I will be there opening day.
I will be there opening day.
just as the conservatives have their rush limbaugh's and bill o'reilly's, liberal american has people like michael moore and al franken. its an interesting approach to discredit moore's views on the president and 911 by taking a look at him. its all politics as usual and another demonstration of the growing divide in this country. the large metropolitan centers, new york, los angeles, are more liberal than the conservative innards of the country. personally i think this film seems reactionary and trying to provoke an arguement with people that believe in some of what moore has said. i hope no one dignifies that.
Its seems to me that a lot of people jump to conclusions about Micheal Moore. His films aren't subjects of hate, but rather meant to take a look at today's society and analyze it. The title, I feel, is a bit assuming to. Its hard to judge, though. Theres little info on the film.
-edit- I looked through one of the trailers, and it does kind of look like its trying to provoke an arguement. With a name like "Micheal Moore Hates America" I don't really blame Moore for his reactions, what little reactions they were.
Last edited by Alex Outbreak; June 8th, 2004 at 09:26 AM.
WHat bothers me about Moore is that he presents himself as a serious Documentarian when he is not. Check the facts about alot of his films and you'll find he is not interested in the truth. He is interested in Michael Moore.
And yet he reacts the same way when people take umbrage to titles likeWith a name like "Micheal Moore Hates America" I don't really blame Moore for his reactions, what little reactions they were.
Stupid White Men ...and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!
His film 9/11 triumphs his "outing" of Rep. Mark Kennedy:
And that's not what happens in the film and it is a memorable moment in the trailer! Like the Penn and Teller dude said... The art of lying without telling a lie."I was walking back to my office after casting a vote, and all of a sudden some oversized guy puts a mike in my face and a camera in my face," Kennedy said. "He starts asking if I can help him recruit more people from families of members of Congress to participate in the war on terror. Kennedy said he told Moore that he has two nephews in the military, one who has just been deployed in the Army National Guard. But to Kennedy's annoyance, his response to Moore was cut from the trailer, which was released Thursday. His response was also cut from the film, according to a spokeswoman for the movie.
"The interesting thing is that they used my image, but not my words," Kennedy said. "It's representative of the fact that Michael Moore doesn't always give the whole story, and he's a master of the misleading."
A spokeswoman for the fiercely anti-Bush film, which has found a U.S. distributor after the Walt Disney Co. refused to release it, said she had no comment.
A transcript released by the film's producers shows Moore telling Kennedy that "there is only one member (of Congress) who has a kid over there in Iraq." He asks Kennedy to help him pass out literature encouraging others "to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq."
Kennedy replies, "I'd be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war. (As Kennedy did.) I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan."
To which Moore replies: "I appreciate it."
My issue with Moore is he is in a power position and he is using that power to divide and mollify... all while making sure he looks "GOOD" at Cannes.
Regarding the Moore film, which I haven't seen yet, one of my favorite quotes comes to mind: "Information is controlled by those who provide it" - anonymous.
beyond that, all politicing aside (which is high nie to impossible with Moore's film) I think the single most important fact that comes out is the Bush family ties with the bin Ladin family. I heard about this about two years ago on a CBC show called the Fith Estate. Very interesting, very disturbing. Very tight ties.
For me, a lot of the stuff that seems to be in Moore's film isn't new information. I've known about a lot of this crap for some time. But I think it will be an eye opener for many people.
Moore's presentation may be a little off, and perhaps misleading (directly or indirectly) in some places, but I would venture to guess that there will be far more truth contained there-in than you will find in any of Bush's speaches since his election, if not before.
Disclaimer: I'm not Republican or Democrate. Both parties are whacked and corrupt to the core as far as I am concerened. I am Independant.
The Bush family does have strong ties to the powerful Bin Laden and Saud families in Saudi arabia, but keep in mind the bin Ladens disowned Osama for being radical and speaking out against the Saudi situation (let alone being involved in terrorist activities). Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread like I did the draft thread. This is about anti-moore films.
ive watched his films, agreed with some of his points, but he didnt present alot of his arguments very well, but i thought that he got his point accross....then i did some research, and saw some reports about his movies, and how much shit he just makes up, or conveniently leaves out to "prove" his point, and i pretty much lost any respect i had for his work after that. making a point is one thing...lying or not telling the whole truth to do so is another thing entirely.
so fuck em....ill find my own facts thank you
I wont fail now
Can't disagree with that.Originally posted by Skank so fuck em....ill find my own facts thank you
I'm fairly new to Moore's work, so I don't have anything to pull from other than 2nd party opinions. I'll go see his film and see how much jives with what I know. I've got a fairly good Bullshit Detector, and can usually pick up when either political party is trying to feed a line of crap.
MDuckett, never mind that they funded his operations up until just recently (around 2000 or so - I'll see if I can dig up the source on this for you).
I think saying someone hates america goes far further than blaming them for the state of being in the nation or asking where his country went(dude where's my country). its a personal criticism of moore, however unlike moore's books, it seems that moore hates america might skate very close to slander.And yet he reacts the same way when people take umbrage to titles like Stupid White Men ...and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation!
i agree it would have been much more exciting to watch the entire conversation between moore and the rep kennendy instead of seeing some of the other stuff included in the trailer. after watching the trailer again, that part seems open ended. the question is posed, but there is no time for any answer. does it matter? some people like me dont really care about that part but enjoy other segments like john ashcroft singing and bush addressing the "have-mores."And that's not what happens in the film and it is a memorable moment in the trailer!
the country has been growing towards a divide for a long time. look at the last presidental election. it was a statistical dead heat with the popular vote going to the loser(?!). the evets of september 11th have served to bring everyone together, but the actions of our government in the years following have alienated its own citizens as well as other nations. on september 12th everyone stood together and now the divide is growing. we were already divided and moore doesnt serve to affect that. he just serves to entertain the liberals in the same way your drug addicted rush limbaugh does for conservatives. if you want fair and balanced, go listen to npr. thats the closest that you'll find.My issue with Moore is he is in a power position and he is using that power to divide and mollify...
He doesn't strive to do anyhing but line his pockets at the expense of a country that would never legislate he couldn't speak his mind. Kinda like selling out your parents for a nice paycheck when the have supported you without fail.we were already divided and moore doesnt serve to affect that.
So... there's a statement. It categorically states that my opinion is that you are NOT F.o.S. and anyone who said that you were would be wrong. Correct?
.Quote me on that... like this and you have said nothing I didn't say-"To say that Stalecracker is full of shit would be a huge fallacy and if it were ever reported that he were- the purveyor of such a lie would be a dolt and worthy of stoning"
And you lied... without making a single thing up."Stalecracker is full of shit...a dolt and worthy of stoning"
But the way you report it is what people remember.
Last edited by stalecracker; June 16th, 2004 at 12:19 PM.
Moore is annoying, but he can be funny at times. It's just sad, because people will take this movie at face value without thinking about it, or bothering to verify facts. Moore fans will get worse, and his critics too.
Ahh, I love the smell of political BS in the morning!
if i am understanding this correctly, you are implying that moore is taking advantage of the anti-bush, anti-war sentiment to make money. does it really matter? as was said in the fahrenheit 9/11 thread, most people that are going to see him movie most likely already agree with him. people are willingly giving him their money to be entertained. it helps provoke a national discussion. is that more important than fabrications? i don't know. but in this case, i believe that the big picture is more important than the small one. essentially, what moore and many liberals want is not to stop the war on terror, but a less secretive and more open document. i dont really understand your analogy about selling your parents. its a free market economy. if moore makes things that sell, then of course he will make make more. also, your point does not really address the point of america being divided, but instead acts more as an attack on moore. i believe this is called a red herring.He doesn't strive to do anyhing but line his pockets at the expense of a country that would never legislate he couldn't speak his mind. Kinda like selling out your parents for a nice paycheck when the have supported you without fail.
asa for the being full of shit analogy, i dont think its fair to single out moore just for that. everyone in politics has their tricks. i mean we can talk about bill o'reilly of the "fair and balanced" fox news channel. the list goes on and on both sides of people that are in the public eye that knowingly misrepresent and mislead the public. the campaign ads for president are good examples of that. both sides are doing it. but i think of moore as a high school kid writting a thesis paper. i agree with his thesis and some of his findings, but some of it is outlandish, but that doesnt mean the whole thing is ruined.
i find your use of my name in your example offensive and immature. i could say more, but i assume that it wont make any difference. and of course if i did, you would be backed by people who know who you are what you do as opposed to me who hardly anyone knows what i do or where i work. i just dont want any special treatment.
Last edited by seb; June 8th, 2004 at 05:06 PM.
While i think Moore has some good messages, his movies dont always tell the truth. I live in Canada, and we DO lock our doors. If somebody walked in my front door witha camera, i'd go at em with a nine iron. So i think Moore is into sensationalism, while still having sections of truth. Shows like the fifth estate here in Canada as has been mentioned are much better sources.
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