Another Inquiry of Price Data.
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    Red face Another Inquiry of Price Data.

    Hello, everybody out there. Please help me out on this uncertainty. I've heard several versions of hearsay though, I want a verification.

    How do you convert price of singleton exactly into hourly wage for certain type of arts in freelance illustration and concept design lines in USA? I mean whether there is an accurate formula to define it, or is it also nigotiable based on different situations? This kind of jobs usally charge for single piece of work. Is there a universal measurement among all first world countries? In china we commonly wouldn't mention the idea which is named hourly wage in fact. So there are only prices set for single piece of submissions. If needed, The hourly salary can only be estimated approximately according to average effitiency of most artists and 8 hours per day. Do you use that rough way of caculation in this aspect too?

    Let's cite an example. How much for a page of story-board art is fine to match the rank $15 per hour? What will the number be also to match $15 per hour, if the category is cover art (per page) or character design (per character)? A society with super strict details of laws sounds more tidy...

    Thanks.

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    Well... if It would take too long to tell that in full, please give me some simple answers in short. How much are average fee assessments for a page of book cover, a character design and a page of story board? Book covers and character designs are all of cartoon style or semi-realistic-and- stylized style, no strict realistic things involved. I have a need to quote the prices as soon as possible. I want some reliable data. Please give me your opinion.

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    15 USD is not professional pay, not even close. Professional pay for freelance starts at around 50 USD and hour on the low end to around 400 USD an hour or more on the high end.

    These are base starting prices and go up from there depending on complexity.

    A single character in color with turn arounds 800 USD,
    A book cover 2,000 USD
    A finished icon 100 USD
    1 Page of story boards 1200 USD

    Last edited by dpaint; December 14th, 2012 at 12:58 AM.
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    Wow, I'm so surprised! Aren't you kidding me? A base starting price of a page of book cover art can be 2000 USD?? Rumor even goes that 350~700 USD is already fine in America... What's the matter? And a page of story boards can even be 1200 USD? How long do you assume to complete those on average then? And $400 USD per hour... How many artists on earth and together with those living on moon and Mars can make that lots of money so fast? OMG, are you insane? Stop playing me, hey...

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    Please inform me what's definition of the word" professional" and USD in your world view, btw, please...

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    $350~700 USD is not a professional wage for a mass market book cover. It easily could be for a self published or very cheap small press publisher. The numbers dpaint provided are accurate, though of course there is a wide range depending on the project.

    Rather than relying on rumors, heresay and internet misinformation I would recommend getting a copy of the Graphic Arts Guild Pricing and Ethical Guidelines Handbook. It covers Illustrators as well.

    Description of the book quoted from the site:
    "For years, The Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines has been the industry bible for graphic designers and illustrators. The 13th edition, continues the tradition with new information, listings and pricing information based on surveys of working designers. It addresses legal rights and issues such as how copyright laws affect the income and work of graphic artists. It also provides tips on how to negotiate the best deals and how and what to charge for work, and includes sample contracts. For design and illustration professionals, there is no more comprehensive and informative resource."

    Last edited by JeffX99; December 14th, 2012 at 02:07 PM.
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    It's bad enough that this thread is so similar to the last 2 you made.
    Now I'm asking, please stop double posting every-single-damn-time. If you want to add something to your post, use the edit function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untier View Post
    Wow, I'm so surprised! Aren't you kidding me? A base starting price of a page of book cover art can be 2000 USD?? Rumor even goes that 350~700 USD is already fine in America... What's the matter? And a page of story boards can even be 1200 USD? How long do you assume to complete those on average then? And $400 USD per hour... How many artists on earth and together with those living on moon and Mars can make that lots of money so fast? OMG, are you insane? Stop playing me, hey...
    A book cover takes about two weeks to do and sometimes can take a month. 2,000 USD for a months wages, works out to 24,000 USD a year income. The official poverty level in the USA is 23,500 a year for a family of 4, look it up. You expect people to work below the standard of living? Let their families starve so some un-creative greedy asshole like yourself can take advantage of them? People should be payed a fair wage for what they do. They should be able to support their spouse and children, have a car and a house to live in if they choose to have a family, that is not asking too much.

    A professional artist in my view is someone who makes their living from the sale of their artwork. That's what I do. USD is United States Dollars.

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    This guy is a classic example of someone who thinks a piece of art work is no different from any other industrial resource, and a very cheap resource at that.

