/Option+Delete, it'll fill the selected area of the mask with your foreground color; Ctrl/Cmd+click on a given layer's thumbnail to create a marching-ants selection from the pixels in that layer; Ctrl/Cmd+Shift clicking subsequent layer thumbnails will add to your existing marching-ants selection; Alt/Option+clicking a layer mask's thumbnail will show you the contents of the mask on your canvas (aka, show you the grayscale contents of the mask); to paste pixels you've copied from your canvas directly into a mask, copy your desired pixels, Alt/Option-click on a mask's thumbnail to display the mask's contents on the canvas, then hit Ctrl/Cmd+Alt/Option+Shift+V to do a "paste in place" operation, which pastes the pixels you copied in their original position, but directly into your active mask instead of into a layer.
    • To rotate the view of your canvas while you're working, so that making certain strokes is easier etc, tap the R key on your keyboard to get the Rotate View tool, and drag across your canvas to rotate. The smarter way to use this is to hold the R key, drag to rotate, then release the R key, which automatically returns you to the tool you were previously using (the Brush, etc). To reset the rotation of your canvas back to normal, hit the Esc key.
    • To have a live thumbnail view of your composition while working, in addition to your zoomed-in canvas, do one of two things: 1) go to the main menu item Window > Arrange > New Window for [filename], which will create an additional Photoshop window for your current document, which you can leave zoomed out, and which will update as you paint in your main window; or 2) use the Navigator palette as your thumbnail (but the red outline can be distracting).


    Purists and alla-prima diehards will scoff at this stuff, and I don't really use them all that much myself if I'm actually trying to paint, but let's not kid ourselves: the old masters would've murdered you and your entire family for the chance to play with Photoshop's tools for even a single day.

    (edited to add stuff)
    Last edited by diamandis; September 30th, 2017 at 09:10 PM.

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  34. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis View Post
    I was going to wait till you'd updated so that I could post more Photoshop tricks, but what the hell, here's a grab bag of misc things that I've thought to let you know about since my original post above, and I'm sure other peeps will find useful:


