Does learning to "see" simply come with time/practice of drawing from observation? - Page 3
 
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  1. #61
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    Can't we just leave it open and lay off the Betty Edwards bashing/fanboying? Pretty sure everything that can be said has been on that subject... >.<

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  4. #62
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    Don't worry Mark, I was just playing silly buggers.
    Not really going to close it...yet...

    Got no problem if people want to bash Betty, so
    long as they state a reason for doing so. It looks
    like opinion is pretty divided on the forums regarding
    her book.

    But I agree that the topic has veered far away from
    your initial question, which was:

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkSturm View Post
    I'm trying to get back into getting into drawing, and this is the one thing that's really sticking with me. I can't see.

    I'm just drawing with pencil and paper, but I can't seem to get past drawing simple lines, with complex/fine detail like faces proving inaccurate and all shading being pretty arbitrary.

    I simply find it really hard to translate what I'm seeing into values and then reproducing it. Closing one eye seems to make translating objects in front of me into a flat plane that I can start reproducing, but I just can't get a handle on seeing and reproducing value shapes/areas, rather than just the lines between them.

    Does that make any sense? Has anyone else felt the same when first starting out?


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  5. #63
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    In my limited experience with this, I believe things develop over time, you basically need to "rewrite" your programing imho.
    It's like someone telling you the fundamental ideas of the integral and differential calculus. If you don't invest the time learning the basics, plus study and solving some examples, you're not going to be any wiser.
    You can read or listen to some tutor all you want, but nothing is ever learned without practice, study smart and spend what time you can grinding the shit out of it, and I do call it a grind, because most of the time it will probably will feel stupid and frustrating as fuck.

    If you're having problems with faces then there’s no way around it, you need to draw more faces.
    Faces are great imo, you got details all over, proportions can't be slacked and they are heavy on values, it can be fairly easy to spot your own mistakes as well, you may not have a clue on how to fix them, but after you have been trying to draw that "fucking nose" over NINE-THOUSAND times pieces will fall in place slowly, it's a constant chase of those small "A-HA!" moments tbh

    My two cents on Betty… (gotta comment it.. I'm a retard "woop woop") I was 31 and hadn't been drawing since elementary school and my first step into drawing was with Betty Edwards and well it was great for me at least, I had some fast positive experiences which I think was very important. It is what it is a good introduction, that's my belief at least.
    It feels a bit like discussing exercise routines, who gives a fuck if you're using a friend's routines, some professional trainer or P90XXXL extreme. If you feel like you're getting results and you can stick to the grind, then who gives a shit about names. Everyone learns differently the figuring out how you work is "fucking money" (in a Randy Marsh voice).

    I apologize for my English or lack thereof

    I want to draw - I have to draw!
    ... I just need to learn first.
    My blog - L2Draw
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  7. #64
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    Looks like I am late to the feast. I've missed a direct question, too, but better answer it late than never.

    Quote Originally Posted by element1988 View Post
    Can you give an example of how you would construct an object from life? It seems when I try to do that instead of just drawing what I see, it never looks like what I'm drawing.
    One way to do it is by mentally tracking the symmetries, level lines, tangents, center lines, and marking them down on paper as needed. Throw some measurement in, and you can construct an object from life quite easily.

    The real trick to this is thinking of the volume, not the image. Sometimes this principle is called "drawing the invisible ear" - as in, when you are drawing a head, you don't just mark what you see, you must also think of what you do not see but what is important for the structure and form.

    There is a quick sample of a structure tracked like this here: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...=228670&page=2


    As for Edwards, I agree that the book can persuade someone that they can learn to draw, too. I just wish it actually went beyond breaking the ice and provided some real drawing method, instead of a few tricks that can seem like improvement during Ms Edwards' three-day course.

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  8. #65
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    So what would be the best books for the beginners to learn how to draw?
    Anything apart from Loomis?
    Would be great to hear which book is helpful apart from everyday practice of course

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  9. #66
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    Try Preston Blair's "Cartoon Animation". And Norling's "Perspective Made Easy".

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  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash77 View Post
    So what would be the best books for the beginners to learn how to draw?
    Anything apart from Loomis?
    Would be great to hear which book is helpful apart from everyday practice of course
    Try JD Hardings Lessons on Drawing Guptills Rendering in Pencil or Ted Kautzky's Pencil book for different approaches to drawing environments and good structure basics. The last two are out of print but worth a look if you can find copies on Ebay or Amazon.

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  11. #68
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    I'm trying to get back into getting into drawing, and this is the one thing that's really sticking with me. I can't see.

    I'm just drawing with pencil and paper, but I can't seem to get past drawing simple lines, with complex/fine detail like faces proving inaccurate and all shading being pretty arbitrary.

    I simply find it really hard to translate what I'm seeing into values and then reproducing it. Closing one eye seems to make translating objects in front of me into a flat plane that I can start reproducing, but I just can't get a handle on seeing and reproducing value shapes/areas, rather than just the lines between them.

    Does that make any sense? Has anyone else felt the same when first starting out?
    Copy the set up seen here

    http://artandinfluence.blogspot.co.u...mums-demo.html

    but instead of having the coloured perfume bottles etc under a single light source, try to find something like these http://www.giustgallery.com/anatomical-sculpture.php or if money is tight make some objects out of plain white paper.

    Hope it helps

    Learning to see

    "...the ideas are what matter most" Doug Chiang
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  12. #69
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    Vilppu stuff is a nice read.

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