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  1. #1

    Help me to learn better anatomy

    Hey guys, how are you. I would like to give me the best advice if you have for someone like me.

    I would like to be a character modeler for games. But i barely can sculpt something in Zbrush, because i have no idea of the anatomy of human or animal.

    What is the best way to learn anatomy? By Drawing it? And how that affect me to be able to sculpt digital in Zbrush to make next gen characters.

    I would prefer some good videos from learning anatomy.

    I have found a guy named Riven Phoenix, he have videos of human anatomy, and i just thought, should i buy them to learn?

     


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  3. #2
    I wouldn't advise you to get Riven's videos, cause I saw more respected members of this forum saying his figures are stiff and lifeless. If you are looking for videos, Vilppu would be a far better choice, but they are pretty expensive. However, you can also get some books and start drawing, which you'll definitely need. Scott Eaton has listed some of the anatomy books he recommends here:

    http://www.scott-eaton.com/anatomy-b...ecommendations

    You can also find his tutorial on sculpting, and the way he teaches anatomy here:

    http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/...tteaton/intro/

    You can navigate trough it by pressing buttons at lower right and left, which I find are quite hard to see.

     

  4. #3
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    By Learning some base principles of figure drawing
    By going to nude model sketch sessions on a regular basis.
    By Observing the anatomy of people and creatures around you and trying to figure out their bone and muscle-structure.
    By approaching women/men (depends on what you are into) with the canned line of "Hi, can I draw you?" and following through.

    You can also practice by observing nude pictures but keep in mind that in all cases you don't trace or copy the model you are looking at the model to analyze and feel the gesture/proportions/emotion and observe the general relativity between various body parts.
    Also keep in mind that photo-reference is no replacement for RL model.

    As for Videos Vilppu is the best I've seen so far but I think books like Andrew Loomis:Figure Drawing for all its worth are invaluable and don't think that watching the videos is a replacement for doing all the stuff mentioned above..

     

  5. #4
    Thanks guys, Yea many guys told me about Riven Phoenix tutorials. I will avoid them too.
    So Vilppu courses are the best?

    To be honest i prefer mostly videos tutorials over the books, because books, dunno how to say , i don't mind to song like a whining, but seems to messy for me. There is to much texts than pictures, and even it have pictures, they are not clearly.

    Speaking of Scott Eaton, i would like to ask, does any attend his course, The anatomy course and Zbrush Sculpting? Are they useful, with a lot of information and are they in real time?

     

  6. #5
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    Draw as much from life as possible. Nothing can beat that.
    If you really want to learn hard and fast, track down a figure
    drawing class, or get friends, family to pose for you.

    Even use yourself as model and just do as many studies
    as you can. Functional anatomy is important yes, but not
    as much as rendering believable forms and flexible poses.

    EDIT: Pretty much echoing a lot of what LightandDark said.

    Last edited by Star Eater; July 19th, 2012 at 08:12 AM.
     

  7. #6
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    Save up some money (birthday, Christmas, etc...) and get one of these. You'll be able to help yourself.


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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonika View Post
    To be honest i prefer mostly videos tutorials over the books, because books, dunno how to say , i don't mind to song like a whining, but seems to messy for me. There is to much texts than pictures, and even it have pictures, they are not clearly.
    Humanity is fucking doomed.


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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Humanity is fucking doomed.
    But Elwell, how does one use a book? I just set it near my table and I become better, right?

     

  10. #9
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    I've seen so many "I hate reading/words/books/learning" posts in here lately
    that I think I don't even notice anymore.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Murphy View Post
    But Elwell, how does one use a book? I just set it near my table and I become better, right?
    You put it under your pillow and when you wake up you have it all memorized, everyone knows that.

    Or you apply it directly to your forehead and in ten minutes you know kung fu. Right?

     

  12. #11
    I just was just looking for a help, and you guys started to trolling at me?

     

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonika View Post
    I just was just looking for a help, and you guys started to trolling at me?
    Relax, it's nothing personal. You need a thick skin for this business
    and these forums...

    But stating publicly amongst some very learned pro's (not me I'm a dumbass)
    that you don't like books is not the way to make a good impression here.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Humanity is fucking doomed.
    Some people have Dyslexia, doesn't mean they are less intelligent than any other person and doesn't mean that they hate literature , so while I do not have that problem myself, I do not haste in judging people for preferring a video version over a book.

