I can't really comment on that as I haven't really worked for that many clients yet. I'm still in school, after all
I think however that the general idea is, you do what your client wants from you. If he tells you he just wants an idea, then even a pencil sketch is good enough. Photo cropping/kitbashing is all just tricks about speed. Conceptartist is more about being able to get your client's desire into an idea that he can see in some way. In a perfect world, sure, you're davinchi and picasso combined- you come out with an awesome idea and then make an awesome painting- but you can survive being a conceptartist even if you are not god-level at art. I think. I hope. :p
@ Vak I agree.I guess time constraints,hence the photos.
I have decided to approach my improvement in modules or stages so I can focus on my fundamentals one at a time.So this week,it shall be all about value.I will be posting works only in black and white.Next week will be perspective,even though I would keep an eye trying to get it right this week.So guys,did these today,focusing on value:
Last edited by melviso; November 25th, 2012 at 08:02 PM.
Made the buildings in the mid-ground the focal point with the highest value,while using the red cape to draw the viewers eye to the guy and robot thingy.
Made her hair highlights the lighest value and red band on her head to draw attention to her face.
This was done starting with line drawings first.Lightest value-the fumes from the ship to the light from the tunnel exit door.Red on space ship to draw viewer's eye.Basically warm colors tend to pop,attracting attention while cool colors recede.More practice...
I won't mind about ideas in those concepts... i'm pretty sure that everything you can come up with it has already been done because you're not doing concept art in here, you're learning to paint and draw and there's a lot of difference. I'm not saying this to shoot you down, i'm saying this to keep you on the ground (where we are) and ease that much pressure you're building up on yourself because man, this stuff is HARD to learn... if you start thinking about the high end stuff right now you will be crushed.
About clients well... they don't care if you're doing visual development. If your work is made to develop an idea on what a scene could look like then you can kitebash something with textures, draw a bunch of stuff and add some details and the job is done. BUT forget about using that stuff to build up anything in 3D. The artists able to build that kind of things in linedrawings as well are those that are working on the BIG stuff out there. This is because you can learn to put a bunch of texture and stuff all over the place and make a cool looking image in a very short period of time and there are a lot of artists that can do that but it take years to be able to think and draw your designs in a 360°. It's not an easy world ^^
I don't understand u.Are u saying I should concentrate on learning to paint and draw(which is what I am doing) rather than concept art and what do u mean there is a lot of difference?Sorry,ur English is a little off so I have trouble understanding how u put some words together.Of course,the concepts are sorta downplayed,or simple,because I am trying to focus on my fundamentals.Will make no sense if I come up with a cool design and the fundamentals are wrong.I have a lot of brillant ideas and I am saving them for when I get better.
And u are sorta trying to shoot me down,u didn't even comment if I am getting better in composition with these I have posted,u are now ignoring criticising my fundamentals and talking about the ideas being done before.Everything I can ever come up with cannot possibly be done before.Believe me,I have a lot of cool crazy ideas.
Ur blog kinda shows nothing much,only some characters in black/white and a thread about some game.Don't mean to be rude,but I don't really mind about those concepts especially those on ur blog.U could show something more awesome since u appear to have the fundamentals down.
On a side note,I do appreciate ur feedback but lets stick to the criticism of fundamentals since I have been told by u and others here my fundamentals are wrong.I have been working on getting better on those terms.Anyone seeing the works I posted earlier can tell I have very good ideas,especially the story behind a piece but ur opinion does not necessarily mean others feel the same way cause I have been posting my work on other forums to get better and to be honest, I have learnt a lot from the other threads than here and they have been more helpful with paintovers,helpful links and examples to get their criticism across.
Btw Vak.Been trying ur line technique suggestion.Using lines/sketches to get form,details and structure down,one can now worry about color and composition more easily.Thanks.
Last edited by melviso; November 28th, 2012 at 07:06 AM.
That's the kind of mentality that most self-taught artists tend to have, including myself, and it's also the kind of mentality you want to ditch somewhere in a dark place, coat it with petrol and set it on fire, like I did.
