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Thread: Best way to learn that doesn't involve doing masses of reading?

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    Quote Originally Posted by creeptool View Post
    yes you can learn perspective and anatomy and manny other things from books... but to put it all together to make let's say a comic page that's somthing we as artist have to know that knowledge... yes books give tips on how to but books dont show you all the info we need.
    Well artists don't necessarily "know" instinctively. They still have to acquire this knowledge somehow. This either by doing, observing, and reading about it. I actually put it in hierarchy of importance.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Well artists don't necessarily "know" instinctively. They still have to acquire this knowledge somehow. This either by doing, observing, and reading about it. I actually put it in hierarchy of importance.
    yes i agree with what you're saying...its just some people just get it and it clicks mentally much faster and with much less info then others.

     

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    I have difficulty with books too. I don't retain information via that medium very well. What kind of learning style do you have? People generally have a leaning toward one particular style of learning out of reading, listening, watching, doing. It might be worth figuring out which your strength is.

    For me it goes Doing > Watching > Reading > Listening. So if I'm just listening to someone talking about art principles, or indeed any other subject, I'll probably fall asleep and not absorb any information. When I am verbally told information or read it in a book, I have difficulty retaining or actually applying it. So I try to concentrate on watching and doing as much as possible because that works much better, and I find DVDs and classes far better things to learn from than books. Perhaps you are the same way?

    Another issue you may run into is that some amazing artists who have a lot of great things to share aren't necessarily people who are filled with charisma or are interesting to watch and listen to. If I am watching a DVD by someone with this problem, I do it in bite-sized chunks, then draw for a little while and try to apply what they are talking about, then go back to it. This works much better than, say, trying to watch a Vilppu DVD for three hours straight! That's not really how they should be used, anyway. Just as the Loomis book is a workbook rather than a textbook, DVDs like Vilppu's should be worked through, not watched, as such.

    Try to keep focused on what you want to achieve but at the same time enjoy the process of learning and exploration which gets you there. If you're not able to do that, as others have said, you probably won't be happy becoming an artist, because you'll just end up in a cycle of frustration - you see, you never actually do "get there" - even when you can do some of the things you used to want to be able to do, there is always someone else doing even cooler stuff. That it is a never-ending journey is both the blessing and the curse of being an artist.

     

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    noone is forcing you to read a book or watch a certain video or whatever... if you dont like it, dont consume it, but find your way, to aquire the knowlegde presented there anywhere else. doing art (to me, especially production art) is a whole lot about your problem solving skills. if you cant solve the problem of how to keep interest in something youd like to do, how is anyone supposed to help you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    I'm basically just starting out, and being 21 that seems kinda late.

    I'm trying to learn programming too, which also requires time/dedication, so how much time would I have to spend minimum daily to get anywhere with this.
    Stop trying, and make up your mind. Both programming and drawing have in common that it takes at least one year to learn the basics, a couple more years to get anywhere useful and a lot more years to become good. I have yet to meet the first one who is good at both drawing and programming, so unless you have the patience to spend at least 10 years trying to learn both, please, make up your mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    I have a handful of books, including all 6 Loomis, but I just can't keep interest when reading.
    I tried the Vilppu videos that 4chans /ic/ suggested. And....same problem.

    There has to be SOMETHING that can keep my interest.

    My goal is to draw character concept art, doing pencil rendered versions of stuff like this:
    I assume I'd have to be a master of shading/blending in order to achieve a smooth look. I don't want my art to have the "outline" look.
    I need to find a way to understand anatomy where I don't get bored to death.

    Attachment 1610867

    Is there anything besides hours upon hours of drawing, that will help my lines go exactly where I want them to go, and have my proportions correct?

    I have always drawn holding my pencil like you would when writing your name, and I assume thats a bad idea.

    I don't have any art to show off, sadly.

    Let me guess. You're THAT GUY with the 14 How To Get Started Threads replaying your odd psychological hang-up yet again, under another identity?

    Last edited by Kamber Parrk; October 19th, 2012 at 07:31 PM. Reason: your you're
     

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    At night, open your nearest window and wish upon a star. If you live in the city like I do, tough luck; however, you might still be able to see Vega or Polaris if you happen to live in the northern hemisphere.

