Ringling School/ Florida

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    Ringling School/ Florida

    Hey All,

    I noticed many of the people who post here attended Ringling School of Art in Florida. I'm thinking of going back to school for illustration (only 23 mind you). I'd really like to find a school that will not only help my drawing but also really emphasize/incorportate the computer as well. I'd like to stay in state, and Ringling seems like the best place down here. Anyone who's attended Ringling have any advise?

    I'd welcome out of state suggestions as well. All you Art Center students are doing some killer stuff!

    By the way I love the site. I found it yesterday and I'm continually amazed with every click. Thanks!

    The Buffalo- flabberghasting the flabby

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    RSAD

    i'm attending ringling as a computer animation student, but i have several friends who are in illustration, graphic design, and fine arts. basically, because this school is ungodly expensive, the only reason to come here would be the CA department (its more difficult to get into, but they get first dibs on the cash flow and thus have superior equipment/faculty/etc...); the illustration department is good, but i dont think it is as good as what you'll end up paying for. i had a friend who spent their core year here(freshman year that all majors go through unless you have some serious transfer credits) but ended up going to art center in cali. as far as the illustration department goes...or for any other major i guess, is that you'll get out of it what you put in; if you're hard worker and go as far as to sit in on as many upper level classes as you can manage, then you'll come out a badass...whatever. the only thing about the ringling illustration department is that it is kind of...the 'default' major; as in, incoming students that dont know what they want to do when they grow up (astronaut, fireman) all end up in illustration, which means you'll probably end up in a bunch of classes with (believe it or not) people that cant draw and furthermore dont have any interest in drawing. dont get me wrong, there are some extremely good illustration students here, along with a very skilled faculty, but percentage-wise its mostly a bunch of losers. i work out with one of the illustration teachers (shawn barber; http://www.sdbarber.com/ ) and he is one of the hardest working people i have ever met in my life, and is also one of the most talented. but he is one of a few, and if they keep over-filling the illustration classes with gigantic incoming freshman, well, its only going to get harder for the faculty to actually help the students, and its going to water down even further the good student:worthless student ratio. if you have to come to ringling, you might as well be CA since it is seriously the only major worth a damn here (dont even get me STARTED on the graphic design or fine arts losers...which unfortunately make up about 90% of my friends. they love when i dog gic). so, be CA, and if you have extra time (which you wont but we can pretend) sit in or take some upper level illustration classes.

    hope this helps, and maybe i'll get some hate posts from some gic losers (keep tracing those fonts, you crazy bastards)

    just kidding guys (not really, they are losers, but i kid because i love)

    mike

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    gosh...the above post is interesting...hahaha...considering I went to ringling and studied illustration there...Puddnhead was one of the FINE ART LOSERS you mention....SD Barber was in illustration with me....James zhang was in Illustration...Jim Moore of Factor Five Games studied with us at ringling in the Illustration dept....andrew jones went to ringling(i include him even though he was a Comp Anim major because he sat in the illustration classes and does illustration for a living)...the list is long...i have friends at disney..many game companies...funnybone...you name it...there are just as many successful people that have come out of RSAD in recent years as art center.

    THIS SITE YOU ENJOY WOULD NOT EXIST IF IT WERE NOT FOR RINGLING SCHOOL OF ART AND DESIGN BEING A GREAT PLACE TO MAKE CONNECTIONS...and i would not be a concept artist had I not met who i met there....james zhang turned me on to concept art when he got his job at lucas...i was studying traditional fine art and planned to be an oil painter.


    art center is twice as expensive as ringling once you figure in cost of living. you can still get a burger and fries in sarasota for five or six bucks (not mikky Dees)...that same burger and fries in Pasadena will run you closer to thirteen bucks. I had a 2500 square foot four bedroom house with a big backyard...pool...two car garage..etc..in sarasota for 1300 bones. In Pasasdena that house would run you about 3000-4000 a month to rent...considering i could see the bay from my yard you might as well add on another thousand if you lived in so cal. (the same 1300 in so cal got me a six hundred sq foot one bedrm apt)

    Sarasota is a town that supports the art students with work on the job boards. I did not have to have a real job all the way thru my ringling time. I did murals..book illustration...fine art...painted furniture...you name it...i found art related work on a FREELANCE level all local to Sarasota. in Pasadena you would be competing with the professionals for those same little jobs and odds are you would get very few of them.

    the annual tuition at art center is more expensive as well...as are supplies in so cal..as is car insurance (you can get by without a car at ringling and housing is walking distance away...in pasadena the school is on top of a mountain surrounded by the smoggiest air you have seen. there is no affordable housing for miles.