I will agree that Hitsu's words do come off with an edge, but what he says is true. Everything you draw has probably been done before. That's not to say you don't have cool ideas, I'm sure you do. Everyone has a ton of cool ideas. Ideas are cheap. Like someone I really respect once said, even the cleaning lady of some mall has cool ideas- but can she communicate them on paper? Probably not. Can you? Sure, better than that lady, but not to the level that clients will expect. So you should stop trying to create a cool spaceship or a hot chick with green armor that I can't really make sense of, and draw some studies. Really really draw studies. Draw a real plate armor, not paint, but draw. If you can't copy an armor (without tracing it) to a level where it looks cool, how can you paint one that is 90% made up?
Em..Vak..u are self taught?I thought u are a student at fzd school.
I know he had a point and I was kinda defensive but I think Hitsu's criticisms have been coming across as aloof and kinda annoying.If he wants to say something,simply say it instead of adding words like ridiculous,stupid.He getting too frequent with it and its starting to irritate me.
Look at the way u have explained ur reasons,logical and without mockery,likewise on other forums,I get negative feedback but with simple and direct words and if possible detailed explanations,not someone who will criticise you and then add certain words that are unneccesary and aloof.
Will start sketches using references.Thanks for the constructive critique.
Dude, everything you see on my blog is done in under 30 minute. I do those stuff when i'm done working (after 8 hours at least of drawing and painting) so i draw whatever i want in there, it's not meant to be awesome. And in my pause time (like 5 minutes every 2 hour) i come here and give you (and to the others) some useful tips. If you expect to receive paintovers and extended explanation about art i think you need to aim for some class. The main thing about concept art is the ability to understand and adapt an idea and i don't think you understand what you're drawing yet. You think you do because what you're doing is a massive effort to learn a lot but you're just adding an heavy weight into your mind when you must focus on the ability to communicate your ideas in primis at a good level and then focus on learning how can you do concept art. I know it seems but concept art is not about having an idea and putting it on paper. I'm pretty sure that Vak will agree on this but doing concept art is about having an idea, doing a lot of research and study about that idea, putting it on context, giving the idea a purpose and THEN putting it on paper many times until you find what you was looking for. When you see people drawing something really cool (the best guys i can think of are Feng Zhu and Nicolas Bouvier) like incredible environments or super cool characters without doing all of this stuff i just mentioned is ONLY because they have already done it before so many times that they already have an incredible visual library (which is not just looking at stuff as someone may think).
So bud, you're not doing concept art, get over it! Focus on learning your basics at the best you can do it and then develop your idea into concept art with the skills that you're trying to learn with so much effort! If you fill your mind with the idea of doing concepts and learning basics at the same time you just can't do it, it's just too much, they are two different process. It's like learning to drive a car and to do stunts at the same time, you will probably end up crushing into some wall before learning something useful.
Anyway i was like you when i was in school you know, so jealous about my ideas (which is not a bad thing nowdays) and so proud of what i was doing that i couldn't get better in any possible way (which indeed is a bad thing, sadly strengthened by the fact that i had teachers that weren't as good as i was... damn it kept me for getting better for something like 6 years because i was so arrogant, and in reality i was so mediocre). I hope you can get rid of that attitude as soon as possible because when you do that you start learning from the others and not only from yourself.
PS: Ridiculous and stupid.
PPS: I'm sorry about my english but it's not my main language and i'm getting used to use it only recently, anyway it's 2 times in less than 24 hours that i manage to piss off someone or i'm getting better at it or the reality i try to show it's not appreciated. If that's the case it will be very sad to know that i've wasted some time to try to make you become a better artist.
Okay..there is something I need to make clear.Since Green riding hood,the works I have been posting are not intended as concept artworks but studies.Since I have been told my fundamentals are lacking,that has been what I have been working on.I was not trying to create some girl with cool armour,or a cool aircraft (that wasn't the focus hence the ridiculous amour)and try and pass them off as concept art.I know my work isn't professional yet and I am working towards it.
I have been trying to improve my painting skills,blending,color theory,value and perspective.The last one was me trying to focus on composition/perspective and it looks better because I did a sketch first.With repeated practice,I will get better so I am going to continue posting paintings.Lets not lose focus of the fundamentals,the concept is not important cause I am not focusing on that.
So kindly disregard the artworks as concept art/ideas and focus on them as studies or painting practice.
Still no answer whether the composition is correct in those last three painting attempts.So the next works I will be posting are not concept art.
Last edited by melviso; November 28th, 2012 at 11:03 AM.
Personally i'm not telling you every mistake you're making because it will become very hard to me to follow your thread. In general your composition is almost fine but you have a lot of problems with camera angle and perspective, and we are not talking about the fact that every picture you're putting in here is kinda blurry and sketchy at the point that it's hard to understand the whole image. This facts are telling me that you are not able to draw with lines too and you don't know what 3d drawings is.
BUT i don't like to do this kind of talk man, it will be like this for every thing you post in here and it's kinda pointless to me. It's much better if you understand directions at this point. You need to learn to draw correctly so you can paint what you've drawn. When you've learned how to paint correctly then you can learn how to setup a composition. When you've learned to setup a composition you can learn how to do concept art. It's a chain and you're starting in the middle of it, the problem is that now you don't know in which direction you have to go, and we can't tell you either what's the best for you at this stage.
So start drawing and learn 3d drawing and perspective first. Then you will paint what you've learned to draw.
I like your ideas. You have the vision to do good work. However your technique need refining. The major thing that ruins your scenes for me is your edge control. It is all over the place, making your pictures hard to read sometimes. How can you fix this?.. By understanding how light turns a form. I'm posting here a couple of quickie tutorials that can help with this issue.
The first 2 are by Greg Pro.
Then Ron Lemen's Lighting conditions for heads.
The last one is David Brigg's painting explaining simple single source lighting across a basic sphere.
you are not spending enough time on your sketches. What you show here are more thumbnails than sketches. At this point I believe you should be spending around 10-12 hours in a drawing like this before calling it done. Try to capture a) Proportions b) good silhouettes and last c) Good detail. Lineweight and all that can come later but right now I don't believe you will learn much by doing this level of sketch because you are not really defining anything. You are also avoiding the use of complicated perspective, or sometimes avoiding the use of perspective at all.
To list: Your first drawing what you have is basically a box with windows. Look at a real building. It is actually much more detailed than that. I can see you put some effort in the windows overlapping panes and such, but you're using killer-thick lines which is good for hiding a bunch of detail that you don't wanna show, yes, but you won't learn as much.
Your second drawing is a close up shot of 3 people torso up. This lets you get away with not actually figuring out where they stand or how their bodies turn. Limited learning.
The third image is a sideview castle on a weird slope of mountains or rock that are concaving in a way that rocks will not naturally concave in this world, and then you have some 'sticker' foreground characters that we cannot see where they stand. It makes for a cool composition, but it's not really done. Try finishing some stuff. Maybe then you'll attract some people that can really give you some good advice in this thread other than us quasi-pro wannabes.
Hey i'm a professional for vg industry actually, junior concept artist of course but still...
I have to add only one thing to the last Vak's post: learn your medium too, your drawing software or whatever you're using It is super important to know how to use your medium efficiently... this is another step you're missing badly.
Actually what you're doing now are exercises, not studies. You're taking what you know and think you know and doing illustrative compositions. We can tell you to "do studies", but you lack a direction, you're trying to accomplish too much with what you don't know, or haven't tried. Have you drawn any shoes yet?
No, I'm not kidding. Sit down and STUDY a pair of your shoes.
Next post I see, I want line drawings of your shoes with laces. God help you if you don't draw the laces!
Don't make up shoes, draw ones that you own.
Don't bother with shading or color just yet, I want see that you understand proportions, perspective, form, use of line weight in communicating details and direction.
