Could you help to understand the proportion of women in cartoon?

Join 500,000+ Artists

Its' free and it takes less than 10 seconds!

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 13 of 13

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Could you help to understand the proportion of women in cartoon?

    Hi, I couldn't figure it out where I should post, so I ask my question here. I'll move it to another category if I find the right one later.
    Anyway, this is one of pages from Cartoon Animation by Preston Blair and I think the author forgot to note the proportion of this figures. I've been trying to figure it out and applying Andrew Loomis' method but it just doesn't work at all. Could you help me to understand the proportion of these type of figures? Thanks in advance.

    Name:  Temp.jpg
Views: 1686
Size:  225.6 KB

    Last edited by Aly Fell; July 20th, 2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Image resizing
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    101
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well they are all wearing invisible heels, for the rest their proportions are ok but slightly exaggerated, its a cartoon, I don't understand what exactly are you asking and why??

    Loomis's examples are slightly different in that he shoots for more realistic figures but the principles of proportions remain the same.

    So these proportions would only be a problem if he tried to convince us that its a real figure but he doesn't, its like Jessica Rabbit in Who Framed Roger Rabbit that is intentionally exaggerated to look cartoonish.

    Proportions become a real problem only when the artist is not mindful of the relation between them at all and unknowingly makes mistakes.
    Even characters that are Super deformed Have proportions, they are just different proportions intended to for a different purpose.

    If an artist wants to give his wannabe realistic female characters unrealistically giant boobs and buttocks I can't really say that is wrong, I can only voice my opinion by saying that it is unconvincing and doesn't look good..

    Hope this help clarify stuff.

    And so there is no misunderstanding, an artist who doesn't know how to draw proportional figures to begin with is a different case than what you show here and such artist can't hide behind saying that it is stylized.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to LightandDark For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I just can't find half and quarter points of the figure to begin with, and also can't find how many heads these kind of figures has. I'll try Elwell's suggestion but I don't think it's 7 heads, well, maybe. Thanks



    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    Well they are all wearing invisible heels, for the rest their proportions are ok but slightly exaggerated, its a cartoon, I don't understand what exactly are you asking and why??

    Loomis's examples are slightly different in that he shoots for more realistic figures but the principles of proportions remain the same.

    So these proportions would only be a problem if he tried to convince us that its a real figure but he doesn't, its like Jessica Rabbit in Who Framed Roger Rabbit that is intentionally exaggerated to look cartoonish.

    Proportions become a real problem only when the artist is not mindful of the relation between them at all and unknowingly makes mistakes.
    Even characters that are Super deformed Have proportions, they are just different proportions intended to for a different purpose.

    If an artist wants to give his wannabe realistic female characters unrealistically giant boobs and buttocks I can't really say that is wrong, I can only voice my opinion by saying that it is unconvincing and doesn't look good..

    Hope this help clarify stuff.

    And so there is no misunderstanding, an artist who doesn't know how to draw proportional figures to begin with is a different case than what you show here and such artist can't hide behind saying that it is stylized.


    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,180
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 2,356 Times in 1,211 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.j.kim View Post
    I just can't find half and quarter points of the figure to begin with, and also can't find how many heads these kind of figures has. I'll try Elwell's suggestion but I don't think it's 7 heads, well, maybe. Thanks
    Use a ruler? If the figure on the screen is about 5cm tall it's trivially easy to put your finger at 2.5cm and see where the half-point lies. Even easier if you print it out. Same with heads. Mark out how long the head is and measure. It'll only take you a couple of minutes to answer your proportion questions.

    You can also open the file up in a program that has built-in rulers.

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

    "There are two kinds of students: the self-taught and the hopeless."
    - Dr. Piotr Rudnicki
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    101
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.j.kim View Post
    I just can't find half and quarter points of the figure to begin with, and also can't find how many heads these kind of figures has. I'll try Elwell's suggestion but I don't think it's 7 heads, well, maybe. Thanks
    Even if it isn't 7 heads, doesn't matter, a figure can also be 5 heads tall, it can also be 9 heads..

    I'm not sure what Elwell's suggestion was but I think you should draw your own figures or if you need to draw this specific one ,follow vineris's suggestion.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,670 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    There's nothing particularly unusual about the proportions of those figures. They're about seven heads tall, on the low end of average, which makes sense because larger heads proportional to body size is a signifier of "cute." The crotches are about at the halfway point, again completely standard. The only things really exaggerated or "cartoony," besides the overall simplification, are the tiny waists relative to the chests and hips.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ovanåker, Sweden
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Looks like it's also showing how to create an S-bend to the figures to to make them feminine and graceful, so it's important to see how the head, ribcage and pelvis are tilted in order to create that effect

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,670 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I assume part of the problem is finding the size of the head under the hair? Remembering that the eyes fall about halfway down the skull (even in stylized faces like these) will help.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,569
    Thanks
    362
    Thanked 683 Times in 431 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The proportions are right there in the example. You need to learn to manipulate individual forms and how to organize them. Basically what you have there in the example is spherical form-masses suggested with circle-like graphics and conical form-masses suggested with triangle-like graphics. The formal organization from head to feet basically goes: circle - triangle - circle - triangle. Put the drawings into photoshop or whatever and draw the circles and triangles over them. Your problem is that you are looking at the "half and quarter points" instead of at the forms themselves and comparing them to each other, that is a good example of the misdirection that is commonly found in art instruction books. Might as well try to understand size relations in real life by marking hatches on a wall, a sofa is about the same height as a chair. Whether you have the knack for abstraction is revealed over time.