    • If you've got the Brush tool active, the control bar area along the top of the Photoshop UI has a drop-down menu available called "Mode," which lets you switch the blend mode of the current brush, along with some other cool things like "Clear" (makes it so the brush erases instead of painting) and "Behind" (lets you paint behind the existing pixels on your current layer, as if you were painting on a layer behind the current layer). There's a secret shortcut to bringing up this menu at your cursor: have the Brush tool active and then hold Shift and right-click somewhere on your canvas.
    • Say you've got a group in your layer stack, and in this group are multiple layers representing a character in your composition, or a building, or something. And say you want to use an adjustment layer to test some changes to values/colors on just the layers in that group, without affecting the rest of your composition. One way to do this is to add a mask to the layer group itself, where the mask boundaries are the boundaries of your character/building/object/whatever. But a trick for accomplishing the same thing more quickly is to change the layer group's blend mode. By default, when creating a layer group, its blend mode (seen in the blend mode drop-down menu at the top of the Layers palette) is set to "Pass Through." If you change the mode to "Normal" instead, and then create an adjustment layer within the group, that adjustment layer affects only the layers within the group, leaving layers outside the group untouched.
    • Related to the above, if you want to have an adjustment layer affect only one individual layer, the simple solution is to make the adjustment layer a clipping layer (see my earlier post).
    • If you're using Curves or Levels to try to adjust the values of something, but find that you're affecting the saturation/chroma of your colors too much and want to instead focus specifically on values, create a Curves/Levels adjustment layer, and then set that adjustment layer's blend mode to Luminosity (instead of Normal).
    • If you're painting some special effects (glows, light streaks, etc) on a layer above other layers, and you set the blend mode of this effects layer to one of the more exotic options like Color Dodge or Linear Dodge, and you find that the layer isn't blending quite the way you'd expect, especially in the semi-transparent areas, then you can do one of two things to fix it: 1) right-click your layer in the Layers palette, choose Blending Options, then in the dialog box that comes up, look in the "Advanced Blending" area and uncheck "Transparency Shapes Layer," then hit OK; or 2) change your effects layer's blend mode back to Normal, put this layer inside a new layer group, and then change the blend mode of the group itself to your desired blend mode (Color Dodge, etc). Either method has the same result: blending now works correctly. Method 2 is useful when you have multiple effects layers--just dump them all into the group. (This stuff might be hard to understand without seeing it, so here's a demonstration.)
    • If you turn on Caps Lock, your brush cursor becomes a cross-hair. This is useful sometimes when the default brush-bounds cursor gets in your way.
    • If you find there are certain actions you perform repeatedly (creating a new layer, merging down the selected layer, merging all selected layers, etc), you can automate the steps to perform them by using the Actions palette to create actions for them, and then--this is the helpful part--assign F-key shortcuts to them, and/or turn on button mode for the Actions palette. For help w/ specifics for this stuff, look up the Actions help file for Photoshop. Examples of two useful actions I have are "undo 15" and "redo 15." These jump back/forward 15 steps in the history. For example, I made the "undo 15" one by creating a new action, hitting record, then going to the History palette and jumping back exactly 15 steps, then stopping the recording. This lets me jump back 15 steps instantly (aka, it doesn't undo each individual step one by one). I assigned these to F5 and F8, which correspond to the rewind and fast forward buttons on my keyboard (ehehe). I also have a shortcut for flipping the canvas horizontally, to see it with fresh eyes.
    • Solid Color layers: these are really useful and versatile. Go to the "Create new fill or adjustment layer" button at the bottom of your Layers palette (the little circle that looks like a yin-yang), and in the pop-up menu, hit Solid Color. This creates a layer with a color swatch as its thumbnail, and an attached mask. Hit the D key on your keyboard to set your toolbox's foreground/background swatches to black and white. If you paint in the mask with white, the color in the thumbnail shows through on your canvas. If you paint with black, the color goes away. (The full grayscale range works inside the mask, as in all masks.) Hit the X key to swap between having black vs. white as your active color (aka, paint (white) vs. erase (black)). If you double-click the color swatch thumbnail of the solid color layer in the Layers palette, you get a color picker, and changing the color here changes it in real-time, on your canvas. I use these for so many things: sketching lines, playing with flat color fills, etc.
    • Mask tricks: if you've got a mask active on a given layer (aka, you've clicked on the mask thumbnail), Alt/Option+Delete fills it with your foreground color (useful for blacking / whiting out the entire mask); Ctrl/Cmd+i will invert the mask's values; if you have a marching-ants selection active, and you activate a given layer's mask and hit Alt/Option+Delete, it'll fill the selected area of the mask with your foreground color; Ctrl/Cmd+click on a given layer's thumbnail to create a marching-ants selection from the pixels in that layer; Ctrl/Cmd+Shift clicking subsequent layer thumbnails will add to your existing marching-ants selection; Alt/Option+clicking a layer mask's thumbnail will show you the contents of the mask on your canvas (aka, show you the grayscale contents of the mask); to paste pixels you've copied from your canvas directly into a mask, copy your desired pixels, Alt/Option-click on a mask's thumbnail to display the mask's contents on the canvas, then hit Ctrl/Cmd+Alt/Option+Shift+V to do a "paste in place" operation, which pastes the pixels you copied in their original position, but directly into your active mask instead of into a layer.
    • To rotate the view of your canvas while you're working, so that making certain strokes is easier etc, tap the R key on your keyboard to get the Rotate View tool, and drag across your canvas to rotate. The smarter way to use this is to hold the R key, drag to rotate, then release the R key, which automatically returns you to the tool you were previously using (the Brush, etc). To reset the rotation of your canvas back to normal, hit the Esc key.
    • To have a live thumbnail view of your composition while working, in addition to your zoomed-in canvas, do one of two things: 1) go to the main menu item Window > Arrange > New Window for [filename], which will create an additional Photoshop window for your current document, which you can leave zoomed out, and which will update as you paint in your main window; or 2) use the Navigator palette as your thumbnail (but the red outline can be distracting).


    Purists and alla-prima diehards will scoff at this stuff, and I don't really use them all that much myself if I'm actually trying to paint, but let's not kid ourselves: the old masters would've murdered you and your entire family for the chance to play with Photoshop's tools for even a single day.

    (edited to add stuff)
    Thanks "D",I learned quite a bit reading this ,the shift clicking with the brush mode seems really useful,as well as some of the masking tricks.
    I have been working on linux so I havent touched photoshop for a while now though.

    Here is a little blender wip to not make this an empty post:

    Name:  untitled.jpg
Views: 386
Size:  55.1 KB

  35. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayPersona View Post
    I have been working on linux so I havent touched photoshop for a while now though.
    You goddamn hippie. Why are you on Linux? Was Blender a gateway drug? Are you considering focusing 100% on modeling now?