    Museums are close to BOTH schools mentioned...the ringling musuem has some world class paintings and sculptures...same goes for the norton simon museum in pasadena. you can learn from the masters at either school.


    as far as the CA dept there at ringling being the god of gods...I have found that the percentage of people working right out of school tends to be about the same for both departments. of the thirty or whatever graduates in the CA dept each year only about five are worth looking at (if that)....same goes for the CA dept at any school.

    I have recieved portfolios from ringling CA people for the past few years applying for game modelling..animation...texture positions...do you know how many had portfolios who were ready to work in games? NOT MANY.

    do you know how many modellers in the animation dept at ringling there knew their anatomy...ONE-Andrew Jones.

    do you know how many had decent enuff color skills to do a texture position? none...same goes for lighting.

    how bout animation...there were a couple...though there were better available on the professional market.

    I was forced to hire most our people outside of rsad as i could not find people from the CA dept who met my needs on a 3d level...and that includes a recruting trip there two years ago with Justin Sweet back when i was at interplay. we hired andrew jones to draw and paint even though he was a 3d guy at the time (he is now the only north american concept artist for NINTENDO) and Chris Amaral (illustration) who eventually went on to sculpt toys for Todd Macfarlane.

    so how you like them apples mr pavlovich?


    jason manley
    illustration alum
    ringling school of art.



    PS...you will have to be self motivated there....same goes for EVERY art school out there. I have been handling hiring for more than a couple projects in the games industry. I am not getting portfolios from any one art school that are better than each other. For every Kchen or Feng at art center there is a Puddnhead or Android at Ringling.

    if you live in florida then go to ringling...its cheap to live there..you have people to help you....and you will get the connection to the employers...of which ringling is second to none. (in all my hiring and recruiting i have found ringlings career services dept to be the best by far...and that includes art center whose career dept was a PIA to deal with)


    good luck...if i had it to do over again i would not change a thing.


    however...Art Center and the schools in the big cities have a lot of great things going...none of what i say takes away from them...you can find quality in all of them...but all have the downsides too.


    and finally...in defense of the graphic design dept...brian mah went to ringling and now does film credits. puddnhead got his job at the film studio he works with due to Brians connections and his own hard work and skills he learned via his studies at ringling and the connections he made at ringling. Last I heard they were doing the credits to Daredevil and I saw one of puddnheads matte paintings from the upcoming treasure island. They were doing some stuff for the hulk as well.

    so there...

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    i totally agree some extremely good stuff has come out of the illustration department in the past, as i'm sure more will in the future. my main point is that, speaking in percentages, i know a lot of people in illustration (i'm talking the majority) who either cant draw or dont have any interest in trying. it may have been different when you came here, but i am thouroughly amazed by the inconsistency of student work in that department...speaking just from CA, most of the kiddos in this major have an incredible work ethic and know what they're doing and where they'd like to go. and most of the CA people i know can draw better than...lets say 88% of the illustration majors. i have nothing but the utmost respect for those people you mentioned and others that you didnt. the only reason i know about this site is FROM shawn barber himself (sorry to drop his name...AGAIN, i'm probably making a fool out of myself).

    my gic loser girlfriend is over and i have to go eat before i die but in closing, yes, california cost of living is nutx (which is why i'm not at calArt) but evan didnt go to art center because all the rap songs are about cali, its because art center has a better illustration department (there i said it). now AGAIN, before i get yelled at, you're only going to be as good as you put in, so in reality you can go study painting at your friendly neighborhood community college and bust your ass and you will be incredible blah blah blah. you may not have as good networking (excellent point that i hadnt thought of earlier, ringling has very deep and far reaching probes) but hey if you're that damn good somebody will see it unless you bury your stuff in the backyard

    time to go, thanks, sorry if i pissed anybody off (except those gic folks)

    -mike

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    art center does not have a better illustration dept...did you take classes at both schools in both depts? do you hire people from those schools? I didnt think so. I personally know faculty and students at and from both schools. Neither has a big advantage over the other.

    the CA dept at ringling is a small microcosm of what is actually going on...how many animators at ringling have work that looks as good as the guys who work at ILM or pixar?

