No patience is bad for an artist?
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Thread: No patience is bad for an artist?

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    No patience is bad for an artist?

    I seem to have a big problem doing anything that involves more than an hour or so to finished art.
    A few times I've done projects that I spent a few days on but they always disappoint me in the end, I seem to do the best work if it looks really rough. I wish I could spend hours on one thing but I just can't. Anyone else have this problem...or is it really a problem in your opinion?

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    Cultivate some, it's a skill you need for a lot of things besides art as well.

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    Funny because I seem to have plenty of patience with anything else within reason, like photography, just not painting or drawing

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    Simply put: You're not used to being new at something. Part of experimentation (and art) is trying to feel your way around in the unknown. The "lack of patience" will go away in a rather short amount of time, after you've learned to sit down and move to your own beat. You spend hours perfecting a lot of what you like, so art is no different in that regard.

    May I suggest music while you draw?

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    well, with photography you press a button and you have an image, with painting you go through various steps to do this. You need to enjoy the process and not the final result.

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    I've actually been doing art for a long time, graduated OCA in '83.

    It's some kind of weird thing where I have to see it done before I stop.

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    maybe you haven't found the right motivation or you just don't like it as much

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    i dont think i ever drew any thing for more than 20 minutes....i was doing this study where i had to draw my foot for like 60 minutes i tried but i only was able to draw it for like 5 minutes lol..may be that's my problem no patience?

    Last edited by creeptool; December 1st, 2012 at 02:45 PM.
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    instant gratification ≠ art

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    I guess it depends what you're trying to do.

    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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    You are allowed to take breaks and step back from work. Don't like it after 20 minutes, come back and look at it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempoe View Post
    I wish I could spend hours on one thing but I just can't. Anyone else have this problem...or is it really a problem in your opinion?
    It's not so much of a problem if everything is said and done with an art piece and you move on satisfied. Your message reads clearly to you and others.
    It's problem if every art piece you make is rushed, muddled and nobody really understands it, and it feels incomplete to you. Then you need to spend the extra time to polish off loose ends or do more studies for better visual problem solving.

    So...are you losing patience with an art piece because it's already done? Or are you losing patience with an art piece because you are frustrated with your current skill level to really complete it?

    Make a sketchbook happy, feed it a tip to improve!

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85628
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    Do some Brague studies and learn to discipline yourself. You'll never master anything by getting bored in such a short time.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    I guess I've just always admired those who can really work on a piece painstakingly until they're satisfied. Especially on big pieces. I can't say that I'm ever really satisfied, but I doubt many artists are though. Also I seem to make things worse the more I work sometimes.
    I do graphic design for a living, and with that I revisit my stuff all the time and improve and tweak and the longer I spend the better it gets.

    I think I'll have to try something small but detailed to start out with and see how it goes.

    I was hoping to get replies like ...yeah, I do fast stuff, it's nice, go for it.

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    Yeah, I do fast stuff, its the way I paint, go for it. Its called alla prima or au preimier coup. You basically finish the painting in one sitting, usually in a couple of hours. I make my living selling paintings that take me on average no more than three hours to complete. Of course it took me years to get good enough for someone to pay me for them.

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    You get faster after learning how to paint, not before.

    Edit: Seems dpaint got there before me.


    I didn't think it was possible to be called an artist when you have nothing to say. It's like being a writer who publishes individual words as books and expects to be praised for it.
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    Fast stuff IS good - actually, drawing lots of quick pieces and studies is a faster and better way to learn than spending a long time trying to perfect one, and if you are happy to do only those it's all good. However, if you want to be able to produce polished work which has taken longer then you'll have to figure out what the problem is and resolve it. There is always a reason for behaviours like this, usually emotional/psychological. Perhaps you doubt that you can create complex or polished pieces, or are worried that you'll put in a lot of time and find yourself disappointed with the result. Something is causing your distractability, but unfortunately the only person who can figure out what that is is you! People on an internet forum don't know you well enough to diagnose the issue.

    Try to examine what is happening when you find yourself wanting to move away after a short time, and understand what is causing a barrier between you and the kind of work you admire and want to be able to produce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempoe View Post
    I wish I could spend hours on one thing but I just can't. Anyone else have this problem...or is it really a problem in your opinion?
    Sure you can. You just don't want to. You can't even decisively call this a problem, and if you don't really see it as a problem you're not going to fix it. It's been 30 years, if this had been a real issue that bothered you it would have been taken care of long ago.

    Is it a problem? It would be for me, because you can't create a comic book in 60 minutes or less. Even a very basic comic strip takes 2 hours, and if I want to do one I have to come back to it until it's done, however my attention span feels about things. You, on the other hand, don't sound like you have a reason to ever go beyond the rough sketch, and so you almost never do. It sounds like whenever you try it your inexperience at the rendering and finishing process fucks things up, and you see this as further proof that working on things for longer is a bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempoe View Post
    I guess I've just always admired those who can really work on a piece painstakingly until they're satisfied.
    If I'm not satisfied then why would I stop? Especially with comics. You work for an hour, you step back, you look at it, and 80% of the page is still blank. At that point stopping is not really an option. You can't submit 20% of the story, it just doesn't work. And by the time you've been at it for 6 hours, you might as well go an extra two and make it not suck.