I want to see at least 3 different angles, no orthogonal, no isometric.
Take your time on them, no pictionary rush jobs.
Last edited by InfernoKing; November 29th, 2012 at 09:48 PM.
Thanks for the heads up guys.I know what I am gonna say next will probably be met with some negative feedback.I have decided to focus on my painting skills.That is where I need to get better,I am going to tackle form,structure and perspective all at once with my next works and how am I going to do that?By doing the following-
-Collecting references/pictures of the subject matter I need for a concept and studying the form and structure by painting them till I get it right hence building my visual library gradually.
-Do various sketches of how I can incoporate these into an idea or concept.
-When I am happy with one,using the sketch as a reference,I will paint it.
-Not to spend less than 12 hours on a painting,if I am getting it wrong,will consult references to make sure.The last painting I did proves I am heading in the right direction.
I know Hitsu is going to say I am going to get crushed but the fact is I am a very fast learner and I can handle it.One will never know until an attempt is made.I remember a lot of my animator friends who said Retas Pro was hard to learn.I figured all the tools and process in 2 days,was kinda wondering why everyone said its hard.Already,I have figured out value,composition and warm/cool colors.The problem is I spend 2 hours on a painting and call it done.Another thing is I do not res up my painting to like 5000px or higher,I work in 1280px which is too low hence the bad brush strokes.I will not be posting works all the time cause I have decided to take at least 2 to 4days to focus on one piece and get down all the fundamentals.I will learn better that way.
As for the sketches,I got a book and pen that I am going to use to sketch stuff from magazines/books.I am gonna work hard.Hopefully by December ending,I would have leapt in development to feng zhu's level (if the world doesn't end by then).
Btw,I live in Africa and as much as I hate to say this,we do have serious power failures & supply issues over here.Most of the work I have done here were with a generator set.I am not giving up.I am going to get all this down.I love challenges and this is going to be one of them.Till I post my next work which is going to be only one,back to practice.
Last edited by melviso; November 30th, 2012 at 07:42 AM.
I think i'll follow your steps and take a guitar, so by the end of december i'll be able to play it like Santana because i'm a fast learner too.
You're just "a little bit" delusional my friend. You know, drawing experts can look at a sketch an tell at what level is the one that have made it and here EVERYONE is telling you that you're a beginner and you must study beginners stuff because THOSE are the things that makes you a better artist.
So the question is: are all the artist in here (which we are 10 years ahead of your current skills at least, probably more, from professionals to professional students by the best schools in this planet) wrong? or maybe you're overestimating yourself?
Hitsu,pls don't ever reply to this thread again.I think u have serious poor ppl relations skills.U alreadly admitted u have a problem pissing ppl off.If u are going to use words like delusional and sarcasm,find someone else to give criticism laced with those jabs.For goodness sake,ur just a junior concept artist,get off ur high horse.Keep ur criticisms,I don't need them.
Originally Posted by Hitsu//San
sadly strengthened by the fact that i had teachers that weren't as good as i was... damn it kept me for getting better for something like 6 years mediocre).
Yeah right..u were better than ur teachers.U are really kinda full of urself.
I am gonna ignore whatever u are gonna post next cause I know u are gonna start an arguement.So Goodday..
Last edited by melviso; November 30th, 2012 at 08:39 AM.
This is what you've got by that words because You are full of yourself, what i meant it that i was very mediocre and my teachers where under the mediocre level, and it's pretty clear you know...
Anyway i'am a junior concept artist right now, but you don't know anything about my previous jobs, who tells you that i didn't draw illustration on paper for years for another kind of industry before switching career? (true story)
Damn Melviso, you're making me wasting my time here because i think you can do something good but you're so close minded and full of yourself that you will never become any good unless you stop acting like a spoiled brat. But i had enough of your bullshits and your crappy drawings dude, this is the first time in years that i turn down on helping someone to be a better artist and i am really sad to do it but whatever. You don't deserve this kind of attention you're getting in here so... good luck with you'r bright future, i'm sure that Feng Zhu will have to watch his back from the next month.