    There are faculty members from both schools who contribute regularily on this site. There are people that have made huge success from both schools.

    on another note....the depts at ringling have rivalrys to a certain degree which is where i think the confusion comes from.

    when i went there my illustration friends would bag on the fine art dept...yet puddnhead was in fine art and sd barber sat in with that crowd...while we were painting advertising and editorial illustrations puddnhead was making life size figure paintings of whatever the hell he wanted...granted he did catch flack from the people making glitter footballs and rocks covered with rice and such in their attempts to find new ways of expression...he still maintained his ground and stuck it out.

    the fine art crowd would bag on the illustration crowd...and back and forth thru all depts. but the closer we all got to graduating the more we learned from each other and the more we depended on each other....my photo friends helped shoot my portfolio...I helped them with value composition...my fine art friends helped me with my personal work...etc..etc..the rivalry eventually disappeared.


    you will find incredible talent in all areas of the art schools programs. Ringling is a decent place to study both CA and traditional medias.


    how hard you study is up to you.

    Im going to be coming to ringling to look at 3d portfolios in feb. I will most likely have quite a few positions available. Andrew Jones and I will also be there to do a workshop with FEWS. We are going to be looking at portfolios and will be doing some serious grilling.

    mr pavlovich...i can see the hands in the drawings on your website...you should pay less attention to how the illustrators are drawing and more attention to what you are drawing.


    j


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    btw..pav...your comment about "the only reason i know about this site is because of sd barber" was funny....my response is that you should be lucky to have such good teachers...after all SD Barber is in the Illustration Dept. He just exposed you to a professional group that you would not have found as soon without his help. you should thank him.

    Ive been looking at portfolios for four years now from many different art schools. In all honesty I do hope that your class of 3d people are as strong as you suggest. I will be hiring soon and would love nothing more than to hire people from ringling.


    j

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    well said, i'm sorry if i knocked illustration a little hard (although that wasnt my intention...so much). as far as the rivalry goes, you're absolutely right, and this being my sophomore year here (i have an associates degree thats not worth much but it was a good start) its probably a little more pronounced than it should be. if i wasnt doing CA i would be in illustration, but thats about as far as i'm going to go with that. i wish i had time (or had the balls to make time, i guess) to attend fews more often, my figure work has gone downhill since i've started actually getting into the CA workload. so i'm an ass, illustration rocks, but i will never have a kind word to say about gic

    but seriously, thank you, i get your points, and i'm looking forward to seeing you once you get here, hope i didnt piss anybody (you or whoever) off too much, i've been working 50 hours a week at a shitty job all christmas break and its starting to wear on me. nobodys fault but my own i s'pose but money has to be made (it may not be cali but it still aint cheap)

    thanks again for giving me another perspective

    --mike

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    Yeah??!!! Well I went to the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale for Computer Animation and my work sucks!!!!

    (not that I doubt someone who is a professional now came from there)

    Its not the school....its what you make of it (in my worthless opinion)

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    I so admire you Jason. You can paint beautifully AND write an entire dissertation telling someone how it is. LOL, you just can't beat that combination.

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    Thanks

    Thanks for the information. It was certainly more than I was expecting. This site's memebers seem especially good at encouraging other artists and giving honest but constructive crits. I'll be posting some of my work soon. I look forward to hearing from you all.
    Ringling sounds just like what I'm looking for (competitive enviornment, quality work, good job placement...etc). I've met a few graduates from there over the years at life drawing classes and have always been impressed with their work. Art Center sounds great as well. I've seen the beautiful work that comes out of there. But if the two are on similar ground I'll choose the first for location and cost of living.
    Personally I see validity in all the artistic directions mentioned, although I'm partial to 2d illustration and fine art myself. Seems ridiculous that people take the time to merit arguing over the worthiness of one art form to another. But I suppose that's what people end up doing when they get bored.
    Thanks Pavlovich, J. Manley for your advise. I'll keep it in mind when deciding.:chug:

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    last one promise

    number one reason to come to ringling: its december 29th and i'm going to siesta beach. my friends in TEXAS cant even boast that shyt

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    Whoa to tell you the truth I'm sort of scared now of art schools. I mean that was good info. Mr.Manely thanks, but wow sounds like there are some intimidating artists in art schools.