    Dear god don't tell me you're using GIMP. Edit: you know you can use Photoshop through Wine, right? How well it works depends on the version number, though. In my limited experience, keyboard shortcuts suffer (Alt in particular is buggy ... but I don't know the Linuxes that well, maybe I was just doing something wrong).
    Last edited by diamandis; October 1st, 2017 at 02:46 AM.

  36. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis View Post
    You goddamn hippie. Why are you on Linux? Was Blender a gateway drug? Are you considering focusing 100% on modeling now?

    Dear god don't tell me you're using GIMP.
    Maybe I am a bit of hippie just without the newage stuff.I actually never considered moving to linux until I upgraded to windows 10,
    all the commercials within the system,Telemetry data collection, forced Upgrades and stuff turned me off from windows.

    And I don't use GIMP(I tried heh).
    I still run windows in a vm with GPU Passthrough(basically allows the vm to use hardware for near native performance) which reduces windows to an
    emulation layer for photoshop(without internet connection hehe).
    Having blender in linux helps too.


    As for what I am focusing on-I know I need to draw but am a bit aimless at the moment
    distracting myself with blender and other crap,makes me a bit depressed really which makes
    me not want to draw which makes me more depressed(sorry for being glum).
    I need to fix my personality so I can fix my art,or the other way around.

  37. #416
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    Those are some smooth forms on that motorbike. Are you getting good at the subdivision modeling or what?

    (long-ass post ahead, sorry. I'm in a writing mood lately, and this is stuff I've been thinking about myself for a long time)

    Man, sorry you're not feeling good. I def have my ups and downs too. But your chicken and egg problem is interesting: are you not into art because you're depressed and that's polluting everything else, or are you depressed because you're not into art?

    I've long thought that CA and places like it might seem like art-grind forums on the surface, but underneath they're actually informal mental institutions. Like other people have pointed out, you have to be at least a little bit crazy to make yourself draw for hours a day. And I assume, maybe unfairly, that lots of people here pick up learning art as a way to feel better about themselves, or to fill a hole in their lives, or as an escape from having to deal with some other glaring problem in their lives--basically a form of denial. I know I started here because I hated my day job, my personal life was going nowhere, and in general my future seemed like a big gray nothing. Learning art was a huge distraction, a big confidence boost, and a potential way forward.

    But whether "gittin gud" at art leads you to a better personal and professional life hinges greatly on whether you end up liking the act of making art. After the confidence boosts and novelty wear off, do you actually like doing art? Do you see yourself doing it most of the day and making a living with it? Current skill and ability don't matter much, because if you like doing something, you'll keep doing it regardless of ability, and you'll naturally get better over time as a side effect, so that shouldn't be much of a concern, really.

    The key is to figure out what you like doing. What aspects of art-making are most rewarding for you, personally? Some warnings:

    • Being a fan of certain styles or types of output isn't necessarily an indicator that you should go into them. (I like sushi. Does that mean I should become a sushi chef?) By all means, explore different types of work if they grab you, but if you end up not liking something after getting pretty good at it, feel free to drop it.
    • Again, getting/being good at something is also not necessarily a good indicator that you should pursue it professionally. Humans are multi-purpose creatures, and we can become good at tons of different things. (I'm good at washing dishes. Should I become a professional dishwasher?)
    • Seeing the attention and praise that pro artists get and wanting the same for yourself is, by itself, also a bad carrot on a stick to chase. That stuff should be a nice bonus, but not the main reason you're doing art.


    So those things aside, try to figure out what aspects of art you're attracted to specifically, and what aspects you don't like. A lot of this really just comes down to experimentation, and exposing yourself to different types of output, learning lots of different things, different tools, etc etc. As time goes by, ask yourself what you most liked working on, and why? What parts of the processes of different projects did you most like doing, and why? What parts did you least like doing, and why? What did you most like learning, and why? What projects did you finish feeling energized and proud, vs. what projects did you finish feeling drained and and bored of out your mind? Think hard about these things, and try to be honest and objective answering them. This is super important!