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to armando For This Useful Post:


  13. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hi, thanks for your advice. I think you understand and indicate what my problem is. I usually start off drawings by marking top and bottom and then mark half and quarter points of the figures. Don't people usually do this? I mean, since the space is limited and to align the height of figures. I wonder what is another way to approach for drawing figures. There probably is. And about the size relations, is there a good drawing book about that? Thanks.

    By the way, I was expecting to see someone indicating the half and quarter points of the figures but nobody did somehow. I wonder why...


    Quote Originally Posted by armando View Post
    The proportions are right there in the example. You need to learn to manipulate individual forms and how to organize them. Basically what you have there in the example is spherical form-masses suggested with circle-like graphics and conical form-masses suggested with triangle-like graphics. The formal organization from head to feet basically goes: circle - triangle - circle - triangle. Put the drawings into photoshop or whatever and draw the circles and triangles over them. Your problem is that you are looking at the "half and quarter points" instead of at the forms themselves and comparing them to each other, that is a good example of the misdirection that is commonly found in art instruction books. Might as well try to understand size relations in real life by marking hatches on a wall, a sofa is about the same height as a chair. Whether you have the knack for abstraction is revealed over time.


    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,353
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 448 Times in 314 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.j.kim View Post
    I usually start off drawings by marking top and bottom and then mark half and quarter points of the figures. Don't people usually do this? I mean, since the space is limited and to align the height of figures. I wonder what is another way to approach for drawing figures. There probably is.
    Another way is to make sure you are so acquainted with the correct proportions of the human figure that you don't need to measure so much. However, there will always be situations where it is good to measure.

    Also, I like to mark highest, lowest, lefmost and rightmost point, as well as the center point on the paper, and find the corresponding points on the model.

    And about the size relations, is there a good drawing book about that? Thanks.
    Lots of manuals spend some time on it, Loomis, Peck, Hale and Perrard jump to mind. There are two schools here, measuring the figure in head length and measuring in head width. I think that the first school is practiced most, while the other school has the advantage of relying on bony landmarks, that don't vary as much as nipples and navels. Pick one, study it and internalize its proportions till your scrotum starts to hurt when you see a drawing that is off...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to eezacque For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 22 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.j.kim View Post
    - Could you help me to understand the proportion of these type of figures? Thanks in advance.
    this line is rather puzzling to me. not to sure what needs understanding, the proportions are pretty clear and really not all that difficult to understand.

    but to give my likely useless 2 cents, Cartoons allow you to prettimuch do anything with a character and make it work for a single setting (drawn together probably proved this best with a host of purposefully stylistically diverse characters)
    so am not sure why this is the stock standard for drawing women in cartoon style. As an artist to simply get used to drawing a wide range of different types of people and then simplifying them to a more 'cute' style sounds like the most stable advise, as opposed to researching other designs attempting to understanding. you'd grow more understanding through simple learning by getting to a certain level yourself.

    (may not have understood the thread)


    Aspiring Digital Fantasy Artist
    DEVIANTART BLOGSPOT TUMBLR
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Steamhat For This Useful Post:


  18. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,569
    Thanks
    362
    Thanked 683 Times in 431 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I will assume that you are a beginner without too much experience. I think that a good book for beginners is Bert Dodson's "Keys to Drawing", it'll get you started on appreciating graphic shapes. Once you finish that I would suggest buying a set of geometric solids, one possiblity here http://www.amazon.com/BASIC-GEOMETRI...ometric+solids Buy a bag of copy paper and do a page or two of line drawings of them every day, in addition to all the other artistic practice you should be doing, until you finish it.
    The height of something doesn't tell us anything about it's mass, two people could be the same height but one could be skinny and the other fat. Alignments only give the height of something. The comparison of the head to the rest of the body isn't abstraction but comparison, abstraction involves thinking and there are many ways to do it, comparison is a purely mechanical process. Comparison of the head is also a misdirection because what they are telling you is that the size of the head determines the emotional-effect(cuteness, ugliness, brashness, intelligence...) of the body which is false... test this statement by getting pictures of a bodybuilder, a swimsuit model, and a baby, erase the heads and they continue to look like what they are, therefore it is the size relations and formal-quality of all the parts of the body related to one another that determines the emotional effect. The head just happens to be the most important since it is the most expressive thing known to man, you can communicate all emotional states using just the head, it's expressive power is so great that you can express all those emotions with zero aesthetic knowledge, you can just take photos of good actors and you will conjure emotions in the audience.

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook