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  1. #1
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    Andrew's Paintover Thread

    Hey everyone! I've learned a lot from these forums and felt that I want to give back more. So I will be using this thread as a means to provide paintovers for people.



    To see what level I am currently at, here are my two most recent illustrations:


    Andrew's Paintover Thread
    Andrew's Paintover Thread






    If you have an image that you feel I can help with please do the following:

    1) Check to see how many other paintings are waiting to be painted over. If there are four or more paintings that have not been painted over yet, DO NOT POST A NEW IMAGE FOR ME.

    2) Please only post one image at a time, and try not to post very quick sketches that you can take farther without my help.

    3) Please state what your intention of the painting is. What are you trying to get across/why did you paint this?

    4) Wait. It might be a few days before I can get to your image--I work full time at a job far from where I live, have a girlfriend, and have to practice my own art.







    Let's hope this thing works out
    Last edited by Andrew Sonea; August 17th, 2012 at 02:22 AM.
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  4. #2
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    Oh god. I will make you regret this!

    So this piece is really important as it is the first page of a project me and a friend are working on. I have never done a stylized cartoony piece before so the design sensibilities of the Wolf are really worrying me.

    Background info: The wolf is the main character. He is a proud, young wolf, who is strong, and at times too arrogant. He is not evil at his core, he just lacks the direction he needs to learn respect for other animals in his forest. I am worried his expression is still too sinister.

    Thank you so much! I LIVE Paintovers.

    Andrew's Paintover Thread

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    Hi Pavel--first off it's a very nice start. I tend to work in a realistic style, so I don't know how useful all this will be for a cartoony look...maybe you can take something from it though.

    I honestly was fairly hesitant working on the wolf's expression since it is a very different style from how I usually work. Anyhow, I changed the shape of the snout to be more squarish so it looks more wolf-like. The eye was looking a bit weird to me both because it is too human and because I don't think an eye can turn that far to the side (the head would turn more if he wanted to look at the viewer). I also put more white above the eye so that it can act as an "eyebrow" and therefore will allow a lot more human expressions in general (beyond this picture).

    The elbows are actually much higher on wolves than you have painted them, so I corrected that and made him leaning forward a bit more to emphasize the arrogance. I also put a lighter value behind the legs so that they were more obvious as before their shapes were getting lost in the background.





    Okay, the landscape. The perspective in this image is playing some weird tricks. The wolf appears to be the same size as the trees and this is a bit confusing. I lowered the horizon line and made it so that the wolf is standing on a cliff type thing up high, so it is like he is looking down over his territory which he owns (or thinks he does at least).

    The mound of snow he is standing on looks...well it looks mushy. By painting it more angular and having some rock showing through it looks solid, shows the viewer what he is standing on, and allows the shapes of rock and snow to lead the eye into the picture. The trees were also mushy looking, so I made them a bit more realistic and made the lighting consistent with the wolf (rim lighting from moon).

    The canvas was extended as I felt the square format was constricting. This way he feels more like a part of the landscape and can look out over it. You can probably make the trees on the left more varied and interesting--I just clone-stamped them to paint it faster and show you what could be there.

    The last thing is that everything in your original painting is very crisp. While this can work for cartoony looks, it also flattens the image a lot. To get depth I suggest for things in the background you soften them up a bit. My example is a bit crude as I took the smudge tool to it in a couple strokes, but with time you can refine it more.




    Anyways, I hope that helped at least a bit. Thanks for being the first one to post up a picture!
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  7. #4
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    Hey, pretty cool stuff here man! I wish more people would do paintovers, anyway, cheers!

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    Hey, great idea Andrew, hope to see some more interesting overpaints really soon ^-^ and also it's great that you posted it side by side with the original.

    Though I have to say, neither the overpaint, nor the original drawing portrays a proud young wolf who is a bit arrogant, but not evil. Povel's wolf looks kind, but also a bit scared (having his ears back and looking at us from the corner of his eye), your.. well, I'm trying not to be mean, but it looks a bit crazy to me with that wide open eye

    If I were to portray a proud canine I would have him looking forward, ears up and forward, proud posture (maybe leaning a bit forward?) and the tail up (tail down makes it look quite sad and submissive). Then to make it look non-threatening or kind you could make it pant (having its tongue hanging out) and give it human-like eyes with large pupils

    Anyway, just my thoughts, sorry Andrew for hijacking your post to critique Povel, it was a spur of the moment.
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    Charadas, those are some good points! People shouldn't be afraid to pop in with their own opinions and critiques here since this thread is about learning. As I mentioned in my post, I am not really suited for cartoony type things or getting expressions like that. I really only practice painting realistically...so I guess the environment is where I felt most comfortable in that painting. I'd have to disagree a bit with you on the eye--I don't think a human eye is necessary, and I think it looks a bit offputting to be honest. Wolves actually have yellow eyes, and even with that can look nice:
    http://blackwolfblog.files.wordpress...lebook_021.jpg
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    Well, since this thread is relatively new and you're likely to be overrun soon, I'll take advantage and post now!

    So I actually have a pretty good idea where I want to take this piece, but a fresh perspective is always useful. Here's a bit of a twist though. I have two versions of this piece, one with tree branches in the foreground, and one without. I feel that the tree branch give an added sense of perspective, but without the tree branch the composition feels a lot cleaner, less cluttered. Pick whichever version you like and just paintover the one.

    Trees
    Andrew's Paintover Thread
    No Trees
    Andrew's Paintover Thread

    Thanks a bunch in advance!

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    Hey man this is a really cool deed on your part, you have some cool work. I know this is the complete opposite point in this thread but it's bugging me about the dragon image. it's really nicely rendered but when i squint at the image the part i notice is grabbing my attention is the light on the creatures pectoral region, when surely the creatures head and the flame should be grabbing my attention. I think the problem is the sky is almost the same value as the flame, also they are both warm colours. I think it would be a much stronger image if you had some of that darker green in the sky haloing the creatures head, perhaps create a break in the clouds or something in that area. keep up the good work, peace!
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    Hi, great idea, but I think you changed art direction in the both images.
    As the first was child illustration, and you switch it to concept art.
    The second was more hokusai on the original image, even if its breeding more now it is less ambientaly rich.
    there is no more idea that the actor look on the house from the vital forest but from hostile naked mountain. And that changes the story.

    On the other side I have no idea of how the paintovers should be done. Just like to crit others :p

    edit: Anyway Im putting my image too. Thanks in advance

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    Alright, I tried to tackle this one by Ryan.

    There were some major changes I made to this one, mainly in regards to perspective and to values. Perspective-wise the building wasn't correct--if you were to follow the lines to a vanishing point that point is far above the horizon. This makes the building appear to be on a plane that is tilted towards us and not parallel with the ground plane. The lines also are very parallel and painted in a manner that looks very isometric. I lowered the horizon line a bit which allowed me to push the shape of the main mountain into something with more character and have it silhouetted against the sky.

    The mountain itself is interesting, but doesn't match up with the mountains in the background, and is not the type of mountain that is typically seen covered in snow and in big chains like that (at least to my knowledge). I changed the mountain to a more typical Himalayan type look since that also appears to be where the inspiration for the piece came from. I significantly lightened the values both in the shadows and in the lights to push it back in space more and make it more interesting/snowlike. I pushed the colour temperature so that the snow is warmer and will separate from the shadows, and changed the hue slightly in various places so that the blue has some more green areas and some more purple areas (the hue variation adds interest and realism). With the lighting I made sure to make it clear what direction it was coming from, and made sure to include some nice cast shadows as well.

    I also felt that the story side of the painting was a bit lacking. There was a single guy looking at a building--and that's it. I included more figures and some flags which allowed me to repeat the shapes showing distance/scale as well as show some story of a bunch of people trekking towards this giant building. Since we know the size of a person and the size of the flags (as they are next to a person), when we repeat those shapes smaller the brain automatically understands they are farther away. One of the travelers is also much closer to the viewer which adds an "extreme" foreground element making the painting more interesting and hinting that there is more going on behind us as well--it is a full world here.
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    Just finished this one as well.

    Basically you need to define the light source more clearly. Beforehand all the values were very dark and there was no clear direction of light. I made a warm strong light from above and put a cool rimlight as well to counterbalance it (as well as make the lighting more interesting since there is so much black in the painting).