    You could realize that you love drawing and painting from reference, but hate coming up with your own ideas. It could be that drawing is boring, but painting is really fun. It could be that you hate digi-painting, but you could paint gouache landscapes all day long. It could be that you don't like any of that stuff, and instead you love 3D modeling. It could be that you hate modeling, but love animating 3D models. Or, it could be that you like coming up with lots of original ideas quickly and loosely, but hate the tedium of executing them to a fine finish. Or you like drawing in a cartoony style, and hate realism. Or you like top-level things like mood and atmosphere, but hate rendering fine detail. Or you love mixing photo sources and using digital tricks to come up with concepts and compositions with a mouse, but hate having to use a stylus to draw and paint anything else on top. Or you love playing with color. Or you love creating the illusion of light and shadow. Or maybe it's a question of subject matter: you like painting giant realistic veiny penises but hate having to depict literally anything else. Etc etc etc.

    There are hundreds of aspects to art-making, and different types of output have these aspects in different proportions. E.g., photobashing + quick idea-generation is very different from fine-grained epic comic illustration. Using 3D blockouts as a basis for epic enviro paintings is very different from baking out normal + AO maps and tweaking UVs and troubleshooting rendering errors.

    So if you're going to stay in art, you have to figure out what feels most rewarding and energizing for you, and find the type of work that maximizes those aspects and minimizes the stuff you don't like.

    On the other hand, you might end up deciding art's not for you. That's cool too. Find something rewarding, and fuck everyone else's expectations. Maybe you want to be a calligrapher, programmer, engineer, architect, foreign language teacher / translator, greased-up stripper. Or maybe you want to open up your own jiu jitsu dojo.

    And if you're seriously worried that depression might be compromising your ability to work out the above stuff, get your ass to a good doctor.

    (If all the above is completely irrelevant and I've misread your problem, feel free to ignore, haha.)

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  39. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis View Post
    Those are some smooth forms on that motorbike. Are you getting good at the subdivision modeling or what?

    Thanks

    (long-ass post ahead, sorry. I'm in a writing mood lately, and this is stuff I've been thinking about myself for a long time)

    Man, sorry you're not feeling good. I def have my ups and downs too. But your chicken and egg problem is interesting: are you not into art because you're depressed and that's polluting everything else, or are you depressed because you're not into art?

    I definitely have reasons external to art that lead to depression,having that on top does'nt help though.


    I've long thought that CA and places like it might seem like art-grind forums on the surface, but underneath they're actually informal mental institutions. Like other people have pointed out, you have to be at least a little bit crazy to make yourself draw for hours a day. And I assume, maybe unfairly, that lots of people here pick up learning art as a way to feel better about themselves, or to fill a hole in their lives, or as an escape from having to deal with some other glaring problem in their lives--basically a form of denial. I know I started here because I hated my day job, my personal life was going nowhere, and in general my future seemed like a big gray nothing. Learning art was a huge distraction, a big confidence boost, and a potential way forward.

    Yep... picked up art seriously in highschool,being a weirdo outcast back then I was looking at the massive black guys here on the forum as rock stars.
    But I suppose you could look at any vocation like that-trying to find purpose and meaning in life.


    But whether "gittin gud" at art leads you to a better personal and professional life hinges greatly on whether you end up liking the act of making art. After the confidence boosts and novelty wear off, do you actually like doing art? Do you see yourself doing it most of the day and making a living with it? Current skill and ability don't matter much, because if you like doing something, you'll keep doing it regardless of ability, and you'll naturally get better over time as a side effect, so that shouldn't be much of a concern, really.

    Like you said the novelty of Art definitely wore off for me,I treat it as work now pretty much.But the thing is-everything becomes that if you do it long enough
    your brain isn't designed to produce long term reward for the same activity.


    The key is to figure out what you like doing. What aspects of art-making are most rewarding for you, personally? Some warnings:

    • Being a fan of certain styles or types of output isn't necessarily an indicator that you should go into them. (I like sushi. Does that mean I should become a sushi chef?) By all means, explore different types of work if they grab you, but if you end up not liking something after getting pretty good at it, feel free to drop it.
    • Again, getting/being good at something is also not necessarily a good indicator that you should pursue it professionally. Humans are multi-purpose creatures, and we can become good at tons of different things. (I'm good at washing dishes. Should I become a professional dishwasher?)
    • Seeing the attention and praise that pro artists get and wanting the same for yourself is, by itself, also a bad carrot on a stick to chase. That stuff should be a nice bonus, but not the main reason you're doing art.


    So those things aside, try to figure out what aspects of art you're attracted to specifically, and what aspects you don't like. A lot of this really just comes down to experimentation, and exposing yourself to different types of output, learning lots of different things, different tools, etc etc. As time goes by, ask yourself what you most liked working on, and why? What parts of the processes of different projects did you most like doing, and why? What parts did you least like doing, and why? What did you most like learning, and why? What projects did you finish feeling energized and proud, vs. what projects did you finish feeling drained and and bored of out your mind? Think hard about these things, and try to be honest and objective answering them. This is super important!