    Part and parcel of that extremely common attitude is a radical underestimate of how much work goes into a completed piece of design or art, and hence the pathetic price theyre willing to pay.

    Untier one of the reasons our reaction to you is so hostile is because we deal with greedy businessmen who try and scam us and rip us off everyday and after the first million times it gets a little boring.
    plus anyone who does work for you is effectively crossing the picket line, driving the price down for everyone, and taking food out of all our mouths.

    untier how much do you pay your lawyers? I be willing to bet its more than $4 per hour.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 14th, 2012 at 02:55 PM.
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    JeffX99: Woah, woah, wow... Huh? Heh... I know I used to be ignorant on occasion, but I didn't realize that my dgree is so extremely deep. Oh, dearest lord jesus christ, God almighty. I've been stunned so seriously. What dear dpaint said was really a truth? And little does I know, there's really a clear guildline... Other rewards are still small surprises compared to 400 USD per hour. That's incredibly outstanding among all lines in a society. I've not got that mysterious handbook yet, but I think that kind of salary may well not be a pure salary. There must be fame, copyright and great royalty mixed in it, right? But if all of those count, there are a few more tremendous incomes of artists... So pure fame can make it? Anyway, in this way, it isn't out of pure labor but great art effect...

    Thank you very very much, JeffX99, you seem like an angel!


    Star Eater: Um, technically, yep. But my penultimate post before current one seems like a criminal and offensive to everyone, and already being imprisoned forever... The last one focuses to many other informations. This one is dedicated to the relationships of datas solely, so I think it's reasonable to be a single topic as well. As for the double posting, yeah, I should have integrated them together~

    Hey. Star Eater, you are a wicked, cruel man. You're welcome...And you're a good cop, too. So I second you! Go ahead and continue to scourge others, come on!



    dpaint: Being over two weeks is an extreme time consuming for a book cover without doing other jobs, isn't it? Ok, I admit I don't know much about the book cover arts for books of mass market. And nah, I'm also a responsible person and a super-creative-master wannabe.

    I gotta study that authoritative handbook next.

    Velocity Kendall: Ouch... I'm not a prefessional businessmen either! I'm an all time serious-minded visual art lover. So I'd just like to have a systemetic try in this realm. Stop demonizing me anymore, ladies and gentlemen...

    Last edited by untier; December 14th, 2012 at 10:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by untier View Post
    Other rewards are still small surprises compared to 400 USD per hour. That's incredibly outstanding among all lines in a society.
    first its not, sadly. due the financial crisis and more serious investigations, concerning manager income (alot of whom werent even capable of doing their jobs) and financial transactions between bussiness and politics, anyone by now should be aware of HOW MANY people actually do earn way more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by untier View Post
    I've not got that mysterious handbook yet, but I think that kind of salary may well not be a pure salary. There must be fame, copyright and great royalty mixed in it, right?
    of course its not pure salary (whatever that is). we re not selling our time, but a product. you dont ask how many man-hours went into making a can of soup or a car, or do you? no because youre aware that there are other factors involved. same goes for art, but unfortunately alot of people are too ignorant to see that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by untier View Post
    I've not got that mysterious handbook yet, but I think that kind of salary may well not be a pure salary. There must be fame, copyright and great royalty mixed in it, right? But if all of those count, there are a few more tremendous incomes of artists... So pure fame can make it? Anyway, in this way, it isn't out of pure labor but great art effect...
    No there isn't that would be in addition to the price. 400 an hour isn't that much for a job. Especially in the movie industry or for triple A games development, 400 would be the base on the high end of things. In gallery work its even higher.
    I'm a middle tier gallery artist here in the USA and I regularly get 1,000 an hour for my commissioned paintings. I'm on the low end of prices for gallery work, my teachers get three times that for their paintings.

    The guys I know doing comics professionally get 200 to 300 a page for pencils, 100 a page for coloring.

    In games 200 an hour for isometric Icons for games is normal pay. Concept paintings 400 an hour is not unusual. The reason Character dev is around 8-1200 is there is usually a lot of back and forth with clients. Only an idiot wouldn't get paid for that time.

    When you freelance you are not getting paid forty hours a week twelve months a year unless you land a really big project. There will be times when you don't work for weeks at a time. You are getting paid to deliver a product to a professional standard in a certain amount of time.