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    art school is gravy compared to the professional world.


    its a lot of fun too...great people..lots of students doing inspiring stuff.

    the deadlines in art school are silly compared to the deadlines you will face as a pro. the CA dept at ringling gets at least half of their senior year to do a short animation. In the pro environment they might get three weeks for the same thing and it would have to be better than that.

    the illustrators get two weeks for a painting...sometimes a week. During the conceptual art pipeline at troika I was doing 8-12 paintings a WEEK.

    Puddnhead will tell you the same thing...same with mr jones...art school is a party compared to what is expected of you on a professional level. enjoy it people..it only lasts a few years...and then its on to the fat checks and car payments!


    j

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    Thanks for that you guys. I just loved it when Jaon said "granted he did catch flack from the people making glitter footballs and rocks covered with rice and such in their attempts to find new ways of expression"

    I can't wait to see that crap and laugh about it when I go to Art Center next year. I know its expensive as a buttcheek, but My dad's rich boss is paying it for me, because he always wanted to go, but didn't. So I'll be seeing anyone else who goes there next year.

    P.S and robert ashley, I agree with you when u said: "Its not the school....its what you make of it "

    -http://iwasink.com/-
    DS Illustration
    "Get reference.
    There is nothing wrong with using a photo to help you see things.
    No one complains about life drawing,
    so take a photo.
    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."
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    I'm currently attending ringling. This is my freshmen year and i am in CA. I'd have to agree that there are alot of kids who don't give a shit in illustration, but there are alot of kids who do. It's just like highschool. There are kids who want to learn and there are kids who don't. From what i've seen, CA kids tend to work their asses off more then Illustration kids. My judgement comes from FEWS. If your going to fews everynight and sitting in on classes like me then you are making a strong effort to improve. If your not. Then your just adverage. Before i came to ringling i saw andrewjones's stuff. I was blown away. I learned all about what he did to be so great and now i'm doing just what he did. This is only my first year and i'm busting my ass off...this second semmester i'm working even harder. You can't really say that CA is better then Illustration. It's all up to the artist. I kinda think CA has better artist then Illustration. The only work i've seen is the freshmen class. Maybe it's my class??
    When i'm talking to an illustrator and they ask me what major i'm in...i tell them CA and they give me a look. They say "ohh one of those guys". Then they say, "no wonder you draw so good." Even to my friends. Yeah...ringling is awesome though. It's the best school i think. I love going ot school everyday and at the end of the day it's even better cause of FEWS. Then you go home and draw all night. You've got great NICE people to help you everywhere. And there is always people visiting. Goto ringling. It's great.

    Jason, when do you come down? And how long?
    Can't wait to draw in the same room with you both!
    You guys are the reason why i am working so hard...i'm working hard to try and be better then you were when you came to ringling! If that is possiable...mainly just to be the best artist i can possably be! But you guys give so much inspiration. Thank you so much!

    Ok...please no one kill me...if you were on campus...we all talk trash about all the majors...it's good fun.

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    I’m also a first year Computer Animator and id have to agree with most of what is said by Jason Manley and Brokencow...

    One thing I do think Jason Manley has to know is the CA department has gotten alot harder to get into in the past few years because Ringling has gotten alot more press when it comes to publications and animation festivals...the acceptance rate was 15% this year in the CA department and they accepted people based almost solely on how good they can draw…..I had a recruiter that was an illustration alumni (from ReelFX) tell me personally that the CAs this year seem to be much better artist than in years past....its getting better every year

    Pavolich seems to be really strong voiced in his personal opinion...and I hope (know) the reason you didn’t choose Ringling was just to go to the beach...so please quit causing controversy on purpose (especially to our future recruiters)

    Also Jason Manley going along with your idea of its what you put into the school. Alot of the Senior Computer Animators have gotten internships at really good companies and most say they have to work twice as hard at Ringling than at the companies, so maybe-according to the professional world-Ringling does give "easy" assignments but no ones going to just do bare minimum here I can guarantee that.

    I hope you are impressed with the Portfolios this year...and im glad you are taking the time to consider our school and come to FEWS...