    You could realize that you love drawing and painting from reference, but hate coming up with your own ideas. It could be that drawing is boring, but painting is really fun. It could be that you hate digi-painting, but you could paint gouache landscapes all day long. It could be that you don't like any of that stuff, and instead you love 3D modeling. It could be that you hate modeling, but love animating 3D models. Or, it could be that you like coming up with lots of original ideas quickly and loosely, but hate the tedium of executing them to a fine finish. Or you like drawing in a cartoony style, and hate realism. Or you like top-level things like mood and atmosphere, but hate rendering fine detail. Or you love mixing photo sources and using digital tricks to come up with concepts and compositions with a mouse, but hate having to use a stylus to draw and paint anything else on top. Or you love playing with color. Or you love creating the illusion of light and shadow. Or maybe it's a question of subject matter: you like painting giant realistic veiny penises but hate having to depict literally anything else. Etc etc etc.

    I have been definitely thinking and trying stuff for the past 5 yeas,probably too much,the result is that I am not good at any of these things and am not really closer to finding that special elusive thing I like most,kind of like the idea of a soul mate in a relationship- I doubt it exists.there are a multitude of choices on the optimal spectrum and you just have to choose at a certain point and commit.

    There are hundreds of aspects to art-making, and different types of output have these aspects in different proportions. E.g., photobashing + quick idea-generation is very different from fine-grained epic comic illustration. Using 3D blockouts as a basis for epic enviro paintings is very different from baking out normal + AO maps and tweaking UVs and troubleshooting rendering errors.

    So if you're going to stay in art, you have to figure out what feels most rewarding and energizing for you, and find the type of work that maximizes those aspects and minimizes the stuff you don't like.


    On the other hand, you might end up deciding art's not for you. That's cool too. Find something rewarding, and fuck everyone else's expectations. Maybe you want to be a calligrapher, programmer, engineer, architect, foreign language teacher / translator, greased-up stripper. Or maybe you want to open up your own jiu jitsu dojo.

    Dont know if I mentioned it here but I used to do jiujitsu for a year and a bit but ended up quiting just before I got my blue belt,
    found many parallels between it and art actually,even thought about pursuing it more seriously.


    And if you're seriously worried that depression might be compromising your ability to work out the above stuff, get your ass to a good doctor.

    Yeah I need to sort it out,I have been dealing with it since I was a teenager but it always creeps up one me.
    And I appreciate you taking the time to write this even if I didn't respond to all the points I did read them all and found them helpful.


    (If all the above is completely irrelevant and I've misread your problem, feel free to ignore, haha.)

    C

    Last edited by GrayPersona; October 1st, 2017 at 07:45 AM.

  40. #418
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    Man, I can really ramble. I'll keep this short. Last post, I swear.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayPersona View Post
    Like you said the novelty of Art definitely wore off for me,I treat it as work now pretty much.But the thing is-everything becomes that if you do it long enough your brain isn't designed to produce long term reward for the same activity.
    I disagree: there's still lots of areas of graphic design that I find fun to work in, 15 years in. I feel the same about small subsets of art/drawing too, but it seems like I need a lot of recharge time for it. The trick is to find the stuff that feels interesting and energizing on a near-daily basis, because that's the stuff you can actually do for work. In your case, there's gotta be some aspects of the art you've worked on that you liked more than others. For example, one of the basic distinctions I can think of in creative careers is the balance between creativity vs. craft. Graphic design projects, time-wise, are like 80% creativity, 20% craft, because you're mostly using existing assets and making choices about colors, fonts, and layout, and the tools are super easy to use. On the other hand, illustration projects are flipped: 20% creativity (thumbnailing, figuring out layout, colors, etc), and 80% craft (actually having to fill the canvas, creating every little thing from scratch, basically having to do complex ballet with your drawing arm). IMO, craft can go fuck itself. I want to have my ideas, and I want them to be done now, dammit, haha. The most fun parts of illustration for me are the very beginning (sketching, figuring out the basic design of things, and what goes where) and the very end (tweaking colors and adding effects). Everything in between is a pain in the ass, except maybe for painting, which so far I'm kinda liking, but it might just be the novelty. Because of all this, maybe I'd make a better concept artist than an illustrator, if I'm all about coming up with ideas. But that's me. What about you?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayPersona View Post
    there are a multitude of choices on the optimal spectrum and you just have to choose at a certain point and commit.
    So you're saying you've figured out your optimal choices in art? What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayPersona View Post
    Dont know if I mentioned it here but I used to do jiujitsu for a year and a bit but ended up quiting just before I got my blue belt, found many parallels between it and art actually,even thought about pursuing it more seriously.
    Yeah, that's why I brought it up Along w/ the architecture and calligraphy.

