I wasn't able to find much about twisting objects in perspective, so basically, my theory is this:
The distance between the vanishing points determines which "lens" you are using. Now, if you have defined the lens (distance), you can move the vanishing points to every position you like, if you want to turn the objects in your shot. The only thing you then have to remember is, which objects share which parallel lines.
Is that correct? Can you recommend a nice read about this kinda stuff? I almost exclusively find beginner tutorials about 1, 2, 3 point perspective. I want to know how the vanishing points represent the lens and how to determine this. Also I would like to know how to properly twist objects in perspective and if I did it right.
You're somewhat close on this, and while it's difficult to address this question without visuals, I'll try my best.
Your main left and right vanishing points in 2pt are ALWAYS at 90 degrees from one another when viewed from the station point, or point at which the viewer is standing and observing the scene. The camera lens your referring to is nothing more than the cone of vision that you've chosen to view the scene. People's eyes are normally a 60 degree cone of vision whereas certain cameras (panoramic, for example) can be upwards of 90 degrees. The distortion that you get (as is observable with the box closest to us in the scene you've drawn) is determined by the cone of vision that the "camera" (viewer) has available to him while looking at a scene, so that if you draw anything outside of the cone of vision you've established then forms will begin to distort. This isn't a bad thing. In fact, it can be an interesting effect and add some dynamics to a piece; it's just important to realize when you're using it.
Now how about tilted objects in perspective? - this question bugged me for a bit but the answer is actually quite simple. Parallel lines always converge back to a single point in space (which is normally the horizon line, except for 3pt perspective and above, where points converge to the zenith or nadir, or above and below the horizon line respectively). So imagining you have a "tilted" box in space, as long as the sides of the box converge to points on your horizon line, it will correct. There are, ultimately, an infinite number of vanishing points that you could have for a single scene.
I recommend a few things to help you out. Firstly, you're on the internet, so there are tons of free information to be found on the subject(along with visuals that will do a much better job of explaining than just text ever could). I suggest going onto vimeo and typing in "perspective drawing" and watching videos that are on there; Youtube doesn't have the best at the moment. And there are a few books to look at. David Chelsea's "Perspective for Comic Book Artists" is a good one, and it's on Scribd so you can look at it for free. And, of course, if you have some money to spend, Scott Robertson's DVD's are a must have. Hope this helps some.
Hey Ecki, thanks for stopping by my SB again. I can see what your saying about the line weight. I second the recommendation of "Perspective for Comic Book Artists." It is written in comic form so it's not just all technical and boring. Keep on posting!
@Tea of Doom: Hey Tea, nice name! Yeah, maybe I should do some 30 minute pose studies? I think that my main problems lie in drawing bodies from imagination. Thanks for all the nice tips, I'll try to take them into account. I've already prepared a list of books and resources that I should take a look at. So I'll definitely will give your recommendations a try! Your edit is also very nice, I'll definitely take a look!
@Yemi775: Hey hey! By "dynamic figure drawing", do you mean the book by Burne Hogarth, or the workshops by David Finch? Because I've got both and both are very great. I basically use all the book that I can get my hands on. I've got most of them as PDF, because I don't like to have that much stuff lying physically around in my flat. I'm kinda minimalist that way. My personal favourite book at the moment is "Gottfried Bammes - Der nackte Mensch".
@MrFrenik: Thanks for your explanation, that really helped me out already. I already know and read "Perspective for Comic Book Artists" for a few times. While it is great, it still left some questions in me (like the tilting of objects and the camera lenses, etc.). Today, I've also watched the first of Scott Robertsons DVD's, it was really awesome! I'll definitely try to get my hands on the rest of them as well! You are really my hero! Most of my update today is stuff that I've learned from this first DVD.
@sgj88: As written above, I already read it a few times – but it's still kinda basic. It dishes out some very intense scenes with a lot of details, but it isn't answering all my questions :
I've spent the whole day trying to wrap my head around perspective. This stuff is really hard to get just by teaching yourself. But I think that I'm slowly getting to a point where my questions are pretty much covered. Now I've just got to get confident / not tangled in 9000+ perspective lines
hey great perspective and elipses! I think when you think about your character designs you should center it around one awsome detail and subordinate the rest of the small things try and have areas without complicated shapes to let the eye rest
In most of your sketches when you drawing simplified human forms, you usually using circle as a pelvis. Personally i found that using cube is much more accurate because pelvis always tilt a bit forward.
You may check Mentler stuff and hes cubes and eggs method if you hadn't so far.
Hope it helps, and sorry for my crappy english
Last edited by tsabu; December 17th, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
I think that perspective is slowly finding its way to me
@Mr. Toodles: The detail overkill is only on those picture that were collaborations. This friend of mine really has a thing for extremely flattening details. But I should draw more character designs, just to put my anatomy to some use
@tsabu: Yeah, perspective is one hard nut to crack, but I'm hammering away pretty hard Thank you for that tool, I cannot use it, though. (I'm working on linux only). But it's still fairly easy just to construct my perspective by hand. (also I'm trying to get the grid freehand, just to get my straight-line-skill down. Thanks for the "Cube-pelvis" suggestion, however, I'm trying to use as little underdrawing as possible. My goal is just to work with hints, while still getting the proportions and anatomy right. I will still give this a try, though
Today, I spent most of my time watching stuff about perspective and getting the theory in. So I had only time for 2 drawings. They – however – took like 1 hour each:
hey man drawing in pen its hard huh just keep at it you made a tough choice the quality will rise in time, just make sure you are using those negative spaces in the figure its quick and easy to double check for mistakes that way keep it up man try a longer pose
@lionheartGFX: Actually, I've drawn for quite some time with a pen already. I'm also not erasing when I'm using a pencil, so it's not really a difference. The only real difference is, that I'm not able to shade smoothly with a pen. I'll be making a 1 hour pose next, to get more of the little details and proportions down.
@Yemi775: As I said, it basically makes no difference, because I'm not erasing when I'm using a pencil. But I sometimes switch between pencil and pen, just because I like the contrast that the pen gives, and I also like the rendering that I can do with pencil.
Today, It didn't work out for me too well, so there you go with just some random sketches.
(At the last page, I start to get more into it, but it's already 1 AM at my place, so I'm already quite tired)
Dude you're kicking ass! Studies are awesome and they're coming in at a good pace, only thing I'd recommend is maybe some gesture drawing? It helps a bunch and it only takes like 20 minutes to do a solid sheet
I swear one day I'll be good. I swear one day I will be proud of my work. When that day comes, I'll need to kick my ass and try harder.
Over the last two days, I was DMing a roleplaying game, so I had very little time to draw, but today, I went right back on track.
Tomorrow, I will have a little party, so I don't know if I find the time for drawing, but from the first of January, I'll be working hard again
Onward to 2013! Har har
Today, I've removed the eraser from my pencil, so that I'm not tempted to use it. It helps a lot