Its not really drama, people are trying to help this guy. It's like some dudes all " yo I'm going to learn quantum physics" but they keep messing up algebra and people keep saying "yo you need to study algebra" and then the dudes all "no I want to learn quantum physics, not algebra"
That pretty much sums up what's going on in this thread..
Having said that, I'm pretty sure any practice will help in some way over no practice and all.
I think I am going to be doing my concept art in this style.Since I have an animation background,it would be good practice for my lineart,sketching and coloring skills.Just thought of a kinda journalist character exploring a deserted city.Where have all the people gone and why?
The problem with blocking is that while good for basic composition, unless you take it to a more refined step a lot of detail in the subject matter can get lost, which means less information about the subject isn't conveyed to the viewer/audience/client. A concept designer must communicate details and information visually. If you don't present a clear image, we don't get a clear understanding.
For instance your shoe and sword studies: the laces get lost with the tongue and the shoe upper. You hid the other shoe behind the front one, losing potential information about the inside of the toe cap. Your edges are messy. The logo on the forward shoe has these black line across it, is that part of the logo or are their upper laces? is there stitching? material detail on the orange that differs from the black?
Same goes for the sword, the blade edge is lost in the cast shadow, which then gets lost in the bounce light from the surface it's lying on. Say I didn't know swords, I might wonder what relation the shiny black blob next to it supposed to be (sheathe I know)? impending balloon animal?
Your line art however, communicates much clearer with everything.
Composition suggestion, for the first one, if by your story the city is abandoned we can't tell. All we see is a low angle shot a figure in the immediate foreground looking up at normal looking buildings. Maybe he's just someone who likes to admire what sky can be seen in an urban environment?
We have no reference of what he's sees in front of him. If he stays in the foreground, trying position the camera more at hip height or over the shoulder, so we can see the street level...are there abandoned cars? trash debris? damaged structures?
Thanks inferno king.As for the city,the abscence of debris,overgrown weeds,cars is intentional.People in the city have mysteriously disappeared for over a year and surprisingly everything remains normal,the streets are clean,even the windows are spotless,not a single weed in sight.News and investigation crews sent to the city have never been heard from or traced after they entered.I didn't want the idea of an abandoned environment having those features cause it has been used several times.I already have the story details fleshed out in my head.
This could make a good movie,next gen game or novel.Hmmm...
Last edited by melviso; December 9th, 2012 at 10:45 PM.
Will be doing most of my work in cell shaded and cinematic shot style with camera depth of field,focus.Since I have an animation background,I have to practice in that style.Will be doing concepts based on a title I came up with called BERMUDA where a journalist travels to a city where people living there disappeared a year ago and everyone who travelled there to investigate or look for loved ones were never heard from again.
Unlike most games,movies that have abandoned cities either devoid of greenery,destroyed buildings,vehicles,or everything overtaken by weeds,overgrown trees,dust,rust,animals.The exact opposite happens here.The city on the journalist's arrival is spotless,not a weed in sight,everywhere is clean and proper,and that is impossible if it has been deserted for over a year.So where did everyone go?
Maybe it would get picked up for a game,animated series or movie.
I will try to make out time to post some art soon.It will be cell shaded,and cinematic styled.With this,I get to practice and pitch an idea.
Thanks for all the feedback,guys.
Last edited by melviso; December 15th, 2012 at 07:49 AM.
I think you're going in circles here. While doing what you are doing now you wont learn much. You lack most basic fundamentals.
What I could suggest is you should get back to doing spheres/cubes etc. in different lighting, in different position with proper calculated perspective and shadows. If you feel like it's to simple, add color to this practices.
You get lots of useful points in here but it seems that you've ignored each and every of them and you just follow your logic that will bring you nowhere. While I look at first pictures you've added and last one I cannot see any improvement at all.
When you want to learn something do it right way. When you're making same mistakes over and over again it will not help you to improve. It's just pointless.