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Thread: Tablet PC's discussion

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorj_X_McKie View Post
    I'm excited about the Surface Pro.... If it has Perceptive Pixel, awesome. If Wacom, great. Now about those Atom Clovertrail tablets... I bought the Samsung ATIV 500 and sent it back for refund after about a week. Inking was acceptably smooth on SBP6 and Painter 12, but controls (brush resizing, pinch zoom etc) very laggy and IMO unusable. Other than that, as a general tablet, i liked both it and Windows 8.
    Hmmm - I notice that now the Wacom site no longer lists the Surface Pro. I wonder why that is - is it something they are not ready to announce? Or might it be PP after all?

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    > Or might it be PP after all?

    Yesh! I've seen reference to its need for charging... that isn't the Wacom that we are all familiar with.

    I think someone I know just picked up the Sony Duo 11... If so, I'll report back. I like that one enough to possibly buy myself.

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  3. #33
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    Hmmm - I notice that now the Wacom site no longer lists the Surface Pro. I wonder why that is - is it something they are not ready to announce? Or might it be PP after all?
    Oh my ! You're right, I searched too and found nothing... Maybe someone make a mistake on their website... Surface pro will still be a mystery until the end !


    Jorj_X_McKie > Waiting for your impression about it !

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  4. #34
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    I'm feeling more and more like its going to be PP. Check out this lecture to developers that Jeff Han (founder of PP now Microsoft big whig) gave just last month.

    http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/2-030

    Look at the questions about 11 minutes from the end. He talks at great length about "pen and touch" - the idea that users will use both simultaneously. That is one of the key features of the PP tech. He then mentions in the q&a that Microsoft isn't limiting pen and touch to the large displays that PP had been selling - the surface pro includes it too. I take this to be just short of announcing that the pro uses the PP digitizer and stylus.

    After that there was a question about pressure sensitivity. Jeff said their stylus is definitely pressure sensitive - "thousands" of pressure levels.

    The other exciting thing was a comment about microsoft's commitment to pen and touch displays. They see it as the key pc interface going forward. He said that though he wasn't going to announce anything, rest assured that "devices are coming". This means that Microsoft is going to be releasing cintiq style pen and touch displays - with lots of variety. Basically using their weight to push PPs tech into the mainstream. Getting volume up to drive prices down. This sounds like very very good news to artists.

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  5. #35
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    This has been a pretty helpful thread. I'm old enough that the idea of doing art on computers was almost unthinkable when I was a kid, but young enough that I embraced Photoshop back in 1999 and love it. But now I need a way to get around and take my work anywhere, so these new tablets look pretty darn cool. I just have zero knowledge of what the best ones are, and which ones run the best programs. Love Photoshop, have experience with Painter, and have heard good things about Sketchbook Pro. I'm going to keep my eyes on this thread.

    Hopefully this Surface works out. It would be great to be able to work from anywhere. It would probably get me outdoors a lot more in spring and summer if so.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtByZak View Post

    Hopefully this Surface works out. It would be great to be able to work from anywhere. It would probably get me outdoors a lot more in spring and summer if so.
    um....just an FYI, by outdoor...kind of expect that to be either "At Night" Outdoor or in deep shade. Most laptops and Tablets (PCs) only really range from 200-400 nits of brightness. (Nits is how brightness is gauged) 400 Nits is considered the base standard for "Outdoor Displays"....however....thats not the same as "Sunlight viewable Display."

    The Samsung Series 7 Tablet PC has 400 nits....and although its definitely useable in Shaded conditions....any open area during daytime....even on a cloudy day wouldn't really be good for art. You'll be able to see the screen ..but colors will still look pretty bad and then you also have to worry about glare. I tried painting on it at a park during sunset figuring it would be dark enough.....the ambient glare made it almost impossible to really do. Sketching would be more possible...but the glare will still make it annoying.