  41. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by diamandis View Post
    Man, I can really ramble. I'll keep this short. Last post, I swear.

    Hey I really enjoy discussing stuff with you so I don't mind.


    I disagree: there's still lots of areas of graphic design that I find fun to work in, 15 years in. I feel the same about small subsets of art/drawing too, but it seems like I need a lot of recharge time for it. The trick is to find the stuff that feels interesting and energizing on a near-daily basis, because that's the stuff you can actually do for work. In your case, there's gotta be some aspects of the art you've worked on that you liked more than others. For example, one of the basic distinctions I can think of in creative careers is the balance between creativity vs. craft. Graphic design projects, time-wise, are like 80% creativity, 20% craft, because you're mostly using existing assets and making choices about colors, fonts, and layout, and the tools are super easy to use. On the other hand, illustration projects are flipped: 20% creativity (thumbnailing, figuring out layout, colors, etc), and 80% craft (actually having to fill the canvas, creating every little thing from scratch, basically having to do complex ballet with your drawing arm). IMO, craft can go fuck itself. I want to have my ideas, and I want them to be done now, dammit, haha. The most fun parts of illustration for me are the very beginning (sketching, figuring out the basic design of things, and what goes where) and the very end (tweaking colors and adding effects). Everything in between is a pain in the ass, except maybe for painting, which so far I'm kinda liking, but it might just be the novelty. Because of all this, maybe I'd make a better concept artist than an illustrator, if I'm all about coming up with ideas. But that's me. What about you?

    I guess I am a bit the opposite in that I have more of the "fix a pothole" mentality than that of the right brain oriented visionary.
    I am not gonna say that I necceserily like the tedious part of art (pushing vertexes around or fixing that arm anatomy for the hundreth time).
    I guess my motivation would be more how to solve the problem better rather than the expression of an Idea or a particular subject matter.
    Maybe I am over analyzing though-I guess I started with art because I just saw art that was "cool" and I wanted to create that type of cool art,
    there is still that desire so I wont quit yet.


    So you're saying you've figured out your optimal choices in art? What are they?

    I guess I like constructing 3d forms the best so drawing, and 3d are up my ally
    but if you are gonna draw for a living you will have to paint for a living so that's my thinking.

    I am sure there are ways to combine those things in the right way for me,I just need to stop
    falling in those 6 months of not doing art stretches.


    Yeah, that's why I brought it up Along w/ the architecture and calligraphy.

    Ah dang I knew I mentioned it,you can Hardly sustain yourself with jiujitsu in israel even if you are really good just to pay the bills. Though if it wasn't for my dinky wrists I would be still choking or being choked by someone right now.


    I found this thing in a folder and slapped some materials and decals on it:

    Name:  render4.jpg
Views: 312
Size:  99.3 KB

  42. #420
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    Sweet. Is there any 2D paintover on that, or it's straight from Blender?

    Speaking of, I wanted to ask you about Blender. I want to start mashing up 3D and 2D at some point. I've been learning 3D on 3ds max, because I thought I wanted to go into videogame modeling, but since that's not happening anymore, I can pick whichever 3D modeler I want. Since 3ds max is too expensive for being so old, buggy, and bloated, I figured my choices were either Blender or Modo. Since you're experienced w/ Blender, if you have a few mins, can you tell me what you like and don't like about it? I know it's hard to compare if you haven't used Modo or Max or Maya or whatever else, but maybe you still have opinions. What I hate about Max, for example, is that it crashes all the time, and over the years I've had to download/buy so many add-ons that the out-of-the-box experience would be unusable for me, and it's dumb that Max doesn't include better default tools. What I like about it (and what I've heard others say too) is its modifier stack, which is really useful for starting with simple shapes and then stacking modifiers to create complexity. (I think Blender has something similar, but not as robust afaik.)

    The impression I get of Max vs. Modo vs. Blender is: Max is Windows 98, which has survived 20 years later somehow; Modo is macOS; and Blender is Linux

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