Team Rocket so far
=(one more member once we have sorted all the themes and stuff out)
Join this team because heyyeahyehaheyhay
Last edited by Snafu; July 23rd, 2012 at 11:19 PM.
Oh man, I couldnt' wait. Snafu your art is absolutely stunnning! This is gonna rock!
Alright, brainstorming time.
Concept pitch #1: The secretkeeper, realm of secrets etc.
Erm, so I was thinking about the whole protecting/guarding business, and I thought, well, what would be worth protecting? I figured 'secrets' might be a good starting point. There's this land/realm/planet/place whatever where secrets are born. They are the inhabitants and creatures. And each secret, depending on how big, how trivial, how dangerous it is would reflect in its appearance. As in real life, some secrets can lead to the birth if other secrets, while some can lead to death of others. I imagine everything to be sort of organic (mechano-organic maybe? to some extent?), and whenever a secret gets revealed it would somehow be "set free". On the other hand, secrets die and fossilize (and consequently incorporate themselves into the landscape) when the original owner of the secret dies without revealing them (or something to that effect).
The main guardian of this place is the oldest (and first ever?) secret, and it basically watches over everything else. Physically I imagine this secret to be
more on the androgynous side, by itself not really revealing much about its nature.
Uh, so anyway, that's the first idea that came to mind. Some initial sketches of the potential guardian, I dunno. Was very much inspired by all these awesome electron micrographs. I imagine this world to be very colorful, very vivid, and full of textures. Also very heterogenous since you'd have both the good and bad sort of secrets.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
Last edited by Kahel; July 17th, 2012 at 05:49 PM.
Yeah, I love the concept of secrets relating to each creature, and mechano organic sounds good too, give this fantasy land a bit of machinery, gears etc. I'll come up with a sheet of concepts and inspiration we can start taking from. With the guardin, I like the idea of 'the oldest secret' so a huge aged titan would be brilliant, I'm getting forest spirit vibes (pprincess mononoke) here
Yeah I was definitely thinking Miyazaki somewhere along the line (Although I haven't seen Mononoke yet, but Spirited away will always be a favorite). By any chance have you seen Pan's Labyrinth? A bit dark, but the serious+fantasy setting for that really worked well, and I was somewhat inspired by that. Ah, and the second Hellboy movie had some pretty cool mechano-organic props/settings if I remember correctly.
There's this other Japanese artist who did a lot these pinups featuring girls with organic mecha gear, I just can't remember who... let me see if I can google it up somehow.
Sweet. haven't heard of her before, but these are pretty cool! Anyway since we're on the topic of creepy eerie fantasy, maybe you'd want to check out Justin Cherry's work (of you haven't already) http://http://www.iiiil0liiii.com/gallery
Alright, I think that's it for me tonight. I'll get some more sketches done tomorrow evening.
Hey guys, Thanks for including me on the team.
Kahel, I really like your idea. Very powerful imagery associated with your ideas. It's simple and it makes sense. I would be fine with developing a world based on this idea.
I do think that we might get into trouble with keeping things vague. I believe in keeping things pretty clear and straight forward in order to tell the story. Like the older these guardians get it becomes harder and harder to keep the secret. It's kinda like when people get older and older the lines on there face reveal how they lived there lives, unhappy or full of joy. For your proposed eldest guardian, I think it should be pretty clear about what kind of secret he, she, animal, bot, whatever it is, has been hiding. This is so when the time comes to portray the character alone then it should be pretty clear they are hiding something.
If you guys don't mind I think we should all take a shot at every item. This is if you guys want to do this idea. I know its the first idea but i think its really good.
I'm up for every item, I definitely need some experience in character sheets
The secrets theme is perfect, in terms of making worlds,what are we most comfortable with, I think once we get a set world, then it'll be easier to draw the creatures and characters etc.
I'm honestly okay with anything; traditional fantasy, dark fantasy, organic mechanical, steam punk etc.
In terms of the eldest guardian, I love idea of the secret being harder to keep, i'll start sketching up some ideas on that
@guile and kahel, what world would we be most comfortable with?
ps, //thanks for joining up!
I think we should pick a couple themes at first just to see if we like it or not. I like the organic mechanical because I think it fits better with this idea. It fits because in order for these elder guardians to keep on living they must have assistance keeping these secrets. Like i said before lets keep it simple though. The mechanical aspect should follow the design of helping them keep a secret. I think this is the only way to make this theme work. Lets not just throw random mechanical things everywhere. Lets make it have a purpose. Snafu, it sounds like we agree on the secrets theme, lets wait for Kahel. I feel bad he hasn't read this stuff yet. Are you guys in the UK?
Yeah I'm in the UK and Kahel is in Germany
But my usual active times are between 6pm to 3am GMT, I'm pretty flexible with time though
I agree with simplicity, I loved the idea of secrets being slowly revealed as the creatures get older, and you wanted the idea of the secret relating to the creature
The simplest solution I can think of would be;
-The larger the secret, the larger the creature
-Each creature has a mechanical core which 'stores' this secret, over the creatures lifespan, the core gets stronger and stronger
-This core is a 'light'. For example in Iron Man, Tony starrk has the chest thing. But for our creatures, the more they age, the more the light underneath shines through, revealing markings under the skin (like secret codes that come out through blue light).
In terms of the back story, here's my idea:
This is a distant lush planet, jungles, waterfalls. Thousands of years ago the planets human/alien inhabitants were at war, each race didn't want it's secrets stolen so they kept the safe inside the 'creatures'. Eventually the races wiped eachother out and now, the overgrown planet, filled with dying mechano/organic ruins and creatures, has just been discovered by space explorers via orbital refineries/planet crackers.
-This could give us room to do all the topics from industrial designs (the ships, the old race architecture). panels (the story of the old race/discovery), the creatures, old inhabitants, guardians etc.
Anyway what do you guys thing, I also did a quick sketch of a dying creature, it's really rough but hope it can get across the idea
Now it's Kahel's turn for the input ., then we'll move on
Okay, I like it. I still think the light core is a little vague.
I was thinking along the lines of say, if a creature had a secret about something it saw then it would have some type of mechanical device over its eyes. But what i was having trouble with is how would we make it clear that a creature was keeping a secret about being a traitor during the war? We should still keep the light core but I don't think it solves our problem about making these secrets "readable"
It reminds me of Shadow of the colossus. Especially the light core. We could probably use that game as reference too.
I like the back story, I think we should go with it.
The sketch looks great! Love the light. I didn't realize it was a dying creature. Maybe that's what we need though, theses creatures are probably really abstract, I don't know just thinking. Love it man, great work!
Hey guys, sorry for missing the updates last night, had a work presentation to take care of.
First off, hello guilefine and welcome to the team!
A couple of things, guilefine, your idea of secrets getting harder to reveal as they age actually makes sense in a way, since usually that's what happens most of the time. I was thinking about this idea of creature "evolution" yesterday and I suppose that could fit into this phenomenon. However, I think this need not be the case for all secrets because it's also just as likely for secrets to be forgotten, which is what I'd imagine the first guardian secret to be. If it were the first secret, the secret being that there is a place/island/planet of secrets (say for example, the secret of the mastermind who created the place), I'd imagine if would fit the creator's purpose for this first secret ever to be successfully kept. The question now is if we decide to stick with the premise that secret owners who die with their secrets in parallel kill and fossilize their secrets as well. If that were the case, what would happen would either be that the original secret owner is still alive somehow, or that he died but since he/she was the creator, the first secret/guardian becomes an exception to the rule and is somehow immortalized.
Second, Snafu, I think I get the point of each secret having an inner light because then we'd have a way of "marking" all creatures/characters as inhabitants of this land. Because if we think about it, we're talking a great deal of diversity here, and somehow we need to keep things such that one look and anyone can easily say that they're secretland citizens. An inner light, a special appendage, body part, markings, manner of movement, anything really, that has to be common to all, at least in part... I think this makes a lot of sense. I'm hoping for the final later we can manage to come up with more than one creature secret because the concept is so rich with diversity it would be a shame to just have one example for the final. We can have one tiny, short-lived, flying secret, a huge, dangerous secret, a secret involving many people etc. Also, I love that first sketch, great mood. I think we need to incorporate more atypical silhouettes, since anyway nothing about this place is so to say, conventional.
Another idea maybe. I was actually thinking in terms of panels/storyboards when I initially thought of the concept, and I was wondering if you guys would be interested in a plot of some sort. Like, for example, everything is all fine and dandy in secretland, when all of a sudden a very important secret is conceived. I imagine there'd two storylines running in parallel, one in real life and one in secretland (I keep using secretland but we can change the name later to something more eloquent), say a politician, king, reigious leader, or any major world figurehead decides to do do something that'll be of great impact to the rest of the world (e.g., nuclear bombing or whatever), and in secretland, some lesser secret finds this infant secret and rushes off to the guardian to inform him that this one feels "different". That's the starting point. Conflict would be how secretland fends against external forces trying to reveal this secret (can be shown in the parallel real life storyline), and the secret itself being dangerous to others and secretland. Major adventure of our protagonist guardian and a band of a handful of secrets, potential fight scene, some die, etc etc., the dangerous secret evolves in the duration of the story (again, shown in parallel to the real life storyline), and in the end either this secret gets revealed, dies, or turns into something more tame and harmless. And either all is well again in secretland or secretland gets destroyed but with one or a handful of survivors who start a new secretland somewhere. Hm. I could probably explain this whole plot better in panels but I didn't have the time last night so you get a big wall of text. Sorry about that. What do you guys think of it though?
What else, what else... ah, yes, something about the mechanical bit. Actually at first I wasn't sure how this was going to fit since everything somehow screams organic to me and I thought we just needed something mechanical for the industrial design part, but I have to admit thanks to you guys brainstorming over this, the idea now seems more solid. Awesome! Another idea would be to treat this secretland as its own civilazation. You know, first being simple, everything organic, lacking proper stuctured form, and then as civilizations progressed in real life, people conceive secrets with more and more complexity. Someone is developing a weapon, someone is developing a new version of ipad, someone is designing a new hybrid vehicle etc. These are definitely more modern secrets compared to say, 50 years ago, and this would reflect on how the creatures look like. You'd then have a mixture of organinc, mechanical, and mechano-organic secrets. And this way also I guess somehow you can tell the age of the secrets, no? Or at least have an idea to which era they belong.
Alright, that was long. Let me know what you guys think. I'm usually online between 19:00-00:00 UTC+1 and early in the morning for a few minutes. CA.org is blocked at work so I can't check anything until after I get home.
Last edited by Kahel; July 19th, 2012 at 01:32 AM.
Also, thanks for diving into this world pretty deep man Jesus, I just think things need to stay simple for the sake of imagery. For example, our main character/creature is the guardian of the very first secret, who has forgotten the secret. Obviously this would be the perfect guardian of secrets. This isn't just any secret, it's the secret of creation and the guardian has forgotten it.
For me this is not an interesting character to depict because I can't see how we could make this back story clear in an image. How can we show that our main character has forgotten a secret? I can't see someone looking at this character and picking all that information up. We need to simplify the back story so we can make it easier on us and the viewers to understand.
I think Snafu has a good idea about showing "secrets" as a light. I think these secrets should just be secrets of the universe. We can show this as symbols and glowing stuff. Kahel, I also like that each secret, depending on how big, how trivial, how dangerous it is would reflect in its appearance. Maybe we can group secrets as emotions. This might be easier to show in an image.
Kahel, you are right we should have a plot element. This too should be really simple because I don't think the viewer will understand our story so far without us telling them about it. We need to "tell" them with images. I see us making more than the required images but I also see us killing ourselves to include everything into these images.
I like Snafus story just because it seems easier to accurately depict. Maybe these giants are trying to avoid their secrets of the universe being stolen by the explorers.
Kahel, your story is really epic and awesome. I think it might just be too complex to translate into a handful of images. I can totally see it as a movie.
These are my thoughts, just letting you guys know how I feel. Maybe i just need to "see" what you guys are thinking and I need to start showing you what I am thinking.
Yeah I realize it's a bit ambitious, and I can totally see where you're coming from. I think there's just so much potential in the conccept that I'm getting a little carried away. :p
Alright then, let's set some realistic and conceivable goals within our time frame.
