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Thread: Breaking Gender Roles

  1. #66
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    "as i recall fat chicks were considered beautiful."

    This is the Venus of Willendorf. Shes about 23000 years old and looking pretty good for her age I think.

    Breaking Gender Roles

    Ive no idea what these peoples names are. Theyre about 23 years old. Tell me a nice safe cave, a warm fire to keep out the snow and wolves, some animal pelts and one or both of these lovelies doesnt sound good.

    Breaking Gender Roles
    Breaking Gender Roles

    Actually the attractiveness to men of adult vs childlike (peramorphic vs neontonous) features in women during wartime vs peacetime has been tracked and makes interesting reading.

    Neoteny is the preservation of childlike characteristics into adulthood. Interestingly adult bird "morphology appears to be equivalent to the juvenile stage of the dinosaurs from which they evolved." Why neotonous features were selected for is unknown although there are plenty of possible reasons. Preservation of juvenile features into adulthood also marks out humans from other great apes.
    Theres maybe a gene or suite of genes that might be switched on in birds that cause them to grow into some kind of saurian style adult. That would be awesome! And maybe humans would mature into... fuck knows, Protectors I guess!?

    http://www.isegoria.net/2012/06/did-...ive-dinosaurs/
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; August 3rd, 2012 at 02:25 AM.
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  4. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by manlybrian View Post
    I hope this revolution doesn't ruin Power Girl. She would have nothing left to offer the nerd community.
    Well, they got rid of the boob window anyway. And the long sleeves. And the bob. And really, anything that would make her recognizable. That thing on her chest looks vaguely like a P, maybe?

    I think they actually made her skinnier...

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  6. #68
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    They actually revised the new PG costume (for the better, overall, although the "P" is still goofy) after that image was released. Here's the published version of the Perez Cover, along with Kevin Maguire's variant:

    Attachment 1532632
    Last edited by Elwell; August 3rd, 2012 at 04:07 AM.

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  8. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    They actually revised the new PG costume (for the better, overall, although the "P" is still goofy) after that image was released. Here's the published version of the Perez Cover, along with Kevin Maguire's variant:

    Attachment 1532632
    Not crazy about it at all, but man that looks much better. Was the public shaming that bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArviK View Post
    IMHO body image is created by society, but its the biology that ultimately drives that. And its pointless to go against biology, you cant beat it no matter how noble the goal.
    I would agree, as most would, that the brain's deep survival wiring strongly governs this.
    But the way it manifests itself is surprisingly adaptable to social influences.

    Women's fashion is an expression of how these surface preoccupations shift - you only have to think of the flat chested 20s, the small waisted 50s, the tom boyish 60s, the square shouldered 80s and the coy-pixy-like current decade to see this.

    Regarding women, it seems to me that the limbic system (emotional centre of the brain) is surprisingly open to the pliability of the unconscious filters with regard to their response to shifting cultural status cues.
    For example, the fat guy with a cigar standing by big new car creates a rush in many modern women that it would fail to do with her rainforest-dwelling sisters.

    Regarding men, the sexual impulse is less governed by the limbic system's influence and seems to be a more direct response to the automatic brain filters switching on and off to incomming visual patterns.

    However, for both men and women, the adaptability of our response is always rooted in the same survival/reproduction preoccupations of our fundamental animal makeup.
    The tray upon which it is served, and the vessels upon it may change, but the dinner remains essentially the same.
    Last edited by Chris Bennett; August 3rd, 2012 at 04:36 AM.
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  10. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    They actually revised the new PG costume (for the better, overall, although the "P" is still goofy) after that image was released. Here's the published version of the Perez Cover, along with Kevin Maguire's variant:
    It's just not the same.

    Breaking Gender Roles
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  11. #72
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    Well, I think it's not just a matter of idealised woman-fat woman things, but rather more diversity needed in portrayed fictional characters in general.

    I mean, really, when it comes down to it, the charisma of a person or character is much more likely to give people the idea they're beautiful than proportions ever are. But then, implying that charisma in the first place is an art of it's own.
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    Well...I'm back to the Batwoman picture again.

    I was browsing through this on DA, since I found the whole thing a little strange. Sure her picture is fine, but there are still some flaws in it. Then I noticed a link that someone posted of an old Batwoman cover, and voila, she seems to have copied a lot from that picture. Also explains why her light and shadow made no sense in her picture, because she used the same shading as in the cover. Not saying it's the same picture...but it explains a lot for me.

    http://www.comicbookbrain.com/_image...ue-1-cover.jpg

    But on the whole body type thing, I think the image of a woman today is stupid. I'm a really thin body type, but the likelyhood of me having head sized breast on that body is impossible.

    I think artist that respect the different bodytypes should try to remember that and stick to those ideas, and not fall into drawing to "please" the market. Which I'm sure can happen for artist that start to work for big companies, for example in the comic industry.
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  14. #74
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    Hmm... well spotted Ameza. In which case it's a double whammy, also making the original crit invalid to a degree, seeing as that 'presentation' of women has indeed made it on to a cover, despite being, er... 'copied'.

    Perhaps though we could possibly move on one day from valuing what a woman looks like as more important than anything else. I shan't hold my breath...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ameza View Post
    I think artist that respect the different bodytypes should try to remember that and stick to those ideas, and not fall into drawing to "please" the market. Which I'm sure can happen for artist that start to work for big companies, for example in the comic industry.
    If only it were that easy, as when an artist starts with an existing IP they have to conform their approach to some extent. Of course they are employed for their 'style', but you won't last long if you try to be a maverick, unless, of course, you're approached to redesign or invent based upon your way of working. It is possible to change things slowly, but it has to be done more... stealthily... more clandestinely...
    Last edited by Aly Fell; August 3rd, 2012 at 10:02 AM. Reason: slepnilg
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Tell me a nice safe cave, a warm fire to keep out the snow and wolves, some animal pelts and one or both of these lovelies doesnt sound good.
    If the Venus and the first girl are what float your boat, fine (hurrah for diversity and all that); but I already know what body types I'm attracted to, ta all the same. I'll just stick to the modern world with things in it like nutritional science and the occassional stairmaster.

    Also, weird dinosaur tangent. Comics don't have enough neornithines?
    ...which is only my opinion.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aly Fell View Post
    It is possible to change things slowly, but it has to be done more... stealthily... more clandestinely...
    Yes that's true, I'm sure it's very hard in this industry. But, let's then at least, very stealthily, try to keep our goals
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ameza View Post
    Then I noticed a link that someone posted of an old Batwoman cover, and voila, she seems to have copied a lot from that picture. Also explains why her light and shadow made no sense in her picture, because she used the same shading as in the cover. Not saying it's the same picture...but it explains a lot for me.

    http://www.comicbookbrain.com/_image...ue-1-cover.jpg
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aly Fell View Post
    It is possible to change things slowly, but it has to be done more... stealthily... more clandestinely...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ameza View Post
    Yes that's true, I'm sure it's very hard in this industry. But, let's then at least, very stealthily, try to keep our goals
    I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about big boobs in comics, not reds under the bed.

    What is it about unrealistic body images in comics that has to be dealt with 'clandestinely'? Sites like Eschergirls seem to do okay by shouting it from the rooftops: "lolol look at this stupid art!" Are you two names in the industry, planning on doing a reverse Wally Wood and gradually shrinking Power Girl's breasts until someone notices; or are you just engaging in a spot of mutual back-patting? What is your top-secret classified idea for belling the cat?
    ...which is only my opinion.
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