    I doubt the Surface Pro's display will really go beyond 400 nits. A brighter display will take a much larger toll on the battery...which is already a concern many have with the surface pro. Right now the only viable modern tablet with a brighter screen appears to be the Asus Vio Tab 810. Which has Wacom...but has a Atom processor. I haven't actually been able to see or use one to confirm it...but I'm hearing that it has a 600 nit screen.

    Beyond that.....only really Panasonic offers a "Sunlight Viewable Display" which as the name suggests would be viewable under direct sunlight....but thats only on their toughbook line. They even have a Wacom Penabled Convertible Tablet PC in that line that hits 1000+ Nits.....its greats except the thing is bulit like an Armored Tablet Tank....which makes it very heavy....and very very expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtByZak View Post

    Hopefully this Surface works out. It would be great to be able to work from anywhere. It would probably get me outdoors a lot more in spring and summer if so.
    um....just an FYI, by outdoor...kind of expect that to be either "At Night" Outdoor or in deep shade. Most laptops and Tablets (PCs) only really range from 200-400 nits of brightness. (Nits is how brightness is gauged) 400 Nits is considered the base standard for "Outdoor Displays"....however....thats not the same as "Sunlight viewable Display."

    The Samsung Series 7 Tablet PC has 400 nits....and although its definitely useable in Shaded conditions....any open area during daytime....even on a cloudy day wouldn't really be good for art. You'll be able to see the screen ..but colors will still look pretty bad and then you also have to worry about glare. I tried painting on it at a park during sunset figuring it would be dark enough.....the ambient glare made it almost impossible to really do. Sketching would be more possible...but the glare will still make it annoying.

    I doubt the Surface Pro's display will really go beyond 400 nits. A brighter display will take a much larger toll on the battery...which is already a concern many have with the surface pro. Right now the only viable modern tablet with a brighter screen appears to be the Asus Vio Tab 810. Which has Wacom...but has a Atom processor. I haven't actually been able to see or use one to confirm it...but I'm hearing that it has a 600 nit screen.

    Beyond that.....only really Panasonic offers a "Sunlight Viewable Display" which as the name suggests would be viewable under direct sunlight....but thats only on their toughbook line. They even have a Wacom Penabled Convertible Tablet PC in that line that hits 1000+ Nits.....its greats except the thing is bulit like an Armored Tablet Tank....which makes it very heavy....and very very expensive.

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  8. #38
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    ok...this double posting glitch is getting old.

    but back to my prior point...Apparently Panasonic has uppped their specs...they now offer "6000" Nits of brightness on their Toughbook 19 Tablet
    mega ouch on the prices though....
    http://www.toughonline.com/

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    Little snippet of Surface Pro info for you guys. Taken from http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-with-m...ro-7000009572/

    "Pen support
    Unlike Surface RT, Surface Pro comes with a pen. Designed to connect to the tablet's magnetic power connector when you're travelling, the pen is comfortable and easy to use, with an offset right-click button that's less likely to be accidentally clicked. The screen's active digitizer is pressure sensitive, and so should work well with art software. The magnetic connection isn't as strong as the Surface Pro's keyboard connector, but it's good enough for most purposes although we'd be inclined to keep the pen in a pocket or a carry case for safety."

    Yet still no word on what tech the pen is oh well, we'll find out one day

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    On tabletpc forums, they have a lot of contradict infos... there for exemple : http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/9/385...th-impressions
    and in the same post just before http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/micr...-wacom-13.html someone from microsoft said it was wacom... so, it still is unclear :/

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  11. #41
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    The most interesting report from one of the reviewers said that the Surface Pro uses Wacom technology, but in a form modified by Microsoft in an unspecified way. Which is most intriguing indeed.

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/m...-pro-hands-on/

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  12. #42
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    Interesting... I really hope we can have more details soon ! Can't wait to know how good (or bad) it is for artists ! Thanks thegriffman for your link !

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    You keep on mentioning the new Windows tablet, but isn't this multi-touch? What about options that are not multi-touch? Lookign for something that does not react to touch, but only to stylus!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mallorydelarosa View Post
    You keep on mentioning the new Windows tablet, but isn't this multi-touch? What about options that are not multi-touch? Lookign for something that does not react to touch, but only to stylus!
    1. The Surface Pro has palm rejection, so it turns off touch when the pen is near the screen.
    2. My understanding is that you can disable touch completely if you want to.

    I'd reconsider completely disabling it though. Unless the palm rejection just isn't reliable, the ability to use touch for panning and zooming is a huge benefit to your workflow.

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    Hey did you see guys ? Surface pro is announced for February the 9th Can't wait the reviews !

    * My current blog
    * Sketchbook page on CA.org coming soon...

    Have a good and creative day !
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    I can't wait either. This thing snuck under my radar at first, but at this point it looks like it will be the single best option for Cintiq on the go functionality at an affordable price. Like you guys, I'm only waiting to learn more about the stylus tech before buying.

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    I really hope the surface will be great.
    But we've all read some reviews on it by now, and while none of them say the pen is bad, none of them have said anything good that really sticks out to get excited about. I was hoping by now, there'd be some reviews comparing it to a cintiq, but everyone just seems... 'satisfied' by it. Which is good! But I was hoping to see a lot more enthusiasm from the reviewers on it.

    I've also been trying to keep an eye on the Dell XPS 12. But while I can find a lot of reviews on it, I havnt found a single one that talks about pen performance in any kind of decent detail. Does anyone know any good links or reviews I may have missed on this particular tablet?

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    Besides the Microsoft Branding and the Touch/Type covers...and the magnetic pen dock...the Surface Pro is really no different then any of the other Penabled Core i5 tablets. Battery life, performance, and the capabilties are all pretty much the same. The only trump the Surface Pro would have over the already available Samsung Ativ Smart Pc Pro is that it has the same res on a 10.6 inch instead of 11.6 inch screen. So it has more pixals per inch...but thats really minor. I just hope the surface Pro has better colors...the Smart PC Pro seems to be pretty bad with colors.

    And you can forget about seeing an "Artist" review of the Surface Pro untill its acctually released. All those pre-release reviews are coming from tech reviewers who are quite oblivious to art needs. And its not like Microsoft is going to advertise it to artists. The simple fact that its from Microsoft and not Apple alone will make this nearly invisable to the creative industry....as has been the case with virtually every Tablet PC.....ever. Once Feb 9 comes....hit up the Tablet PC forums. The forum will be alive that day with artists giving their 2 cents.

    I was going to get one...but I decided to hold untill the 10-watt Core i5's start to hit tablet PCs.

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    Someone just posted a video of him using the dell 12 in art class, that can give you an idea It's somewhere here or in the wacom sub-forum.

    But you know, tablet pc will not be at the cintiq level. At least not this generation.

    It's not the same digitizer, not the same precision and not the same size of screen... I worked on an asus ep121 and loved it, but for serious piece of work it was too tiny (resulting some frustration ^^) and definitly not the same "confort" with the pressure sensitivity. You can adapt yourself to work fine with it, it's a tool and it do the job, I'm sure people working everyday with it can do masterpiece with it... It's a matter of performance and some confort ^^

    I think people are looking about something to work "on-the-go" without carrying a full latop + tablet. I'm already aware of the limitation it will have. I still look for one, because it will have all the classical web-browsing, video, music, mail and so, like a normal android/ipad tablet can do BUT with this one, if I can work for 3D and painting too.
    That's the difference with a cintiq or my beloved msp19u, which it you can do pro work, you have a lot of confort, you are at ease but you need to stay at your desk. You can't use them in train, car, during holidays or trip, you can't have them in your bag.
    That is what tablet pc are made for, not to do super-big-detailed job, but to be able to work anyway anywhere.