Creatures: I think at this point we all agree about the light part. Shall we make it our unifying characteristic then? We also all agree on diversity. I think we ought to start sketching down some ideas, because for the most part, it looks like anything goes in terms of appearance just as long as they can somehow be identified as secrets.
Guardian: Somehow I still think there needs to be a connection between our protagonist and secretland itself. He is the guardian after all, that means by definition he's protecting it, and there needs to be a motive/ rationale besides "we live here" because that kind of applies to everyone else. We need to think about what makes this guy special besides seniority, so we can factor it into the design. Suggestions? Right now still the simplest thing I can think of is that he is secretland, that secret iself. Physically I'd imagine his appearance to be all sorts of strange because of that, but again, as with the creatures, this is something better seen with images than text. But yeah, I agree that if we can keep it simple, that would be better of course.
Setting/ environments: I think somehow we're all on the same page in this one, no?
Panels: Yeah, when I was thinking of that plot I wrote earlier, I admit I was definitely imagining it as animated film. :p I think having a plot for panels is just a backup though, I mean, lower down on our final pieces priority list since we already have quite a handful without it. I can imagine a shorter dialogue-less plot though, kind of like a day in the life of our protagonist where it'll all be moods and character interactions. But yeah, that's for later, if at all.
Alright, 'nuff talking. Time to draw The next guy who posts without a picture owes the other two a round of drinks. :p
Hey Mark you owe us all a beer.
Um... ok. Since we haven't really decided what the nature of our guardian is, I'm just non-specifically throwing in a bunch of ideas. I myself am not really sure how I envision the character yet, but for some reason, I can't shake off the image of No Face from Spirited Away. I mean look at him, to me he just screams mystery and secrets. Mysterious secret. Haha. I dunno, I'm still gravitating towards the idea of a non-revealing face (hence the long hair, which I think can work well in conveying mood in the absence of a face), but maybe I just don't have a better picture in my head. I put in a couple of pregnant female silhouettes as ideas for if our guardian's secret is secretland itself, I figured in that case she's somehow the mother to all secrets. But yeah, so far that's not really a completely formed concept yet. I kind of like the keyhole though, I think it could work, especially for the mechanical bits.
And as before, more electron micrographs. Sometimes I see these things and imagine them as environments already. Like the first one on the lower left corner, it looks like it may just as well be a cliff, no?
Still need to come up with some creatures. I have this vague idea of a surprise birthday party creature with a party hat haha. And maybe a fleshy, slick, affair creature with naughty bits. Heh.
Alright guys, your turn.
Thanks Mark, I appreciate the comment and i really appreciate that you want to buy us all a round
I'm so tired so short and simple.
Kahel, love the idea of using the electron micro graphs as environment ref, lets do it. I like your sketch too but honestly lets just try to flesh out as many ideas as possible. lets just keep them coming. Maybe we can give our selves a deadline.
I liked your pregnant mother idea so i did this. I tried to go with more of a fertility goddess. I don't think it will work or at least what i did. Um but for the light i was thinking it would have symbols in it floating and stuff. Regardless I have a better idea that i will get on here soon.
Yep. And following your train of thought... a couple more.
Also, a deadline sounds good. I just realized that I might be out of the country on the finals weekend, so I'm really hoping to finish my contributions before then.
cool stuff guys, heres another sketch, a bit more traditional I guess
I really like the 'mother guardian' type theme there guile and also the coral and micrograph things are a cool idea for the environment too, they have a kinda mystical /haunting charm to them which is type of atmosphere and feeling we waant in a secret world
and yeah it's hard to shake of no face or really the whole spirit world in spirted away, it justs fit sooo well with this theme, the shades of spirited away like the ones on the train could be great for beings holding secrets, over time they slowly dissappear?
some spirited away stuff
Last edited by Snafu; July 24th, 2012 at 01:12 PM.
I really like the sense of scale in that sketch, and I think it helps reinforce the otherworldly feel we're going for.
As for the secrets, slowly fading or say, slowly unraveling (maybe we can toy around here with the mech part), you know, like when they're in risk of being revealed, then technically they won't be secrets anymore.