    So I guess the moral of this story is that comics taught me patience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineris View Post
    Is it a problem? It would be for me, because you can't create a comic book in 60 minutes or less. Even a very basic comic strip takes 2 hours, and if I want to do one I have to come back to it until it's done, however my attention span feels about things.
    It's funny you should mention comic books. I have rather the same kind of problem as the OP. I have never been able to produce any really polished work, and I am also not really sure why. Perhaps I get bored working on the same drawing for days on end? Thing is, after an hour or two I simply cannot think of anything more to add to it. I'll never be Bouguereau.

    Enters comic book art. Always been my favourite art form; I just never explicitly realized it until very recently. Now it is of course true that to produce a comic book takes way longer than just about any painting I can think of. But if you see every individual frame as a drawing, then I would guess that the comic style might actually to some extent be all about speed, depending on how detailed it is.

    Overall, it does however require vastly more skill than I can bring to bear at the moment. And I do wonder whether one will ever master the simplified form of comic figures etc. without first learning to draw them highly realistically.

    Edit: Your sketchbook is awesome, by the way.

    Last edited by blogmatix; December 2nd, 2012 at 12:32 AM.
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    man i have zero patience either dude. more than 5 or 6 hours and im bored. the solution for me is just work really fast. which comes in handy when clients need you to do stuff quickly. keep at it and youll find what works for you.

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    Why do people enjoy visualizing things in their mind but then often don't enjoy the learning process needed to create these images, to draw them and paint them? Why does this happen so much in art?

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    I know that I can spend longer doing art than anything else except maybe playing video games and reading.
    I do sometimes feel a bit impatient, and that is often when I want to get with the next section or idea. This often happens when I'm working with sequential art, (comics, animation, etc), and I'm get "tired" of the set up shots, and fill pages, and would rather get into the action and drama.
    My solution...
    Well I don't have one. I have countless started animations and comics, yet I can't stay with them until completion. I keep trying, but I have a real issue there. then again, I keep trying to create epics, whole graphic novels, and full series length animations, and after about 20-40 hours, with no where near any completion in sight, I lose steam, so it's less of an issue of not spending long amount of time, Its just needing to devote even MORE.

    As far as having some of your best work done when you work quickly, I don't think you are alone in that. It depends more on what you are going for.
    I doubt when going for photo realism, a quick drawing will best capture that idea, but if you are trying to catch motion, colors, or the emotions of a scene, I know I personally find that a quicker sketch or the first sketch oftentimes is the best. I find once I add on details and details, sometimes the initial "feeling" is lost.

    I guess if you are satisfied and so are your clients, there is nothing to be worried about. If on the other hand, you do want to spend more time doing a single piece, or in one sitting, I"d say start small and build up. adding five more minutes to a piece won't feel too rough right? well just add five more minutes on top of that, and then eventually five more on that. before you know it, you will be sitting for 4 hours straight without moving.

    Fudge this AWESOME place!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonor View Post
    Why do people enjoy visualizing things in their mind but then often don't enjoy the learning process needed to create these images, to draw them and paint them? Why does this happen so much in art?
    Because imagining cool things is easy, enjoyable, requires little to no practice, and most people can do it to some extent. On the other hand, bringing those cool things into the physical world in a way that even approaches what your mind can visualise requires a lifetime of dedication to that goal. Most people are deterred from trying to do it on their first failed attempt because they come to the conclusion that they can't do it, and most of the rest are deterred when they have done enough of it to work out that it will take many years of concentrated effort to become any good.

    It's not unique to art - look at all the people who say "I want to write a novel" and they never do. There is nothing surprising about it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birkeley View Post
    Because imagining cool things is easy, enjoyable, requires little to no practice, and most people can do it to some extent. On the other hand, bringing those cool things into the physical world in a way that even approaches what your mind can visualise requires a lifetime of dedication to that goal. Most people are deterred from trying to do it on their first failed attempt because they come to the conclusion that they can't do it, and most of the rest are deterred when they have done enough of it to work out that it will take many years of concentrated effort to become any good.

    It's not unique to art - look at all the people who say "I want to write a novel" and they never do. There is nothing surprising about it!
    I wasn't aware of the problem in other fields, but now you mention it, people do mention that.

    How can a person learn to enjoy the process more?

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    I think it has a lot to do with how much of a "friend" you are to the entire process. For example, what is your relationship with the obstacles you meet? Do you view them as something negative? Do you mentally avoid them and/or engage in conflict with them? Or do you fully accept the obstacles as part of the journey, and enjoy the challenge of overcoming them?

    Impatience probably stems from having the misguided priorities when you begin creating the art. If your primary goal is to make something awesome and it doesn't happen at first, obstacles will be seen as antagonists, and you will get frustrated and impatient. Time spent creating the artwork also becomes a kind of 'enemy', because it is another obstacle to achieving the end result. Why are you creating art in the first place? The answer to this question defines the quality of everything you produce.

    For example, if the first priority is to enjoy the process in it's entirety, the energy you generate changes completely. Challenges become entertaining, not obstacles to steamroll through but rather restrictions that can be played with to bring out more richness in your work. They can be used to your advantage - depending on how open-minded you are. Of course, the intent of making something beautiful is still there, but it's not a burning fervor that drives you insane if it's not achieved. It's okay if you don't make it, it's okay if you do. In both cases, you are having fun and impatience cannot exist in the presence of enjoyment!

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    Yes, I agree with ceddo. It's about being able to relax and enjoy the mark-making for itself, rather than constantly striving for an end product. The frustration and tendency to quit seems to come from a mindset of "I want this result right now and I'm not getting it", instead of one of seeing drawing as an opportunity for growth and exploration, and finished pieces as an occasional bonus on that path. This sort of thing is expressed much better in the book "Art & Fear" which I really recommend reading if you are interested in this (I'm re-reading it right now, which is why I chimed in on your question, since it talks about this a lot).

    The problem of this mindset is common in most skills or goals which require time to achieve - it's not even limited to creative fields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceddo View Post
    I think it has a lot to do with how much of a "friend" you are to the entire process. For example, what is your relationship with the obstacles you meet? Do you view them as something negative? Do you mentally avoid them and/or engage in conflict with them? Or do you fully accept the obstacles as part of the journey, and enjoy the challenge of overcoming them?

    Impatience probably stems from having the misguided priorities when you begin creating the art. If your primary goal is to make something awesome and it doesn't happen at first, obstacles will be seen as antagonists, and you will get frustrated and impatient. Time spent creating the artwork also becomes a kind of 'enemy', because it is another obstacle to achieving the end result. Why are you creating art in the first place? The answer to this question defines the quality of everything you produce.
    To put down the images I want to imagine, to tell stories with images.

    What is a good answer?


    For example, if the first priority is to enjoy the process in it's entirety, the energy you generate changes completely. Challenges become entertaining, not obstacles to steamroll through but rather restrictions that can be played with to bring out more richness in your work. They can be used to your advantage - depending on how open-minded you are. Of course, the intent of making something beautiful is still there, but it's not a burning fervor that drives you insane if it's not achieved. It's okay if you don't make it, it's okay if you do. In both cases, you are having fun and impatience cannot exist in the presence of enjoyment!
    You chose to enjoy the process and instantly challenges become entertaining? Isn't there something more to it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonor View Post
    What is a good answer?
    I think that's subjective, but each set of motives will lead to different results, and some motives carry/generate less favorable energy types. E.g. if the motives are too focused on some point in an ideal future, disappointment will arise.

    It might also be useful to consider the fact that many people may want the same thing on a surface level (e.g. a piece of candy) but their methods differ because the motives are rooted in different energy types (shoplifting vs. buying). Terrible example, but you get the point. There's just so many dimensions to motives it would be impossible to classify them in terms of good and bad. But I definitely think it's useful to look inside and be aware of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonor View Post
    You chose to enjoy the process and instantly challenges become entertaining? Isn't there something more to it?
    Not really. The difficult part is continuously realizing when you've stopped enjoying the process, and re-aligning yourself. It's kind of like meditation/being an art ninja..

    Last edited by ceddo; December 2nd, 2012 at 09:23 AM.
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    I think it's about learning to enjoy challenges, period. I've noticed that people who enjoy their work and have the patience to stick to a difficult task tend to be people who enjoy a good challenge, while people who wimp out are the ones who see challenges as annoyances or insurmountable problems...

    This applies to everything in life. It helps to have a gamer mentality, where every problem is a challenge to test your skills, and goddammit, you're not gonna let the game beat you, you're gonna show that problem who's boss and wrestle with it until you beat it. Eventually if you solve enough problems you level up and find the treasure or whatever, but the game is the problem-solving part. With no challenges, it would be a boring game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonor View Post
    Why do people enjoy visualizing things in their mind but then often don't enjoy the learning process needed to create these images, to draw them and paint them? Why does this happen so much in art?
    I'd think that most of people's dreams have very little to do with the reality of bringing those dreams to life. Just because you sit on your butt and think about running a marathon effortlessly doesn't mean you are going to enjoy running for even 20 minutes. If you really really really want to run that marathon so bad that you can taste it then you use that as motivation to get over the unpleasant parts and find strategies to make the training enjoyable in some way. But if you don't enjoy running and you don't want it THAT badly then it stays a daydream.

    Everyone's resources are limited, people dream about doing many things but the reality is that they can only choose to concentrate on a few, so they pick the ones they find the most convenient and rewarding. I bet you have dreamed about doing all kinds of things that you never intend to pursue any further.

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