    ......For anyone looking to attend a art school do your RESEARCH.....alot of art schools are out there, and you want the one that is best in your department...I can personally recommend Ringling for Computer Animation. I don’t know from experience about any of the other departments here because I am not in them but I know alot of kids that transfer to Ringling from other art schools and love it much more here......in all departments.

    Also never think the school is going to make you...if you don’t think you are ready to make 24/7 commitments to art don’t come to this school.....please.

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    thanks guys.

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    to put something in perspective...interns at professional companies are like precollege kids at ringling.....compared to the seniors, the precollege kids got it easy.


    j

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    Nice to see my old post is still up and running. I've already sent away to Ringling for their catalogue as well as a few other schools throughout the US and abroad. I like the sound and feel of Ringling so far. But out of curiousity - aside from Art Center what other schools do you all consider tops. Where's the competition coming from? What about the UK/Europe? Anything suggestions. I'm looking not only for great training but also an experience.

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    Most recruiters consider seriden and calarts the other top animation schoools

    ....i prolly didnt spell seriden right

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    Thanks!

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    Buffalo-You might want to visit Ringling the weekend of Jan 30-31. That weekend is National Portfolio Day here, so schools from all over the nation will be here to represent themselves and you can get all the info you need. Android and Jason Manley will also be here for FEWS. our figure drawing club. If you are interested in drawing with us then, send me a PM. You'd be welcome to join us. And of course, you'd get to see Ringling also.

    As for other schools
    Yes, Art Center is up there. If you live on the west coast.
    Sheridan and CalArts used to be up there, but ever since Traditional Animation has fallen commercially, so have these schools programs. Or so I've heard. Now, since Computer Animation seems to be dominating the feature and gaming industry, our school is considered the best around (it was one of the first to offer a program in CA).

    I can also say, since I have attended a workshop there, that the Academy of Art College in San Francisco has a decent Illustration department and its in a cool city. However, the school is not run well because its for profit and there are way too many students there. However, you could still go there and do very well, as a lot of people have, and you'd already be in an area with lots of jobs.

    Last edited by benzo; January 13th, 2003 at 11:47 PM.
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    well it sure sounds like all you CA peeps at ringling have been working your ass off. I shall find out with my own eyes when I am there with andrew. Both he and I have spoken about this...and have agreed that we will be shredding portfolios and egos with "a cold sharp dose of reality" if this is not the case.

    jason

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    One more thing. If you love to draw, go into Illustration, not animation. Sometimes I regret not going to Illustration at Ringling. I remember Android telling me its what he wished he had done. You should follow your heart and not worry about the future; it will all work out in the end if you work hard enough.

    At Ringling we have FEWS, which is a figure drawing club with sessions three hours every night, five nights a week. I don't know of any other school with something like this and it really makes a difference over time in improving your drawing skills. Many of the artists on this site who went to Ringling also went to FEWS.

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    yeah..FEWS is a good thing...I did see that you all have finally got one night a week of one pose. You have no idea how much I had to go through to get even a twenty minute pose while I was there. It seems things are organized better now too. Congrats to that. You have all set up a great opportunity for those who want to draw.

    I do have some thoughts about all the gesture drawing that goes on though....

    an issue with only doing short term drawings is that you never take the time to really look and to really see. This is one of the reasons that the anatomy/form/lighting/value/color knowledge of the CA group tends to need work even at the senior level. Gesture drawing naturally helps the eye to see weight and movement quickly..and recognizably. Only having a primary focus on 1-5 min poses will lead to problems later in an artists studies..

    A balanced focus on both short and long term will increase the artists knowledge of LIGHT and FORM and ANATOMY....as well as movement and weight which are also a part of long term sessions.

    as video game and film animation and 3d moves more toward the realistic with each passing day, it is important to understand the kinds of things that only long term drawing can give you. I will say these words again...light...form...anatomy...space....even a 3d artist must know how the eye actually sees. to understand how the eye sees...concentrated long term sessions must be struggled through. I can see a 3d portfolio and know if that artist has a firm understanding of long term seeing. I can see it immediately. It is one of the things I look for when I am hiring. However..while games and film 3d move toward the realistic, I am also aware that this kind of long term study will improve stylized work as well. Consider long term drawing sessions as eating your artistic wheaties.