    The fact that there are a bunch of amateurs out there trying to self publish creative content, paying shit wages and crappy artists willing to take shit wages or even worse, work for free just to try and get a seat at the table with the professionals, just shows how morally bankrupt some people are. If they had any self respect they would work on their craft until they could earn those wages instead of undercutting the industry. Some people are meant to serve coffee for minimum wage all of their lives, the fact they want to be creative doesn't change that. Giving away art just shows what a persons art is really worth- nothing.

    Last edited by dpaint; December 14th, 2012 at 12:50 PM.
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    Amen Bruthah! Can I get a witnez! lol!

    I'm reminded (ironically enough) of the famous Chinese Sumi artist tale...a visitor to his humble dwelling is fascinated by the beautiful, expressive sumi paintings of koi, horses, a crane surrounding the Master. The visitor requests a painting of a koi...the master smiles...dipping his brush in the ink...and with a few graceful movements upon the rice paper a koi seems to come alive. Handing the painting to the visitor he quietly says, "That will be 3,000 yuan please?" (around $500USD). The visitor staggers, blowing a bit of spittle as he exclaims, "BUT! But...but that took you less than five minutes!!!". "No" the Master replies calmly, with a smile on his face he says, "That took me a lifetime".

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    Quote Originally Posted by untier View Post
    dpaint: Being over two weeks is an extreme time consuming for a book cover without doing other jobs, isn't it? Ok, I admit I don't know much about the book cover arts for books of mass market. And nah, I'm also a responsible person and a super-creative-master wannabe.
    The book cover is one of the primary advertisements that will sell the book. It's what will make people stop in the bookstore and pick it up. If you spent a year writing a book, or paid an author to spend a year writing a book, don't you think it would be kind of pathetic to rush through the packaging design in two weeks or less?

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    Some of the posts in this thread make me realize my self-worth. Good god.

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    sone_one: Um hum, if you count managers and governors or even presidents into consideration, that would be very hard to caculate their precise incomes... For the saying we're not selling our time, yes, it's inspiring. Or there are too many people who are disguising to be blind to see that, and they also blind others on purpose.


    dpaint: Thank you very much for your instructions so far. And your achievement is very enviable...But do you think the self published stuffs should be banned? As far as I know, there would some great sparks be bursted out by self published authors. I see that a coorperation to help this kind of publishing is a labor like serving coffee though. And I realize shifting hand cheap outsourcing for small business is serving coffee, too. But A person have to serve coffee to got the contact for the deeper, detailed workflows and priciples inside a line at first, before he has the qualification to really integrate to the core of that line. I think this movement could be applied to all lines. What's the real problem is that if main stream markets wouldn't consider other active factors and blindly try to keep abreast with amateur prices... And once an amateur publisher get a great fame, he must paste the formal prices to his employment in future, or else it'll be his true sin.



    Jeffx99: Hello, Dear Jeffx99! What are you twittering... Bruthah and witnez must be some secret symbols of ancient time...You're so naughty! ...Alright, I'm joking.

    Okay, this tale sounds to have given a very rational explanation. I know some wise guys can give this kind of short but shocking and meaningful words. Another cool style.

    Vineris: Well, I admit it's because the outlook i possess was too small... I knew there were a few book covers that were quite demanding and expensive to the degree of 2000 USD. But I thought those were remote things to most artists. And I never realized in America those are so popular...Certainly the significantly greater markets can guarantee everything. And every intelligence expense gets true respect. Good. Repeated tweaks for perfection are needed for sure.

    Velderia: Hi. I'm also glad that the result of this thread helps you too~ And thanks for all contributers on here.

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    Nothing should be banned but people have a responsibility to be fair. Destroying an industry is worse than banning people. Low pay destroys industries which in turn destroys lives.

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    *sigh*

    I am getting a parttime job now because I do not get paid much.
    To actually read what I should have been paid. GOSH

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Nothing should be banned but people have a responsibility to be fair. Destroying an industry is worse than banning people. Low pay destroys industries which in turn destroys lives.
    Ah, sure thing. Supposing justice of the main stream is broken one day so that most respects and lifes are about to be destroyed, and you want to send an army to clean the chief criminals, summon me, I'll assist you with some special forces.



    Sushy: Hi. May I ask how much would you consume per hour? Then how much are you hoping to make? 400 USD hourly or even higher at dpaint level? The problem is that those rapturing skills aren't so easy to gain. May you get paid 100 USD per hour by artistical canvassing soon, certainly, if you're making less than that...

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