No proper sketches from me today, sorry. But I did slap on some quick and cheap photoshop edits to a couple more SEM pictures. First one's of some skin disease and the second is of seal fur.
A few more which I liked. Counter clockwise from top> some fish skin(?)- looks like a cave, intestinal lining- thought about having a flying manta-ray like creature secret for our protagonist, and maybe they're flying over canyons like these, and bone- more caves/ canyons...
Caterpillar hairs - funny trees
Cuttlefish bone - more caves, or maybe some ancient ruins?
Kidney something... just because it looks trippy Maybe tree roots of a previously living tree-like secret, I dunno.
And some real photos of... frozen trees I think, that I just stumbled across this morning
Last edited by Kahel; July 24th, 2012 at 05:14 PM.
Nice, keep 'em coming. Speaking of cities, if we decide to go for industrial design, maybe we can do something that "generates" secrets? I dunno, like the secret oven or something. Somewhere in the heart of the planet/island/realm? At the moment I can't really think of anything else besides weapons and for some reason I have a a bit of difficulty imagining a weapon for our protagonist. Thoughts?
And also, what's our consensus on creatures? I was thinking there needs to be some sort of obvious indication that these guys are secrets, like you know, a keyhole, or, like one of those life/timer bars floating above them (maybe projected by the "inner core mechanism"?) to give the impression that all of them are at risk of being revealed at any time. Or maybe an hourglass even, like an appendage that doesn't necessarily look the same for all creatures (like how wings and tails are different morphologically but same functionally). What do you guys think? I'll try to sketch it up tomorrow. In the meantime, some random creature.
A few more silhouettes. I thought that maybe if our guardian's secret is secretland itself, then somehow it would have design elements that mirror the homeland's appearance to some extent.
Hey, I didn't want you guys to think I was ignoring this. I'm getting married soon so things got crazy last week. Love the work and ideas. I will post soon
Hey it's cool, and that's great news! Congratulations!
I like the key hole so did something with it
Also i like the idea that the guardian is part of the city. Also that it generates secrets.
I am really liking these, especially those birds(?) flying off the guardian, very Dave McKean. I love the scale on the second sketch, but I think maybe we should separate the "secret generator" from the guardian because then we could take this generator as our industrial design. Kind of like in Disney's Treasure Planet, where the teleport mechanism was at the core of the planet and we can do the same for this, like our planet/island/realm's "womb" so to speak. This could be the starting point for all secrets. We can have an illustration showing how secrets emerge from this generator and already we show how some secrets don't even make it out too far without dying/getting revealed. What do you guys think?
Also, while I'm honestly not sure if we can manage to include panels in our submission, I'd like to give it a shot. I'm attaching some thumbnails sketched a while back (sorry for the crappy handwriting, was in a bit of a hurry). It doesn't have a proper story yet but anyway the challenge only requires a few pages so maybe we can figure something out. I'm not such an eloquent writer (notice all the etcs and ellipses hehe) so later I asked a friend if she can help out and she gave me this really nice introduction:
Most of us started off as whispers. From every corner of the world, we rose; summoned into existence as people breathed in a lie and breathed out silence.
What we are is simple enough to identify - we are secrets, born of mystery and shadow, and created to be hidden. We are protected by The Guardian, who is said to be the first secret ever created. It was said that he, unlike us, didn't come from a whisper, but merely a thought. A thought so powerful that it can create worlds.
Our form is determined by what we hide - the bigger the secret, the bigger we are.
The Guardian gathers and protects us, keeping us in a place that can't be found by normal human beings. This is where we stay, waiting, and drifting silently.
I wanted to make some thumbs for this before posting but I didn't have much time today and I've only managed to come up with a few frames. But anyway I figured I'd just post it now so I can go ahead and ask what's the team's opinion about doing panels in general.
Last edited by Kahel; July 31st, 2012 at 01:18 AM.
I think my monitor's too bright. I don't know what I'm doing haha.
In other news, hey team, what's up? Maybe we should start making decisions. Otherwise I'll probably end up making bad ones. Like coloring everything in pink...