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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    I never claimed my choice to not take LSD was a fact. I claimed the experimentally-backed effects were factual.
    right. and the drug fatality statistics (or almost total lack of them) re. E are facts. as are the ones showing smack will destroy you.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    I conceded that my choice not to do certain drugs was founded in my own brand of ethics, not science. Something you are unwilling to do as you cannot seem to make the distinction between what is or what ought be. .
    im perfectly willing to concede my choice is founded in my own brand of ethics. ethics based on how harmful things are...?

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 7th, 2012 at 02:42 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    My god, do you argue in bad faith....So are you pro-murderer or are you a bigot?
    hee hee you have a bit of a kev shaped blind spot dont you? saying people are wholly negative in an invective-filled attack. accusing people of arguing in bad faith while argueing in bad faith. making lazy racist images ("and I just grabbed the first one I saw") while argueing for the good of society..
    its comical! why not tell me to stop fucking swearing too?!

    how you came to see yourself as arbiter of all that should be stigmatised has never been fully explained. and why you hate people getting nutted at raves so much is also a mystery. if it helps, people having fun at parties hate nasty old bringdowns too, so i guess it goes both ways.

    the funniest thing of all is how you spit "politically correct" like its the worst diss ever. it just means being nicer to people and treating them fairly, whether theyre an bitter old white nobody or an african guy dressed in pelts.

    alright dickbags, its been a trip but thats my ride calling, time to hit the street! later suckazzzzzz

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; December 7th, 2012 at 02:56 PM.
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  3. #183
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    Nobody better light up near these last few pages cause all these strawmen are gonna burst in flames

    @Qitsune There are some recent studies with MDMA and PTSD I thought they were interesting http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/he...nted=all&_r=1&

    Also with mushrooms http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/0...ancer-anxiety/

    Could we in the future see these drugs prescribed? It would be interesting to see them follow the route of medical marijuana

     

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  5. #184
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    is it me... or
    are you...
    Name:  Untitled-2.gif
Views: 374
Size:  34.1 KB

    Last edited by Shahan; December 7th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
     

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  7. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    LOVE the first comic, haha.
    Second one...eh. Not as much.

    It is possible to be a social drinker and not an alcoholic.
    It is possible to use various recreational drugs and not be a junkie.

    It's also possible that both can ruin your life if you are a fucknut.



     

  8. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    hee hee you have a bit of a kev shaped blind spot dont you?
    Unfortunately, it's not the first time Kev says outrageous bullshit, then claims he's so sensitive and can't stand being called a bigot, it's his modus operandi. Only sometimes it's not bullshit against people who are open-minded about drug users, or racist bullshit, sometimes it's homophobic bullshit and bullshit against people who draw furries. It's sad that anyone who doesn't think just like Kev is going to be a target, and labeled repulsive for calling him out on it.

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  10. #187
    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    Qitsune,

    We simply have a disagreement about the fundamental principles that will lead to a more humane existence.

    As far as I can tell, your ideology indicates that the worst thing in the world is to have opinions about the behaviors of other human beings.

    I think the worst thing in the world is to murder, rape, be a pederast, abuse your children, to abuse women, become addicted to drugs, to sell drugs to people who are going through a rough patch, to become addicted to alcohol or cigarettes, to act irresponsibly when other human beings are suffering, etc.

    If one feels that societal pressure might assist in preventing any of the litany of horrors listed above, then I am willing to be called any name in the book in order that such horrors are prevented through such benign means. Societal pressure, after all, is the very best way to go about tending to a functioning society, as it avoids resorting to authoritarian force or the courts to achieve beneficial behaviors.

    If you think the suspension of judgment is moral, then I think you are fooling yourself. There's no society in the world that can function for long without self-restraint. And self-restraint is learned behavior.

    At least Icarus tried!


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  12. #188
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    I enjoyed Kendall's quote of someone else here I found it quite shallow and pedantic... yes... exquisite and esoteric......

    his use of carpe ad domine and iambic pentameter made me especially carboniferous.

     

  13. #189
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    Ok, this is getting stupid. There isn't anything to be gained by further discussion of this topic. All of the points/counter points have been stated... in triplicate. I think we all know were each other stand. Now it has become a question of whose moral ethics are better.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Ok, this is getting stupid. There isn't anything to be gained by further discussion of this topic. All of the points/counter points have been stated... in triplicate. I think we all know were each other stand. Now it has become a question of whose moral ethics are better.
    I thought I summed this up quite well in my last post...
    but yes i agree.

     

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  17. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Now it has become a question of whose moral ethics are better.
    Nah, now it's about who can feign the most outrage against silly shit to bump up their PC brownie points and martyr themselves in the name of their ideologies. It's time to equate anti-drug with racism, homophobia, sexism, fursecution, being pro-life, supporting Bush, pro-war, or whatever else 20-something liberals are raging against these days. So bloody boring.

    I'll take the ethics of interesting people with interesting views and interesting things to say. Sadly, 90% of the pro-drug people here aren't as interesting as they think they are. Drug use as a supplement for personality. #yolo#swag.

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  19. #192
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    Anyway. . .

    I don't think Kev's cartoon dialogue on one of the Wikipedia images from the "Witchdoctor" entry was racist. After all, the subject of witchdoctors and shamans did come up (along with the alleged great insight of such figures). That fact that these guys are "practicing" in regions of Africa where the failure to deploy simpler, older modern advances in science, medicine, and infrastructure causes great loss of life was a pretty good counterpoint.

    But, given that the thread has arrived at the point of using shamans and witchdoctors as "authority" for the benefits of hallucinogen use, well. . .

    . . . that's just silly!

    Kind of like Steve Job's fatal decision to use "alternatives to medicine" to treat a slower growing and more treatable/survivable form of pancreatic cancer instead of getting the surgery his real doctor advised.

    But, Mr. Jobs was part and parcel of much of that sort of silly hippy thinking that leads people to believe in such foolishness even though they are otherwise sane, intelligent and highly productive members of society.

     

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  21. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    Nah, now it's about who can feign the most outrage against silly shit to bump up their PC brownie points and martyr themselves in the name of their ideologies. It's time to equate anti-drug with racism, homophobia, sexism, fursecution, being pro-life, supporting Bush, pro-war, or whatever else 20-something liberals are raging against these days. So bloody boring.
    Drugs! Ah of course, it all makes sense in that context. Now I finally have a good explanation for liberalism.


    **Yeah, I'm aware that I'm taking a cheap shot at political ideologies that I don't share... shoot me.**

     

  22. #194
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    OmenSpirits is offline Commercial-Illustrator in-training, NOT an artist. Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    This puppy needs to be closed!



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  24. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    The problem with all this science stuff in this discussion is that science is about what is rather than what ought to be. So saying "Some drugs are harmless" and "All drugs aren't the same" is just making a series of Is-statements as premises to a conclusion of "People should do drugs" or "People should be allowed to do drugs." Which are Ought-statements. I ought-not need to state the reason why this is problematic. So this matter, as well-intended as people are in posting medical data, it does not answer the question of what ought to be. So whether or not we should or shouldn't do drugs is ultimately a question of values, morals and ethics. Which I tried to get across earlier. It's almost a misdirection to say that because LSD is 'less harmful' than Cocaine, we ought to do LSD instead of Cocaine. Or insert whatever drugs you want into that structure of reasoning.

    I'm not against science or medicine (which I have to qualify because of the outstanding quality of argument here). I also realize that stating what is in terms of negative medical effects of drugs does not say that we ought-not do drugs. But again, it comes down to one's particular brand of ethics. Logic and science have their limits to what they can be applied.
    No need to qualify your stance on science and medicine. I completely agree! Which 'side' of the debate a person falls on depends on their personal morality, as you've said before...

    I guess I just feel that a more rational and effective approach to North American drug policy and harm reduction would involve more rigorous scientific analysis of the harm and benefit potential of specific drugs, regardless of whether they are currently legal or illegal. I feel that there's a little too much emotional/moral decision-making when it comes to how drugs are perceived and controlled in popular culture.

    But I have to admit, I look at people who are regular coffee drinkers/caffeine dependent with a fair bit of irrational scorn. I definitely wouldn't make that life choice. But it tends to increase productivity rather than decrease it, so it fits in nicely with the moral schema of our culture.

     

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  26. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Drugs! Ah of course, it all makes sense in that context. Now I finally have a good explanation for liberalism.
    Did you ever look up "liberal" in a dictionary? Do you own a book?

    Are you familiar with how your own country came to exist? Denial of the god given right of Monarchy, herditary privilege, that kind of thing? Y'know, LIBERAL ideas?

    **Yeah, I'm aware that I'm taking a cheap shot at political ideologies that I don't share... shoot me.**
    Yeah, I'm aware that I'm taking a cheap shot at an idiot, please don't shoot me as it's free speech and I'm not in the subset of Euro countries that will give me a gun to shoot back...
    Gah..

    Last edited by Flake; December 8th, 2012 at 12:47 AM.
     

  27. #197
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    Yeah I think this one has run its course.

    All you junkies go get high and draw and you tight-ass straights, just draw.

     

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