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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonor View Post
    I thought it was:

    1. Ask questions.
    2. Find mistakes.
    3. Correct them.
    I really like what u wrote in regard to asking questions. What [kind] of information, are you looking for, from the Artist? You also, write that you find & correct "mistakes"- how do you, personally define a "mistake"-Are you referring to the "technical skills /draftsmanship" of the artist, or something different? When you write that You correct-the "Mistake"-why would you do that?-instead of letting the artist-figure out, a solution to the problem?
    I stopped fighting my inner demons; we're on the same side now...


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  3. #32
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    [QUOTE=eezacque@xs4all.nl;3515165]I think it very much depends on where you go with your critique: demonstrate your knowledge of art and its application (school, theoretical side), help an artist to improve (school, practical side), explain why artwork was accepted or rejected (show, contest, industry). I think your format serves the first use very well, while it is impractical for the other two.



    Partially what you write is true. I really want to respond & clarify, this issue of the theoretical side of Art & demonstration of [my] knowledge of art and its application[s]. However, I need to think about how, to frame what I want say. What I can write, straight-up is, to add that it is NOT -"MY" knowledge that is of import, but that knowledge of the individual artist, so, as to be able to justify, his/her *Intent* in creating the work. This is why when someone mentioned -"Asking Questions", I was interested to know/learn what kind of information the person thought was neccesary to learn from the artist...
    I will respond-back...However "Art-Shows/Competitions" ?! OMG! Rule of thumb-1]-Know thy Judge...If the Judge is an Artist, well it's easy to find to find-out what kind of work-your judge prefers, isn't it & create accordingly. Please...someone could be, Totally Brilliant & gather enough rejection slips [from various shows, ect] to paper his/her wall with.
    I stopped fighting my inner demons; we're on the same side now...

  4. #33
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    My focus when speaking to young art students is to expand their perspective... so they begin to more fully appreciate the nature of artistic quality, the knowledge base of working pros and the breadth of considerations associated with either. Epistemological humility is the general result, along with respect for the accomplishments and imaginative candle power of the best artists.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post

    An artist who knows how to make a masterwork, knows how to critique a painting. Everybody else is faking it to one degree or another (depending on the skill level evident in their works.)
    Well, that's unusual but I mostly agree with Kev.
    I have just a caveat on this part above. Mostly because I know great artists who can't express themselves for some reason and couldn't give a crit if their lives depended on it. And I know a few art directors who are much better at art directing than they are at painting. Maybe their critiques are not structured the same way a master painter with normal eloquence would, but I find their critiques very competent and valuable. I think however that they have to train and learn to get to that point, not just be self important twats.

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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    My focus when speaking to young art students is to expand their perspective... so they begin to more fully appreciate the nature of artistic quality, the knowledge base of working pros and the breadth of considerations associated with either. Epistemological humility is the general result, along with respect for the accomplishments and imaginative candle power of the best artists.
    What do you mean by expand their perspective? (I can make assumptions of what you mean, but I'd rather be clear

    I'm also meh on the whole compliment sandwich thing. Yes, it's a great idea to encourage students with what they did right, but frankly that's not at all how it works in production. No one spends much if any time going over what went right so the idea of having to come up with two positives around a negative seems rather restrictive.

  8. #36
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    Qitsune - Competent art directors generally have a mastery of their necessities, which is really a question of understanding the assignment and its relationship to the target commercial market. They might be better suited than an artist to critique certain aspects of the artist's work. (surprised to hear I am mostly disagreeable to you. )

    Alice - to expand the perspective - the introduction of wider/bigger/broader classes of information, causing a scalar increase in aesthetic awareness, aka a paradigm shift. To blow the mind, in common parlance.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    to expand the perspective - the introduction of wider/bigger/broader classes of information, causing a scalar increase in aesthetic awareness, aka a paradigm shift. To blow the mind, in common parlance.
    I know you're really knowledgeable, kev, but seriously?

    Meh. I guess it does add a bit of character to your posts since you never use an avatar.

  11. #38
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    Kev's name is it's own avatar.

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  13. #39
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    Sipher, I appreciate the effort you've taken in writing your posts.

    However, if you are open to receiving critique yourself, I'd like to offer some. You use far too many dashes, brackets and asterisks. It would be far easier to read if you simply used sentences with a more traditional structure. It makes my eyes want to bleed.