    Last edited by Griffonnage; January 29th, 2013 at 05:05 PM.
    * My current blog
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagistric View Post
    Besides the Microsoft Branding and the Touch/Type covers...and the magnetic pen dock...the Surface Pro is really no different then any of the other Penabled Core i5 tablets. Battery life, performance, and the capabilties are all pretty much the same. The only trump the Surface Pro would have over the already available Samsung Ativ Smart Pc Pro is that it has the same res on a 10.6 inch instead of 11.6 inch screen. So it has more pixals per inch...but thats really minor. I just hope the surface Pro has better colors...the Smart PC Pro seems to be pretty bad with colors.
    There are more differentiators than that - at least from the previews I've read. One of the Wacom executives said in an interview that he was very impressed with the low parallax of the Surface Pro. This corroborates what Microsoft said about it having the lowest distance from pen to screen of any of these devices. Also, the reports are that the screen vividness, contrast, and clarity are fantastic. Finally, the build quality is supposed to be excellent, compared to the shabby plastic of many of the other penabled tablets - particularly the Ativ Smart PC Pro.

    I've researched this as well as is possible for a consumer at this time, and due also to my own fairly urgent need for a new computer, I'm satisfied enough to pick this one up on the morning of the 9th. Perhaps I should do an artist review for y'all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegiffman View Post
    There are more differentiators than that - at least from the previews I've read. One of the Wacom executives said in an interview that he was very impressed with the low parallax of the Surface Pro. This corroborates what Microsoft said about it having the lowest distance from pen to screen of any of these devices. Also, the reports are that the screen vividness, contrast, and clarity are fantastic. Finally, the build quality is supposed to be excellent, compared to the shabby plastic of many of the other penabled tablets - particularly the Ativ Smart PC Pro.

    I've researched this as well as is possible for a consumer at this time, and due also to my own fairly urgent need for a new computer, I'm satisfied enough to pick this one up on the morning of the 9th. Perhaps I should do an artist review for y'all?
    PLEASE do a review as soon as you are able. We all know the tech sites aren't going to tell us what we want to know about the Stylus. Engadget will draw their logo on the screen and call it a day.

    I've researched as well and agree with your conclusions. Between the screen (quality and size/resolution), build quality, weight, and parallax, this sounds like a real winner. Only thing it's missing is a dedicated GPU, which would have been nice. But I guess Intel 4000 will suffice for the price.

    I want to know how the pen performs on a wide variety of software, from Microsofts own Fresh Paint, to Sketchbook, Photoshop, and Painter.

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    Apparently, Surface Pro is definately wacom: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbt...p?Number=44176


    "The 10.6" display runs at 1920 x 1080 and it supports 10 points of capacitive multi-touch. More interesting to graphic artists, note takers and science types in the digital pen. There's been much confusion around the pen, which looks nearly identical to the Wacom pen included with my Samsung Series 7 Slate. I brought my Wacom pen with me to test Surface Pro and it worked just as well as Microsoft's bundled pen. This is indeed a Wacom digitizer on the Surface Pro. For those of you who are wondering, Wacom and N-Trig are the two big names in active digitizers and digital pens, with the occasional Atmel showing up on a device. The pens are specific to the digitizer brand, thus a Wacom pen only works with Wacom digitizers. The tablet supports 1,024 levels of pressure sensitivity and it clips on magnetically to the magnetic charging port, to make it slightly less likely that you'll misplace it. Is 10.6" big enough for note-taking with OneNote or Journal? Yes it is. But artists might find the 10.6" virtual surface a bit cramped (zoom, zoom and zoom some more!). If you're accustomed to drawing on a Wacom Bamboo tablet, the size will be just fine."

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    Hmmm the 1 024 pp are a hack I suppose, as Samsung did for the note and ativ ? Anyway, that was quite amusing to hope for something different until the end ^^ I'm still curious about perspective pixel in action !
    Well, now Europe have to wait to get them *sigh*