    However when I compare Andrew Loomis's book: Figure Drawing for all its worth to Loomis figure drawing they both start about it in different ways and I think Loomis teaches stuff and elaborate on things in a way that Vilppu can't/doesn't and sitting down and practicing together with these is important.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    Some people have Dyslexia, doesn't mean they are less intelligent than any other person and doesn't mean that they hate literature , so while I do not have that problem myself, I do not haste in judging people for preferring a video version over a book.
    Preference shouldn't be avoidance. Don't make excuses before trying it at least.

    The other problem is if you're doing studies and trying to get better at anatomy, writing notes help.

     

  16. #15
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    If one were to say, "I'm dyslexic, so spoken or visual demonstrations are much easier for me than reading," or, "I'm not a native English speaker, and there aren't many art instruction books available in my language," nobody would have any problems, even if those things were written with grammar, spelling, or punctuation mistakes.

    But, after a steady stream of "hurr, durr, reading hard, how do I use book?" posts, forgive me if my default reaction is less charitable.


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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonika View Post
    To be honest i prefer mostly videos tutorials over the books, because books, dunno how to say , i don't mind to song like a whining, but seems to messy for me. There is to much texts than pictures, and even it have pictures, they are not clearly.
    FYI Loomis has an excellent book on life-drawing while his DVDs are quite mediocre (in my opinion).
    it's smw nice to see his process, but it really adds nothing to his text and illustrations, and doesn't magically teach you anything.
    plus, with book you can actually move on your own pace, and keep it around during life-drawing courses. it's also cheaper.

    all those mean people telling you it's life-drawing all the way are right, there're no shortcuts. books just give you better direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonika View Post
    I just was just looking for a help, and you guys started to trolling at me?
    not yet really, welcome 2 ca

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Humanity is fucking doomed.
    let's pray for Bonika's lost soul and be kinder to him/her.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Preference shouldn't be avoidance. Don't make excuses before trying it at least.

    The other problem is if you're doing studies and trying to get better at anatomy, writing notes help.
    I don't make excuses, I prefer the books personally.

    As for Dyslexia , I know its a real neurological condition because my dad has it and though he still reads, it takes him far longer than an average person would because the letters appear switched/jumbled to him.

     

  19. #18
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    Yeah yeah, alright we get the picture. Elwell stated the valid reason
    behind his response. Can we move on now?

     

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    FYI Loomis has an excellent book on life-drawing while his DVDs are quite mediocre (in my opinion).
    I assume you mean Vilppu?


    Tristan Elwell
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  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    I assume you mean Vilppu?
    I was a bit confused too.

     

  22. #21
    I'm afraid I don't know any video tutorials, but my advice for learning anatomy would be to draw from life and/or photographs. Since you want to create 3D character models, you should make sure you study the human figure from all different angles until you are confident enough to know how each muscle appears from different viewpoints. It sounds tedious, but really just looking at anatomy and drawing it over and over will ensure you get the improvement you want.

    My university lecturers encourage us to fill pages and pages in our sketchbooks of things we aren't good at drawing. Someone I know struggled to draw hands, so he filled about 20 pages just with sketches of hands, and now he has no trouble with them.

    Learning the entire human figure would be a much bigger commitment, but it's well worth doing. Hope this helps!

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    As for Dyslexia , I know its a real neurological condition because my dad has it and though he still reads, it takes him far longer than an average person would because the letters appear switched/jumbled to him.
    Great. I have friends that have it too, they still read even though it's difficult. On top of that one of my friends is Swedish reading and typing in English and he visits these forums. Yes life is not fair, people have it hard, and people handle it differently.

     

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star Eater View Post
    Yeah yeah, alright we get the picture. Elwell stated the valid reason
    behind his response. Can we move on now?
    Move on to what?
    The main question here has been answered, several times already.

    All that remains is some dismissive Books vs Video discussion so in that context I don't think I said anything invalid and I also think Elwell reasoning that people should flaunt their weakness just so people will show some kind of tolerance towards their personal preference is flawed.
    There. now we can move on.

     

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    Move on to what?
    The main question here has been answered, several times already.

    All that remains is some dismissive Books vs Video discussion so in that context I don't think I said anything invalid and I also think Elwell reasoning that people should flaunt their weakness just so people will show some kind of tolerance towards their personal preference is flawed.
    There. now we can move on.
    Now you're just being a dick.

    You saying that one should "flaunt" their weakness is not what Elwell stated nor is he putting forth that idea.

    He's saying on the net full of strangers who don't know what your ability or disability is - that you'll need to provide necessary information in case general advice doesn't fit your circumstance. This means people will take pause and understand your situation.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    Now you're just being a dick.

    You saying that one should "flaunt" their weakness is not what Elwell stated nor is he putting forth that idea.

    He's saying on the net full of strangers who don't know what your ability or disability is - that you'll need to provide necessary information in case general advice doesn't fit your circumstance. This means people will take pause and understand your situation.
    I didn't mean to sound like a dick, I may have one but I promise that I am not, I think Elwell is probably one of the good guys.

    All I'm saying is that if someone tells me he prefer video because books appear messy/unclear to him I'm not going to give him a hard time or judge him for that, maybe his mind is wired differently than mine...
    You can disagree with me and I know that many people come with your approach but I still think people should try to take pause and understand anyway if they care enough to say something about it.
    Or in TL;DR what Black spot said.

    Last edited by LightandDark; July 19th, 2012 at 03:40 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    All I'm saying is that if someone tells me he prefer video because books appear messy/unclear to him I'm not going to give him a hard time or judge him for that, maybe his mind is wired differently than mine...
    i would agree, if i wouldnt notice a certain notion in younger generations (mid twenties and lower) to disregard books as tedious, outdated, etc. im not saying everyone is like that, but as a general movement i think im pretty save saying that.

    i feel really lucky my grandpa managed to arouse a love for reading in me. i feel like id miss alot if he wouldnt have.

    i doubt id like to watch a video, or listen to an audio book of harold speeds practise and sience of drawing for example...

    in a video you easily fall for the trap of just trying to mimic what you see... in a book you have to figure it on your own to some extend.... harder? yes... but more rewarding all the way.

    [edit] there are good videos out there... and some things are more easily communicated in videos... but they aint the universal sollution for everything. some concepts are better communicated through writing and reading.
    e.g. ... i wouldnt spend a single minute on these forums if every post would be a video message instead of written text....

    Last edited by sone_one; July 19th, 2012 at 04:07 PM.
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  29. #28
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    Not to mention that I can read far faster than you can talk.


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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sone_one View Post
    i would agree, if i wouldnt notice a certain notion in younger generations (mid twenties and lower) to disregard books as tedious, outdated, etc. im not saying everyone is like that, but as a general movement i think im pretty save saying that.
    I will grant that there is some truth to what you say but then I can go on with what the young generation is exposed to culture-wise in general with increasingly unimaginative reality shows, badly stylized cartoons , computer games that sacrifice intellect for simplicity and better graphics or artists who BS their way into a museum display with minimalistic suicidal poorly illustrated stick figure drawings (or am I not sophisticated enough to "get it"? )

    But even though you see an amount of dumbing down across all media for every jersey shore culture you also have intelligent people who like to read ebooks on their posh iPad or write/read crappy fan-fiction and later write awesome novels or people who get exposed to LOTR thanks to seeing the movie and decide to read the books, at first to pretend they are sophisticated, and later to find that they actually like reading.
    (I read the books first so I thought the movie was disappointing but w/e)

    And then you also have Harry Potter and authors like Dan brown(which I consider poor literature) that keep people reading because they are popular.

    So despite what happens in some places I don't think all of the younger generation are as hopeless as you believe them to be, as they grow older, like us, some of them learn to appreciate the legacy of older generations and hate on what the future-future generation will deteriorate to
    in a video you easily fall for the trap of just trying to mimic what you see... in a book you have to figure it on your own to some extend.... harder? yes... but more rewarding all the way.
    I don't know about that, you can luck out and read a Christopher Hart book and be in the same trap + Vilppu in his videos stress as much that people should develop their own way and not copy what they see etc so it depends on who is the one teaching and how far they go about explaining their process.

    Last edited by LightandDark; July 19th, 2012 at 05:02 PM.
     

  31. #30
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    by reading some of your posts, i think we would actually agree, if it werent for the matter that i dont see any reason, to not tell anyone to f-ing go and bother with actually putting some energy into aquiring this knowledge.

    have you been to youtube and just put in the words zbrush and anatomy in there? seriously...

    what aggravates me is this attitude that everything is expected to be spoon-fed, predigested and 24/7 available, without any sort of effort.
    and exactly there i dont see your point advocating that for the possible reason of him beeing dyslexic... he can apparently handle written text on a forum...

    Last edited by sone_one; July 19th, 2012 at 06:09 PM.
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