    Last edited by Vay; October 19th, 2012 at 08:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vay View Post
    At night, open your nearest window and wish upon a star. If you live in the city like I do, tough luck; however, you might still be able to see Vega or Polaris if you happen to live in the northern hemisphere.


     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Let me guess. You're THAT GUY with the 14 How To Get Started Threads replaying your odd psychological hang-up yet again, under another identity?
    No, this is my first time on this forum.

     

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    Is there anything besides hours upon hours of drawing, that will help my lines go exactly where I want them to go, and have my proportions correct?
    Basically, you have no clue about drawing. Thats ok. Now go find some answers by yourself, please.

     

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    I see posting this thread was a huge mistake.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    No, this is my first time on this forum.
    Well, OK, you have no art to show, you indicate you have little or no ability, and you're finding some really fine intermediate level books hard to use.

    Why don't you check Betty Edward's Drawing On the Right Side of Brain out of your local library, ignore the "brain science" (because it's twaddle) and see if you can discipline yourself to work through all the exercises in the Sketch Book you should start right now?

    If you can't get that far, maybe take up golf as a hobby and concentrate on your programming career.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    No, this is my first time on this forum.
    True, I checked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    I see posting this thread was a huge mistake.
    Probably also true.

     

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    Let me get this straight... In addition to art, you're trying to learn programming, but you get bored with "masses of reading"...? You realize you'll have to read a TON of incredibly dull material to learn programming, right? Oh, and even if you get good at programming, you'll have to keep reading up on it for the rest of your life, because guess what, technology changes every week and you will never stop studying until you die...

    Then there's math. You may need to study that, too, depending on what kind of programmer you want to be. Trig. Calculus. Fun stuff that involves reading and studying. Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    Is there anything besides hours upon hours of drawing, that will help my lines go exactly where I want them to go, and have my proportions correct?
    Nope. Maybe you should hire someone to draw for you.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Let me get this straight... In addition to art, you're trying to learn programming, but you get bored with "masses of reading"...? You realize you'll have to read a TON of incredibly dull material to learn programming, right? Oh, and even if you get good at programming, you'll have to keep reading up on it for the rest of your life, because guess what, technology changes every week and you will never stop studying until you die...

    Then there's math. You may need to study that, too, depending on what kind of programmer you want to be. Trig. Calculus. Fun stuff that involves reading and studying. Yep.

    Nope. Maybe you should hire someone to draw for you.
    I am so sick of people not reading what I posted after that.

    I did NOT mean I want to skip hours of practice. For fucks sake.

    I said was there anything that can be done BESIDES that to supplement it.

    How many god damn times must I reiterate this.

     

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    Take it easy.

     

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    Geno,

    The most obvious thing you can do to supplement reading and hours putting pencil to paper is to take a class.

    Community colleges, art stores, some private venues with artists who teach, etc. are all places to find instruction.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vay View Post
    At night, open your nearest window and wish upon a star. If you live in the city like I do, tough luck; however, you might still be able to see Vega or Polaris if you happen to live in the northern hemisphere.
    Down here in the better hemisphere of the world, we have access to Alpha Centauri. It works really well for wishing (plus, it turns out it actually has a planet orbiting it too.) :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    I am so sick of people not reading what I posted after that.

    I did NOT mean I want to skip hours of practice. For fucks sake.

    I said was there anything that can be done BESIDES that to supplement it.

    How many god damn times must I reiterate this.
    Being only a very amateurish amateur, I cannot give you any advice on art. I seldom ask for any advice here either, because I have come to realize that advice seldom helps me - in any one thread, there are usually ten different pieces of mutually exclusive advice.

    So what am I doing here then, besides wasting way too much time that could have been spent drawing on chatting? I find that simply surfing around the threads and soaking them up actually helps quite a bit, albeit in ways that I find difficult to explain.

    I would also suggest that you start a sketchbook thread and put its location in your signature. For one thing, it serves as an incentive to keep on drawing. For another, sooner or later you'll have people looking at it and many will make useful and/or kind remarks, which also helps one to keep going even when one feels like a total loser. I now have several quite accomplished artists every now and then taking time to comment on my attempts. They are all vastly more accomplished than I am, making me feel a bit like an impostor, but it is partly that feeling that helps to encourage me to keep at it, if for no other reason than to become worthy of the kindness they bestow on me.