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    Hello everyone, I randomly found out about this post, and I would like to help.
    My name is Alessandro Vene, I'm a children's book illustrator, and I'm kinda a Wacom tablet maniac,
    I own a couple of Bamboo, an Intuos 3, Intuos 4 and 4 tablet computer; Samsung Slate 7, a Motion Computing F5, a Motion Computing j3400, and a Lenovo x200, all Wacom Penabled.
    I worked quite a lot with a Cintiq 21, and I also played a little bit with the new Samsung Pro, the one that is suppose have 1024 levels, like the Surface Pro (actually it should be the same hardware).
    I honestly think they're great machine to work with, they are not as pressure sensitive as an Intuos or new generation Cintiq, but you can easily travel with them and use it as a digital sketchbook, or use it to sketch outside if they have a View Anywhere screen, which make it better than any other Wacom in my opinion.
    My recommendation if you are looking to try one of those is to get an old tablet off eBay for cheap, before deciding if is worth investing in a new machine, since the best ones start from 1400$ and up, and try by yourself. There is a big community of Tablet Pc users, where you can find all kind of information about tablets, digitizers, drivers, tweaks on the pressure and programs, but I don't know if I can put the link in here.
    there are also many script to help make the drawing experience closer to a Cintiq/Intuos, like Art-dock, or Photoshop toolbar.
    If you need some help deciding what model to choose, feel free to ask, and I will try to help as much as I can,
    here's also some of my works, pretty much all made with Tablet PCs: http://alessandroveneart.com/,
    I hope I didn't make too many errors, cause English is not my first language :-)
    and have a great day guys

    Last edited by azelll; February 4th, 2013 at 09:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bahferretboy View Post
    Apparently, Surface Pro is definately wacom: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbt...p?Number=44176


    "The 10.6" display runs at 1920 x 1080 and it supports 10 points of capacitive multi-touch. More interesting to graphic artists, note takers and science types in the digital pen. There's been much confusion around the pen, which looks nearly identical to the Wacom pen included with my Samsung Series 7 Slate. I brought my Wacom pen with me to test Surface Pro and it worked just as well as Microsoft's bundled pen. This is indeed a Wacom digitizer on the Surface Pro. For those of you who are wondering, Wacom and N-Trig are the two big names in active digitizers and digital pens, with the occasional Atmel showing up on a device. The pens are specific to the digitizer brand, thus a Wacom pen only works with Wacom digitizers. The tablet supports 1,024 levels of pressure sensitivity and it clips on magnetically to the magnetic charging port, to make it slightly less likely that you'll misplace it. Is 10.6" big enough for note-taking with OneNote or Journal? Yes it is. But artists might find the 10.6" virtual surface a bit cramped (zoom, zoom and zoom some more!). If you're accustomed to drawing on a Wacom Bamboo tablet, the size will be just fine."
    I came here to post this as well - good to see I'm not the only one who compulsively searches for Surface Pro Impressions every day.

    I called the Microsoft store on Mich. Ave. and they have a few demo units on display. I am going to try it out after work tonight, I'll let you guys know what I think. Although my impressions might not be as valuable as I have never used an on-screen stylus of any kind before other than my iPad. So I will be comparing it to Intuos 3 - I think I am going to be impressed!

    My real concern at this point, other than power and battery, is screen size. Thinking about it, 10.6 inches isn't a lot of room to draw... but that's bigger than the iPad so we'll see...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJR View Post
    I came here to post this as well - good to see I'm not the only one who compulsively searches for Surface Pro Impressions every day.

    I called the Microsoft store on Mich. Ave. and they have a few demo units on display. I am going to try it out after work tonight, I'll let you guys know what I think. Although my impressions might not be as valuable as I have never used an on-screen stylus of any kind before other than my iPad. So I will be comparing it to Intuos 3 - I think I am going to be impressed!

    My real concern at this point, other than power and battery, is screen size. Thinking about it, 10.6 inches isn't a lot of room to draw... but that's bigger than the iPad so we'll see...
    This thing is outstanding. Played with it at the MS store for about 30 minutes. The sales guy was with me the whole time, so I couldn't focus on the stylus as much as I wanted, but what I saw was awfully impressive.

    First, the negatives. This device is heavier than I expected, and feels bulky compared to an iPad. That said, it is still perfectly manageable. Just if you use an iPad, be prepared for some additional heft. Second is the aspect ratio. 1080p is a bit too wide, and the device is just odd to use in portrait. Battery is last, and I think we all expected this. Typical laptop battery life at best.