    Once the lighting was fixed, I made some modifications on the poses and size of the characters. The skeleton dude I made taller as before he was a midget, and I brought the hunched over guy forward a bit in space so that the three characters weren't all bunched together so tightly. I also added a regular sword to the skeleton guy since the previous weapon thing was not reading clearly.

    Oh, and I removed the word "PIRATES" from behind them because it should be pretty obvious...
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  20. #12
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    This is a really good Idea. I wish I had something to throw in ha ha. I could yous another artist perspective on what I am and am not doing.

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  22. #13
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    Wow Andrew, that was kick ass!

    Thank you so much. So here is my feedback on your overpaint.

    Moving up the ankle, and leaning him forward is brilliant. I will surely implement that. I do agree that my human eye is weird and I should change it to yellow, but your wolf's expression is... kind of insane in a threatening way haha.

    The new composition rules! I just don't know what to do with that because I wanted to choose an aspect ratio that is the same for every page of the book. But I do entirely agree that yours is more dynamic. Maybe this particular page can have a different aspect ratio then the others.

    Changing the composition is a pretty large undertaking, but I will do my best. I think a lot of the success of yours has to do with you moving down the horizon line, which I should really go for.

    Am I allowed to bug you for more Overpaints? They are like cocaine for me..

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  24. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    Wow Andrew, that was kick ass!

    Thank you so much. So here is my feedback on your overpaint.

    Moving up the ankle, and leaning him forward is brilliant. I will surely implement that. I do agree that my human eye is weird and I should change it to yellow, but your wolf's expression is... kind of insane in a threatening way haha.

    The new composition rules! I just don't know what to do with that because I wanted to choose an aspect ratio that is the same for every page of the book. But I do entirely agree that yours is more dynamic. Maybe this particular page can have a different aspect ratio then the others.

    Changing the composition is a pretty large undertaking, but I will do my best. I think a lot of the success of yours has to do with you moving down the horizon line, which I should really go for.

    Am I allowed to bug you for more Overpaints? They are like cocaine for me..
    I'm glad you appreciated the paintover Feel free to post another image if you'd like and I'll try my best again (although the cartoony stuff is a little beyond my usual comfort zones!).
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    I figured that I'd cross-post this paintover I did a couple days ago in another thread since it got a very good response, and I don't want it to get lost in the sands of time when that thread dies.

    The basic issue was that the person was having trouble rendering form, and transitioning from a line drawing to a painting. They posted a study that they were starting of a bodybuilder and I used that for the paintover. Below is my response:




    "I looked through some of your other art, and I think you should avoid colour for now. Stick to greyscale and when you can show forms without colour you can begin to add colour.

    Now I think another problem is you are using shape too much. This is an easy pitfall to get into when using photos as reference because they are all 2d shapes and you do not see it the same way you see things from life. Try to think using more perspective, and break things into basic forms (cylinder, cube, sphere). A lot of your faces even seem a bit wonky because they aren't in perspective--you are just copying the shapes.

    I've done a little paintover example here. First I show some cross contour lines which are helpful in seeing forms when dealing with just line. It also helps set the stage as a map of sorts when rendering later on because it tells you the angle of each plane (and then you will know how light or dark it is). Next I simplified the figure into a few very basic forms. This may seem too "basic" but in reality is very important. You don't need to draw it out like this every time, but it is a good idea to think like that at all times.

    You can see that the basic forms are very easy to light, all you do is separate lights and shadows and add in a core shadow. I picked a simple top down lighting situation, and lit it from my head. Using that as a guide it is simple to block in the actual painting with the appropriate values. Even though I didn't use any reference I was able to light this line drawing simply by thinking in three dimensions and simplifying forms.

    It should be even easier for you to paint since you have the reference in front of you. Analyze where the light is coming from. Then look at any form on the figure and identify what angle that plane is to the light source. If it is close to 90 degrees it will be very light. And it will probably be darkest when it is parallel to the light rays (core shadow) then get slightly lighter as it turns away from the light source completely (bounce light fills it in a bit).

    Another tip when painting a line drawing is to keep the lines on top of the painting for a while. Once you get to a stage where everything is blocked in fairly clearly, don't just delete the lines. Instead create a new layer above the lines and continue painting. As you do you will gradually paint over the liens until they are not visible all the while maintaining the structure of your drawing."


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