    I know what you mean with getting bored reading. When it comes to the technical aspects of art technique, I also sometimes get bored with it, which is weird considering that in general I am complete and utter book worm. I do often read biographies of artists, and one does learn the one and other in the process. And some technical books are more readable than others. I find that sometimes books fail to help me because they don't contain a real program: they don't tell you in detail what you should DO after having read chapter one. Perhaps you have that same problem?

    I think it can be overcome by drawing more: I have noticed that it is only after attempting to draw some specific thing that I know which questions to ask about it, and then some books suddenly become very useful indeed.

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    I think first of all you are going to have to read to get your basic understanding of what things are called in order to avoid mass reading later on. If you know that much then you can go into practice and take note of specific things that are bothering you about your work. If you notice your values are off or your colors are not hitting they way you like then you can search one of the books you have for your specific problem and work with that. If its the books that bother you then get videos, artist friends or teachers that can help ease the process of learning your particular challenges at the time. Watching how mother nature handles all the issues of description is the easiest way to get your answers but most people are brought up with an eye that cannot see beyond a tree is green or a cloud is white. Its important to see exactly what is wrong and be able to describe it in a way that will get you the right answers to push your forward whether it be a book, video, teacher or any resource.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Let me get this straight... In addition to art, you're trying to learn programming, but you get bored with "masses of reading"...? You realize you'll have to read a TON of incredibly dull material to learn programming, right? Oh, and even if you get good at programming, you'll have to keep reading up on it for the rest of your life, because guess what, technology changes (WHOOPS, IT JUST CHANGED!) and you will never stop studying until you die...

    Then there's math. You may need to study that, too, depending on what kind of programmer you want to be. Trig. Calculus. Fun stuff that involves reading and studying. Yep.



    Nope. Maybe you should hire someone to draw for you.
    Fixed.


    Now. To the OP.

    How strong is your ability to comprehend what it is you are reading, and I mean reading anything?

    The necessity to comprehend the material before you accelerates your ability to mentally translate that information as you practice drawing.

    Being able to observe and reason out the why's of what you are drawing, (the twist of the waist, the shadow under the chin) will help you in your learning.

    Having to read, like any form of learning, is needed to learn the basic foundation of drawing. How fast you comprehend and move forward depends on you and your drive to understand.

    Finding a way to make the necessary information fit into your learning regiment is found by example or teacher, or by knowing what it is you want to accomplish and working towards it.

    Any material can be made digestable just by absorbing it in pieces.

    Read a paragraph, take the info of that paragraph and try it numerous times until it clicks, and move on at a pace that helps you learn it to unconsciously forget it, incorporating it into your base knowledge.

    That's my 2 En.

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; October 20th, 2012 at 12:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Let me get this straight... In addition to art, you're trying to learn programming, but you get bored with "masses of reading"...? You realize you'll have to read a TON of incredibly dull material to learn programming, right?
    Hmmm. I don't think I have the attention span needed to read a programming book from beginning to end.
    This probably explains my unnatural love for indices and Perl.

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    I recommend doing practice exercises given by the community mentoring section/tutorial section of the website as a supplement for drawing. The #1 exercise for Yoitisi Island will show you how to learn to draw better lines. Also, you should tilt your paper so you can benefit from your natural drawing line if you want to have perfect control of your lines.

    http://conceptart.org/forums/forumdi...Yoitisi-Island
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...101&highlight=
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...101&highlight=
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...d-nov-24-09%29

    You don't have to start right away reading books. I started reading books 1-2 months after I started seriously pursuing drawing because I realized how important they were and I actually rather enjoy learning from my books now. I get a sort of thrill when I discover a new technique of drawing a feature of the human body from books. Maybe you will get to that stage too.

    In order to become a good artist, you have to get rid of bad behaviors. The people that learn the fastest are the people that are more open-minded than others, and are willing to try new and challenging things. The people that challenge themselves are the ones that improve the fastest. It's my opinion that everyone starts out as a bad artist with bad opinions, ideas, technique, and viewpoints on different subject areas(as well as little knowledge). If you are willing to get rid of these bad behaviors/ideas you will be able to learn. Some of the accomplished artists here can shed some guidance on your way. Some of them can be pretty crabby because they have dealt with beginners over and over again. But don't let them discourage you. I'm not any good myself, but drawing has made my life more fulfilling, and I feel like a different person because of it. It's almost as if it's the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, so everything else in my life is relatively easy and fun to do now.