    But the stylus. Full wacom stylus with 1024 levels of pressure. I've never used an on screen stylus like this before, as I said, so this was extra special for me. My brief time in One Note and Fresh Paint convinced me. The accuracy, speed, and just general flawlessness of the stylus was something to behold. I have little doubt artists are going to snatch this thing up because I don't think there has ever been as versatile a product with such good stylus support before. Beyond just the ease of input was the feel. I expected the screen to be glossy and the pen to slide around, but it felt just perfect - if anything it will be a pain because my fingers didn't slide across the glass as easily as my iPad. Palm rejection worked without a hitch. And the duel touch/stylus input will definitely speed up your workflow. Pinch to zoom and move around just like your iPad, then a second later drop your stylus on the screen and keep going. No problem at all.

    The device was very fast and responsive in all tasks. Surprisingly so. And the screen is beautiful. High pixel density and wonderful vibrant colors. This is a very good product. I didn't preorder because I have a thing where I always 'take a day'. But my enthusiasm has remained such that I will be going to pre-order it tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJR View Post
    Thinking about it, 10.6 inches isn't a lot of room to draw...
    This is my main concern too. That's why I've been trying to keep an eye on other tablets with bigger displays like dell xps 12. And fujitsu 902.
    But, glad to hear you think it's so great! Really positive feedback, that's fantastic! Thanks! Definately happy to hear you have no issues with the pen!!!!
    And personally I'm glad you compared it to an intuos, rather than an ipad

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    I forgot to ask- was there no noticeable lag or anything, from using bigger brushes or large canvas'?

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    For the big lag or so, you will have to wait for reviewer that have the beast at home with photoshop and co... ^^ They have been some nice reviews on youtube about the ativ (pro and not pro), that was helpfull to get an idea about the processing capacities of every tablet. At shop like that they will not let you install a trial from adobe, I think Just wait a few days more and I think we will have a clue about that part...

    Nice comments, but I'm really curious if any of you have tried the samsung note to make a comparison between the screen/stylus of this one and the surface ? I always found the note 10.1 to have really good feeling, better thant the asus ep121 actually.

    * My current blog
    * Sketchbook page on CA.org coming soon...

    Have a good and creative day !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffonnage View Post
    For the big lag or so, you will have to wait for reviewer that have the beast at home with photoshop and co... ^^ They have been some nice reviews on youtube about the ativ (pro and not pro), that was helpfull to get an idea about the processing capacities of every tablet. At shop like that they will not let you install a trial from adobe, I think Just wait a few days more and I think we will have a clue about that part...

    Nice comments, but I'm really curious if any of you have tried the samsung note to make a comparison between the screen/stylus of this one and the surface ? I always found the note 10.1 to have really good feeling, better thant the asus ep121 actually.
    Using the S7S as the standard, these Ivy Bridge Core i5 Slates should preform slightly better. My S7S runs Photoshop CS5 Perfectly. For the standard Hard/soft round brushes....you can make them up the the 200+ pixel size easy with no lag. The only performance issue I encountered on my S7S over my Desktop is using complex Texture Brushes and the Smudge Tool past 100 pixels size. With Smudge, there is very very slight lag once you hit 70...but its not really noticable untill you hit 100. Its worth noting though that when I threw Windows 8 on my S7S......Windows 8 just killed the performance in Photoshop. Every brush just had a lag to it.....it performed just as bad if not worse then photoshop on the Ep121...that tablet's a whole another story in itself....It had a ULV 1st gen Core i5 but it perfromed worse then ulv Core2Duos. That Prototype Tablet rushed to market just had alot of issues.

    But if there are any performance related issues with these Ivy Bridge Slates....they have to be due to driver issues with Windows 8, because Spec wise they should be more then capable. The Clovertrail ones though....forget it.

    And the Note's screen is indeed better then the Ep121.....Any Tablet releases since the ep121 will have a better screen feeling. The ep121 was one of the first tablets to use Gorilla Glass.....and used it poorly they did.

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