Does learning to "see" simply come with time/practice of drawing from observation? - Page 2
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 69
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
    (Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

    But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
    they make any edits regarding some of the content....

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    1,238
    Thanks
    889
    Thanked 1,535 Times in 567 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    More over, while you draw, you usually think about images, you talk to yourself, so the frontal lobe (which is where the 99% of the "thinking" happens) is deeply involved, and if you aren't just thinking about images, but you actually speak to yourself in your head, then the language area is in the left hemisphere is involved.
    This is really interesting. At certain points while drawing I only feel like I've reached "my place" when I turn all this extraneous noise off. I teach my students to get to a place, kind of like the zone for athletes, where everything is a purely visual as possible.

    There are other stages where noise in the background helps me stay in an intense state for repetitive work etc. I've often thought that the background noise is helping me drown out the other voices in my brain. Interesting.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to bcarman For This Useful Post:


  4. #33
    dpaint's Avatar
    dpaint is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks
    2,628
    Thanked 5,889 Times in 2,359 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Star Eater View Post
    Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
    (Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

    But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
    they make any edits regarding some of the content....
    By the way I wrote to them about 3 dimensional drawing, the version of Successful Drawing revised by Loomis himself and so far they have not responded.

    I'm of two minds on this since I want the books to be financially successful for Titan but damn it print the right versions. Its obviously someone who could give a shit not doing due diligence on the research.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    By the way I wrote to them about 3 dimensional drawing, the version of Successful Drawing revised by Loomis himself and so far they have not responded.

    I'm of two minds on this since I want the books to be financially successful for Titan but damn it print the right versions. Its obviously someone who could give a shit not doing due diligence on the research.
    Yeah, I was going to bump that thread and ask if you had heard, but
    I figured you would have told us if you did.

    The alternative would be to try one of the other addresses...but I get
    the feeling that would also just be spinning your wheels. It is definitely
    part of the Loomis collection. I'll drop them a mail as well for what it's worth.
    Perhaps other interested parties could do the same.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Downunder
    Posts
    17
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Star Eater View Post
    Just on that, Titan Publishers are set to have the remaining Loomis books
    (Fun with a Pencil) out by 2013.

    But as Armand and I chatted about recently, it will be interesting to see if
    they make any edits regarding some of the content....
    What's wrong with the content? I have most of Loomis' books in PDF (naughty, I know) and am slowly collecting the ones I have been reading (gotta love bookdepository).

    And how did this turn into another Betty Edwards thread? >.<

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #36
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkSturm View Post
    What's wrong with the content?
    pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  9. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    475
    Thanked 234 Times in 214 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.
    Granted, but it was the time period....the same with a lot of Frazetta's work.

    Personally, I'm not offended by it and I'd rather have the drawings in than out.

    My Sketchbook: Criticisms and Feedback needed

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    381
    Thanks
    285
    Thanked 305 Times in 135 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    pp. 84-85 in Fun with a Pencil could be an issue.
    "Now let's mix up the races!"

    No, Loomis, noooo!


    We are cups, constantly and quietly being filled. The trick is, knowing how to tip ourselves over and let the beautiful stuff out.
    - Ray Bradbury
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #39
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    They kept the "Negroid" around in Hogarth's books...so who knows... but this one is more than one so I'm sure there will be some "fun" there.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    This came to mind.



    Last edited by Psychotime; July 24th, 2012 at 08:20 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #41
    dpaint's Avatar
    dpaint is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks
    2,628
    Thanked 5,889 Times in 2,359 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotime View Post
    This came to mind.

    That looks like a "grey" with a bad wig. Where is that
    from?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    One of those How to Draw Manga books.

    This one.