    Thank you.

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
    Man, that's a shitty world-view. Bet you're a blast at parties.
    I haven't been to a party since I was three.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post
    I know you're really knowledgeable, kev, but seriously?

    Meh. I guess it does add a bit of character to your posts since you never use an avatar.
    Well, I was being semi-serious in the way I put it (If you knew me IRL, you'd read everything I write a lot winkier.)

    Except...

    Listen, I've seen this happen a hundred times. You see some art student struggling with the fingernails on a hand because "it just doesn't look right." And you explain to them that if the sweep of the hand looks right, the fingernail becomes of secondary concern and easier to place. Or, as F.R. Gruger put it, "if the composition is right, the detail will fall into place." But when you tell them this, you can feel the gears gnashing. Because they haven't learned to think bigger yet. They don't get gestalt relationships.

    Paradigm shifts are mind blowing, quite literally. Because a strong epiphany is an instant explosion of a thought cage, revealing greater possibility.

    Garin Baker had a really great summer intern at his Carriage House studio, and I painted all summer with this guy, and he expressed his frustration time and again with his inability to grasp the elusive "larger picture." You keep hammering away at the same concepts of larger relationships again and again, and then one day, the scales fall, and the resistance fades, and a whole different vista opens up.

    I can feel my own resistance to larger questions when I look at Caroline Anderson's or Quang Ho's life paintings. So I too am struggling to break down my own rigidities and break through to better artmaking. (In fact, I'm off to paint from the model right now!)
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
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  18. #42
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    Mm. My last epiphany was when I learned how a horizon and eye level worked. I really need to get another one, because that was around the time I joined this site, so 4 years ago. Need to reread more stuff because I know it takes a good while for stuff to stick with me, let alone register.


    Little aside:

    This entire time I thought to OP was by that one member (If memory serves, he considers himself a critic) who periodically makes really loopy long-winded posts every couple of months and disappears.

    I thought it was strange to see that this thread was still going. From what I've seen, no one bothers with the one guy's threads at all.

    That's what I get for not actually reading the post.
    Last edited by Psychotime; August 1st, 2012 at 06:15 PM.

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post

    Little aside:

    This entire time I thought to OP was by that one member (If memory serves, he considers himself a critic) who periodically makes really loopy long-winded posts every couple of months and disappears.
    You're thinking http://conceptart.org/forums/member.php?u=57075

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  21. #44
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    Yeah! That's him!

    If I bothered to read the OP instead of just noticing the size of the posts and ignoring them outright, I would have noticed from the get go that it was someone else.

    “DON’T TAKE ME AN AUTHORITY. I AM SIMPLY EXPRESSING A VERY PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW. NOTHING FINAL ABOUT IT. YOU HAVE TO SETTLE ALL THESE MATTERS FOR YOURSELF."
    ROBERT HENRI
    *
    * Flash-back*
    [Early 1980's] NYC, School of Visual Arts,
    * [FALSE]-NO POINTS FOR YOU, HERE, "BIG KEV" . *Grins*
    An artist who knows how to make a masterwork, knows how to critique a painting.
    *
    *False-Many artists that, I have had the pleasure to meet & be "taught by", do not communicate that well, verbally. Furthermore, many do not like [the feeling] in doing a critique on anyone else's work but their own efforts. That is just the way they were built , as people & they will quite openly admit to that. Some recognized artists, just don't want to be bothered with anyone's agendas save their own...not a problem; that's their natures & their legacy is that their personal work, teaches...
    Wow. I feel like watching an award winning movie staring Jack Nicholson, now.
    Last edited by Psychotime; August 1st, 2012 at 06:46 PM.

  22. #45
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    There are exceptions to Kev's rule. But they are exceptions that proof the rule...

    Sister Wendy is a good example. She floated up into the public consciousness about 20 years ago for all the wrong reasons, yet she was the real deal; she had actually touched the flame without ever making fire herself. She was in an utterly different class to the legions of clueless pundits regularly wheeled out on the late night culture programmes...

    Roger Scruton, Robert Hughes and Brian Sewell also come to mind.
    Last edited by Chris Bennett; August 1st, 2012 at 07:31 PM.
    From Gegarin's point of view
    http://www.chrisbennettartist.co.uk/

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