How do you establish a ground plane? And then place things on it?

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    How do you establish a ground plane? And then place things on it?

    Long story very short, I'm having a difficult time conceptualizing how to do this.

    I know how to place objects in an image, and make it appear as though one is in front of the other, but I don't know how to get them on the same floor space.

    I can guess at it and get something that looks right (to me), but I'm supposing there's a more technically correct way to establish it. If anyone could help with this, I'd appreciate it. It's a real head-scratcher for me and I can't find anything on this subject specifically...

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    perspective helps with this idea. Once you have established a horizon line then you can place vanishing points and draw anything relative to a ground plane.

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    I understand the basic concepts of horizon lines and vanishing points, but I'm not sure of how to carry a three dimensional plane through that space and draw things relative to it. I'm not sure what factor determines whether an object is placed on one plane versus another.

    Of course, it's obvious that objects aren't on the same plane if one is placed below sea level and the other's way above the horizon line in outer space somewhere-- but when objects are closer together, it's difficult for me to tell whether they're sharing the same floor space or if one of them is floating a few inches off the ground.

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    so you're basically wondering how to draw a cube in the air, and another 3D shape right next to it?

    If that's not what you're wondering, I'm sorry but I'm a tad confused about what you WOULD like to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snacks ex machina View Post
    I understand the basic concepts of horizon lines and vanishing points, but I'm not sure of how to carry a three dimensional plane through that space and draw things relative to it. I'm not sure what factor determines whether an object is placed on one plane versus another.

    Of course, it's obvious that objects aren't on the same plane if one is placed below sea level and the other's way above the horizon line in outer space somewhere-- but when objects are closer together, it's difficult for me to tell whether they're sharing the same floor space or if one of them is floating a few inches off the ground.
    Then you don't understand rudimentary perspective because that is what perspective is for. So get a book like the Norling book or go to the handprint site and learn it.

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    Once you place one object on a plane, you can use the bottom of that object as a guide to establish the bottom of other objects sitting on that plane. Or you can just draw a grid in perspective on the ground plane and use that as a guide for placing things.

    Maybe first try drawing a grid in perspective, and once you get the hang of that, try extending boxes of different heights up out of the grid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitnrun View Post
    so you're basically wondering how to draw a cube in the air, and another 3D shape right next to it?

    If that's not what you're wondering, I'm sorry but I'm a tad confused about what you WOULD like to know.
    Not necessarily right next to it, but on the same ground plane. For instance,
    if someone were to draw a two story house, they might place furniture in both the top and bottom floors of the house. If they were to do this, how would they make it so that all of the furniture on the top floor appears to be exactly on the top floor, and all the furniture on the bottom floor appears to be exactly on the bottom floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Then you don't understand rudimentary perspective because that is what perspective is for. So get a book like the Norling book or go to the handprint site and learn it.
    Yeahp, like I said, I understand individual concepts like vanishing points and horizon, but I don't understand this. I'm currently working with the Perspective Drawing Handbook by Joseph D'Amelio and the tutorials at automotiveillustrations.com. If you have an opinion on it, do you think the Norling book would be a better bet than the D'Amelio? I always hear that one mentioned, never D'Amelio, but I still feel like I'm learning a lot by reading him.

    Thanks for the links.

    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Once you place one object on a plane, you can use the bottom of that object as a guide to establish the bottom of other objects sitting on that plane. Or you can just draw a grid in perspective on the ground plane and use that as a guide for placing things.

    Maybe first try drawing a grid in perspective, and once you get the hang of that, try extending boxes of different heights up out of the grid.
    I'm not totally sure I understand, but it makes sense in a really nebulous way? I'll try and do that for a while, then and thanks for the suggestion.

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    What you're asking is this: how to work with "plans" and "elevations."

    The Horizon Line in your drawing fixes the height of your eyeball above the Ground Plane. Using this fact, you can project measurements from an Elevation to a height measuring line to locate precisely how tall your objects are.

    Using a Plan-- essentially an aerial map of the footprints of your objects-- you can project from the Station Point the location of where the points outlining these footprints intersect the Picture Plane.

    D'Amelio shows a Plan layout on page 30. And, the entirety of Chapter 10 is all about relating heights to your Horizon Line. Then, on page 72, he shows you how to place objects inside of rooms.

    But, make sure you understand all the earlier fundamental stuff! And, Norling's a very good supplement to D'Amelio.

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    Yeah, seriously, you so don't understand perspective. This is the sort of thing that's so basic that most people are going to have a very hard time explaining it, simply because most people understand it without it having to be explained. Get the Norling book, it's the simplest explanation of perspective out there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    What you're asking is this: how to work with "plans" and "elevations."

    The Horizon Line in your drawing fixes the height of your eyeball above the Ground Plane. Using this fact, you can project measurements from an Elevation to a height measuring line to locate precisely how tall your objects are.

    Using a Plan-- essentially an aerial map of the footprints of your objects-- you can project from the Station Point the location of where the points outlining these footprints intersect the Picture Plane.

    D'Amelio shows a Plan layout on page 30. And, the entirety of Chapter 10 is all about relating heights to your Horizon Line. Then, on page 72, he shows you how to place objects inside of rooms.

    But, make sure you understand all the earlier fundamental stuff! And, Norling's a very good supplement to D'Amelio.
    Thank you so much! The stuff starting on page 72 was exactly what I was talking about. I got lost on page 30, wondering how he would put things on the same elevation, and then I wasn't able to focus on anything else all the way up until page 60 because I was too distracted by this question. I started flipping through the book, looking for the answer and didn't didn't see that explanation hiding in there. I feel so lame for missing that. Thank you so much!

    So like QueenGwenevere said, grids, essentially.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Yeah, seriously, you so don't understand perspective. This is the sort of thing that's so basic that most people are going to have a very hard time explaining it, simply because most people understand it without it having to be explained. Get the Norling book, it's the simplest explanation of perspective out there.
    Mayday, mayday, self esteem descent path critical. But guess the consensus is to spend some time with Norling. I found it at a library nearby, so its just a matter of acquisition. I'm glad to know everyone likes him.

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    A lot of perspective theory seemed hard wrap my head around until I started supplementing the reading with lots of rough sketches. So I'd have a pad next to me and test the idea and play with it a little, which helped internalize the concept much more.

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    Here is the thing to remember, all theory is based on observable phenomena. People looked at something and wondered why it was so. It is either observed and a working model is described, or it is theorized and until it is observed it isn't valid. Take a theory and go and shoot some photos or draw from life and see if the theory works with your observation. All this should be a help to drawing accurately not a hindrance.

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