    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #44
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Could be worse

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

    I'm just sayin'
    What's wrong with keeping sliced watermelon in your bag, other than it could get messy if you don't saran wrap it?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, Fl
    Posts
    634
    Thanks
    475
    Thanked 234 Times in 214 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Could be worse

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

    I'm just sayin'
    lol...damn

    My Sketchbook: Criticisms and Feedback needed

    "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    That clip ended too soon! I wanted to see what happened next.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    225
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 90 Times in 58 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I didn't know there was a revised version of Successful Drawing by Loomis. Does anyone know what that missing section on perspective covered? I've tried searching on Google, but all I can find is that it was sixteen pages long or something. Aside from that missing content, the reprints are really nice and good quality. They beat the hell out of the old PDF versions floating around on the internet.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. #48
    dpaint's Avatar
    dpaint is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,658
    Thanks
    2,628
    Thanked 5,889 Times in 2,359 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by zx52hg View Post
    I didn't know there was a revised version of Successful Drawing by Loomis. Does anyone know what that missing section on perspective covered? I've tried searching on Google, but all I can find is that it was sixteen pages long or something.
    It shows applications for the methods of perspective in the book. So each page tackles a specific method

    Putting Perspective to Work
    Your Relationship to What You See (2 pages)
    Relation of Horizon and Ground Plane
    Building a Picture to Scale
    Drawing any object within a block
    Repeating units by means of Diagonals
    Even Spacing of Units
    Spacing on Uneven Ground
    Aligning Uprights Along a curve
    Using a Scaled Ground Plan
    Indicating Time of Day By Shadows
    Shadows Of Irregular Forms
    Perspective Lines Without Distant Vanishing Points (2 pages)
    Scaling a Picture Into Planned Dimensions

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  22. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Could be worse

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vaFTWzw_x8

    I'm just sayin'
    Oh c'mon! No "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs"? No "Half-Pint Pygmy"? That video is severely lacking.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Psychotime For This Useful Post:


  24. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WA State
    Posts
    2,364
    Thanks
    796
    Thanked 1,273 Times in 887 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Bert Dodson’s Keys To Drawing and Rudy DeReyna’s How To Draw What You See are both commonly available, cheap, and really good books.

    Reading these in conjunction with Edwards would pick up where Edwards leaves off and probably give an intro level learner all the cognitive tools they need to draw—cognitive tools they would need to sharpen and learn to wield efficiently with lots of hard work.

    But, I’m not in the business of teaching people how to draw.

    And, I still think Loomis tends to take a flying leap into the middle of a lot of intermediate material in his books.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Kamber Parrk For This Useful Post:


  26. #51
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,234
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 847 Times in 457 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Yes I find Loomis has a lot of "Do this simple thing + ??? =success!"

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Qitsune For This Useful Post:


  28. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Yeah, this well known scan is actually taken directly from 'Fun with a Pencil'



    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Star Eater For This Useful Post:


  30. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Star Eater View Post
    Yeah, this well known scan is actually taken directly from 'Fun with a Pencil'

    i lol'd

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #54
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    Forget the "right brain mode" nonsense and don't try to break the drawing down into patches of light and shadow, it's a dead end.

    Learn to draw structurally, instead. Your eye may be "seeing" patches of light and dark, but your brain is seeing the solid form in space. Learn to be aware of that form and reconstruct it on paper. Then your drawing will work.
    Not to "re-jack" the thread but...I strongly disagree here arenhaus. Your drawing (or painting) "works" when you get the right mark in the right place with the right edge, value and color. If some construction helps with that, great...but it usually has a great deal more to do with observation and sensitivity (at least when working from life of course).

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  33. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    2,110
    Thanks
    801
    Thanked 909 Times in 455 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Just because I found better books doesn't mean it was gonna kill someone to look at Edwards book if they just started out.
    neither would it kill anyone to admit, its a poor choice amongst a variety of great books out there waiting to be read.

    actually i dont see your points... whats the purpose of defending something thats quite obviously subpar to other options, that take the same effort to aquire and process?

    yes, reading it (i actually did) didnt cripple me... but where the fuck is the relation to producing art and its learning process in that statement?


    i dont distrust you its been a stepping stone to where you are at... and a totally justified, beneficial, starting everything off... one at that. but now you know better... why dont you say something else would be better, but rather say "it didnt bite the fingers of my drawing hand off when i tried to open it".

    newest sketchbook
    oil paintings

    "Have only 4 values, but all the edges you want." Glen Orbik
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. The Following User Says Thank You to sone_one For This Useful Post:


  35. #56
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sone_one View Post
    neither would it kill anyone to admit, its a poor choice amongst a variety of great books out there waiting to be read.

    actually i dont see your points... whats the purpose of defending something thats quite obviously subpar to other options, that take the same effort to aquire and process?

    yes, reading it (i actually did) didnt cripple me... but where the fuck is the relation to producing art and its learning process in that statement?
    I like how people try to make it seem like "This book" will produce a mistake free drawing cycle because it is "more superior"

    It's kinda bullshit you know?