    when i used to go to fews I remember watching the "gesture only" crowd get blocked up when we would move to any session past five minutes. A ten minute drawing tended to look like a five minute drawing with some extra outlines...an artist can not learn to see if he or she is not forced to look. The more you learn to see (the kind of seeing that only comes from long term study) the more your stylized work will improve as well.


    well..like i said..at least there is one night of a medium length pose. I am hoping to see some great stuff while I am at Ringling. I know there is a good talent base to pull from and I also know the environment is great for study. I totally look forward to seeing you all and your work.


    just some thoughts....


    jason

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    I dont post much, but i would like to say that im ringling CA, and i think the program is really good, but much more oriented to those who are interested in 3d. I know a lot of animators here who wish they were doing more 2d or traditional animation. Make sure you know what you wanna do before you come here. If you are interested in traditional 2d animation then go to Cal arts.

    whatch out for, those Cal arts folks, they got three times the arrogence of the RSAD's i know from experience

    and if you are interested in animation at all stay the hell away from RISD,

    its a crappy, crappy program. I went there for pre-c
    but good illustration program

    I hope that was helpful, bare-bones, and too the point

    I hate rambeling

    Happy Huntin' good buddy

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    Originally posted by Jason Manley

    I do have some thoughts about all the gesture drawing that goes on though....

    an issue with only doing short term drawings is that you never take the time to really look and to really see.


    OOOOOOh thank you very much!

    I'm a Jr. Illustration major at RSAD. (sdbarber student) and gestures kinda piss me off. Not on principle, but because the kids i see that are "good" at it are just repeating a system, just going through the motions of a preset program. I've found that a TONE of the work at FEWS looks super alike. This no knew concept. I've been told this before and it wasn't until I started to go to FEWS regularly that I experienced it. Is it a complaint? I wouldn't really say so but I certainly don't think a good gesture should be worshiped on the level it is (at least from the way they're treated here). I can't draw them the way oldschool FEWSers can. I just use gesture drawing as a way to loosen up my drawing, help me to get more comfortable w/ my own mark but at the same time I try not to compramise style and technique. It doesn't seem right to have everyone married to that Disney line weight style of drawing...it looks cookie cutter to me.

    For the record I HAD to go to Savannah College of Art and Design my first year of college and really should not be any complaining coming from anyone about the quality of Ringling. You'll have slackers everywhere that's just the nature of people but don't even get me started on how much better Ringling is then SCAD.

    Last edited by Tristan; February 1st, 2003 at 01:08 AM.
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    well know this...I do not want to see entire portfolios of those disney cookie cutter gestures. they are mostly soulless disney dogma and only a hundredth as important to me as something that shows "eye and creativity" I can not hire anyone on a portfolio of those alone. One or two pages is fine...but doing that as a staple of the portfolio to secure jobs is a myth (UNLESS YOU ONLY WANT TO WORK FOR DISNEY or 2d animation). you might get a job as an inbetweener with a portfolio like that but dont expect much more. Its not hard to find people for inbetweening jobs now either due to the state of the industry too. DO you think that the pros are showing those? well they probably still have some in their portfolio as keepsakes.

    I get portfolio after portfolio like that from the ringling crowd every single year. That aint it people...trust me. It is an advantage the art center crowd has...they dont do that from what I have seen...but as andrew might note "the art center crowd has their own cookie cutter style and program highlights"

    you see...part of the issue with art school all the way in florida is that the faculty are not often aware of what the different industries need to see in their portfolios. This is the PRIMARY reason for andrew's and my visit there. I have hired two art teams this year already and will hire another this spring. I have not yet been able to utilize the Ringling crowd as the portfolios do not as of yet apply well to jumping right into the game field. Disney is THE COMPANY there and has heavy swing. it is too bad come hiring time that disney is only on of the thirty different recruiters to show up at career services. it is too bad too that disney hires only one or two people often times....what about everyone else?

    there is not one job in video games where someone could be hired with a portfolio of those gestures. Sending them out is a waste of time. Including your best page of them...maybe one of animals and one of figures is enough to show that you know that lines have wieght and that you have sketching ability. the question I want to know is...WHAT ELSE DO YOU SKETCH now that you know one tiny technical aspect of drawing? How do you put that to use???? Can you think??? Can I see thinking giong on and not quick visual note taking? There are no jobs for note takers in games.

    unless your quick gesture pages look as nice as El Coro justin kaufman's on the main page then dont waste my time with fifty pages of them. I will look at them at fews and give input. I had enough semesters of figure to communicate and help. However, come hiring day...show me the goods...not those....UNLESS THEY ARE JUST THAT GOOD.

    When I was at Ringling I remember I walked into an interview with a different large game company. I sat down and the guy says..."let me show you a portfolio of what you should not show me!" you want to know what it was??? it was one of those soulless ringling/disney scripted gesture portfolios. He then said...let me show you an ideal portfolio. Do you want to know what it was? It was andrew jones portfolio full of ideas. He said to me "i cant teach you to do this...anyone can learn to do gestures given time...thinking is difficult!". I think andrew had a page or two of heads in there...a page or two of gestures...and that was it. The rest was andrew putting those skills to use.

    I CAN SEE IF YOU CAN GESTURE DRAW IF YOU DO YOUR OWN DRAWINGS! I can see it in all of your work. It is not a means to an end.


    I will go into this more while I am there. I will go into exact specifics and will discuss portfolio building at length.



    jason

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    woaaaaah

    i didnt post the 'beach' comment to stir up more trouble, i posted it because i thought the whole 'bashing' thing was getting a little heavy and out of hand. manley, i love you, this wasnt an attack on illustration, or you personally (contrary to popular belief). illustration rocks. illustration is hard. ca rocks. ca is hard. if you want to succeed, you have to work. school is hard, the field is harder. uhhh...did i leave anything out?

    i still honestly dont think i was waaay off base in my response; it's crowded, things have changed, and i dont think necessarily for the better. BUT

    sorry i started the whole hate mongering reply, hopefully it will steer itself back toward the original question. but i think the most disturbing aspect of this entire thing is that nobody has come to the defense of the graphic designers. i guess that just goes to show you that the forum dictates the kind of support you will get. ie, dont post something that speaks less than well of anything having to do with illustration on this site. if you want to do that, i guess you can go to a graphic design forum, since apparently illustration and graphic design seem to be very separate animals. just like if you want to talk about how much CA sucks and how you're not going to get a job when you graduate ringling (something i remember somebody saying waaaay earlier, mabye not in so many words but that was the message i got out of it) its ok to do it here but dont do it in the ringling CA forum. actually you probably could do it in the Ringling CA forum, seeing as how nobody seems to ever go there....

    https://saffron.rsad.edu/forums/

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    pavlovich.....uhm...what are you talking about?

    no one ever said that the CA dept sucks...it is one of the top programs for CA in the country. No one said CA peeps would never get a job either. That is silly. I have CA friends who work on many great projects...including stuff for ILM.

    I did say that I couldnt hire one person out of CA for the past two art teams I put together...and that i was forced to hire out of other schools. That has little to do with the quality of the students and program...it has more to do with the lack of portfolios that reflect what I needed to see to hire game animators, modellers, lighters and texturers.

    the above posts will hopefully help that situation to a degree.

    you have much to learn my new friend...be patient and you will hear what is being said.

    the latest posts are not attacks on the CA or Illustration crowd...they are simply noting the issues why the games companies are hiring artists more and more from within the industry and the mods community instead of the art schools. Andrew is aware of this as are the other pros that I deal with. This is the primary reason we are coming to visit ringling. The faculty need to be aware of the new requirements as does career services...as do all of you looking for work.

    At this point it is easier for me to hire a talented mod maker from the quake community or the half life community then it is to hire someone with a great education at rsad or risd or the others. Game makers even on an amateur level have portfolios that are more appropriate to the specific job. The necessary adjustments in portfolio takes little time. I often wonder why the right stuff is not included. ( a portfolio of gestures based NOT on what you are seeing but on what disney tells you to see is not the answer...and thust my last post)

    THE KINDS OF THINGS I AM SAYING will be restated and hammered during our entire visit there. those who really want to know what they need to do to prepare will hear me. those who are not ready to hear what I am saying will make it out as something else.

    no one needs to come to any defense for the graphic designers because it is NOT about that. AT ALL. you are twisting words and going off in some strange direction with that. I think you are the only one seeing things as you are. I suggest that instead of trying to stir up trouble you should focus on your art portfolio and work on your budding skills.

    btw...that forum is for rsad students only...you need a password and ringling username.


    j

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