    So embrace drawing. You should do about ~2 hours minimum a day; 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour at night of drawing for now. Not too much, in my opinion, because you're still starting out(I'm also assuming that you've just started out drawing recently). The reason why I'm recommending such a short amount of time is because you need to develop an opinion on drawing. How much do you like drawing...Is the process enjoyable at all for you? Think more about this for now rather than improvement. If you start liking drawing, draw a little more everyday. You might have to sacrifice something in order to become a better artist, too. I sacrificed videogames; I just lose too much time to school to share my free time between art and videogames.

    And then you need to ask yourself if you like drawing so much, and want to become a better artist so much, that you're willing to read books that you consider boring that will provide you with the knowledge and tools that will make drawing easier and more fun. Because...what's not fun about being able to solve problems in your drawings quickly? And if your answer is still no(after you enjoy drawing so much and want to be a better artist so much that you are willing to give up sleep), then unfortunately the truth is you will be at an incredible disadvantage compared to other artists who do the studying, and you will remain mediocre and clueless when others will be skilled and professional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineris View Post
    Hmmm. I don't think I have the attention span needed to read a programming book from beginning to end.
    This probably explains my unnatural love for indices and Perl.
    Pff, Perl is all modules anyway.

    If you're faced with the need to learn, say, Java or C++ in order to advance your career, I theeeeeenk there's gonna be some studying involved. (Especially if we're talking about someone with minimal programming experience.) And if you're trying to do anything with friggin' Apple and their convoluted approach to app development, sooner or later you're gonna have to crack open a manual. And then throw the manual at the wall. And then pick it up and try again.

    (I don't usually read the WHOLE book cover to cover, but if I'm making a major step from one language to another I do read a fair chunk of it. And then spend a ridiculous amount of time looking up details of the API later...)

     

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    To be honest, it's not that I HATE reading, or that I can't learn when reading, it depends on the author/how it's being presented.

    You've got books explaining it to you like you're an idiot (which is good for someone like me because I have a bad habit of not getting something, stopping, coming back a week later and it clicks).

    Then, you've got those books who think you're a damn math professor.

     

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    Funny thing is I read the first post and knew there would be quite the stir with a sentence using "besides". Since the word itself can be used in ways that mean 'except' or 'also'.


    But anyways. I'm sure someone in here has said Andrew Loomis books are good. I also like Villpu's drawing manual for reading. Besides that you've probably gotten all sorts of sarcasm and such here based on the nature of this sort of thread. Best to stop worrying about this thread and just draw.

    Frankly everyone and their mother will tell you how to learn and what to do, best to find what works for you through trial and error. But either way just keep cranking stuff out, draw from observation, draw from your head. When your just starting out you just need to put miles on paper.







    Oh yeah and to the reading programming thing vs reading drawing thing. At least in my opinion it's not the same. Programming from what little I know is fairly logic based. If the math doesn't work it doesn't work kind of thing. That's not how art is. There's logical elements in that "we see this in the real world because of yada yada yada" but it's not a series of steps someone takes to produce the same results. Not the same kind of reading.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geno3883 View Post
    I see posting this thread was a huge mistake.
    In the end that's pretty irrelevant.

    What you should be doing is posting art. Work on it. You start by starting. So instead of worrying about it, just draw.

     

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    The solution to your problem is taking classes.

     

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    @QueenG.

    I'm studying for the Comptia a+ certificate. I studied some c++ and found it con-freaking-voluted, but would make sense if I practiced it. Aiming for a lot of program certificates to pad my résumé.

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
     

  40. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmenSpirits View Post
    @QueenG.

    I'm studying for the Comptia a+ certificate. I studied some c++ and found it con-freaking-voluted, but would make sense if I practiced it. Aiming for a lot of program certificates to pad my résumé.
    I myself started out with C++ (back when I had ZERO idea wtf I was doing).

    I'm working with C#/XNA now. Slowly improving.

     

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