    As I said it's the easiest to recommend because it's the easiest book for someone to pick up and amazingly without legal problems or most of the time doesn't even cost a dime.

    Avoiding or not avoiding a book is not going to stop all the other work it takes anyways. So in the end someone doing something out of Betty Edwards book is not so bad - they could be spending money on shit like Christopher Hart books ... though I think those have also flooded the libraries now due to people just giving up on them

    The process of making mistakes is also being able to pick up what book helps you click. Just because now you see it as subpar doesn't mean you stopping someone from reading it is going to "Save their life" or even fucking save time on "Drawing better".

    Everyone starts somewhere. I'm sure no one has not picked up a bad book they enjoyed learning to draw from, Hart included.

    Last edited by Arshes Nei; July 27th, 2012 at 05:12 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  37. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    2,110
    Thanks
    801
    Thanked 909 Times in 455 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    your point is?

    its not [as bad as the christopher hart books?
    or
    it didnt harm me on the long run?
    ...

    c'mon this is redicilious ... the question generally is... what should i do/read to aquire that or that knowledge... i just dont see any reason to advise or advocate books that are proven to be weaker than other available options.

    all this betty edwards argument just started when daj22602 attacked arenhaus for saying its crap... and i think noone would deny, that compared to other books, it is.
    noone is ment to be attacked personally and if you got some spare time ... read it ... why not.
    but if youre out for instruction... forget it and read other (better) books.

    looking back at your progession... would you say betty edwards had a major impact? that helped you more than other books?

    and if no... why advocating it?

    if yes... i got a list full of book recommendations for you.

    newest sketchbook
    oil paintings

    "Have only 4 values, but all the edges you want." Glen Orbik
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  38. #58
    Arshes Nei's Avatar
    Arshes Nei is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sone_one View Post
    your point is?


    looking back at your progession... would you say betty edwards had a major impact? that helped you more than other books?

    and if no... why advocating it?

    if yes... i got a list full of book recommendations for you.
    It got me to start drawing more instead of "uhhh well how do I start, what do I do" I'm sorry if this chaps your hide so much, but honestly? Get over it.

    I think something helping someone to start no matter how bad it is, is fine. Most people can access the book and start. I've seen more people feel less intimidated with that book than more with other GREAT books to start with.

    If Christopher Hart got people to start drawing and enjoy it, more power to that - however, if they want to get better. What matters more is the progress and the fact people will then seek alternatives.

    I still don't understand "how dare you defend this book" to someone when

    1. I was a kid. I understood the exercises tried it and went... "oh never thought of that"

    2. No matter how great you think a book is, if it doesn't click with the person there will be no progress.

    That's why even though people complain about Bridgman for example, I can only offer them suggestions in the order of which to approach the books and avoiding the "Complete" version because it has some bad editing. If they still want to use it, fine. If they want to try another book, that's also fine.

    I can say why I don't like Hogarth or X number of books...but in the end if it works for other people then that's great.

    So yeah, if people find that Betty Edwards helps them off with beginner work, I'm not gonna knock it. Because they have a long journey ahead anyways.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  39. The Following User Says Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  40. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Vienna
    Posts
    2,110
    Thanks
    801
    Thanked 909 Times in 455 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    meh, this is moot...

    i hereby admit betty edwards' book most likely aint going to hurt you physically, without it dropping, cutting, or pinching (on) your feet/hands/face/anyother part of your body.
    and that the likelyness for you to suffer any mental harm, is as minimal as reading any other book, without considering individual dispositions.

    youre fine now?

    it still is bad instruction built upon a flawed foundation.

    newest sketchbook
    oil paintings

    "Have only 4 values, but all the edges you want." Glen Orbik
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  41. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You want me to lock this Sone, you just give the word...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •