Landscape crit pleasee

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    Landscape crit pleasee

    Hi folks,

    These two paintings are from reference screen caps of WoW. I think that they're as accurate to the screen caps as I'm interested in getting. I'd like feedback on how to make them stronger works; I'm not concerned with how close they are to their references. Pretend they're concept work, I guess, or from imagination.

    Thanks muchly,
    Kevin

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  3. #2
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    Warcraft is a stylised game environment and doesn't really reflect reality, so you would be better studying real world stuff and practicing from there mate. If you cant get out then study photos and old masters paintings and such. Anything but Warcraft mate that will lead you astray.

    all the best matey.

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook
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    Old master paintings? While some are great, honestly what would be very helpful is for you to go outside, look at nature as a whole. See hills, trees, maybe even snowy mountains though it really depends on where you live. Draw nature, see how light interacts with the environment. Perspective, atmospheric depth...Warcraft doesn't have a lot of that. What is a rendering system to real life, eh? ^_^

    And if you want to draw something and don't have access to it in life, draw from photographs. Look at videos.

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    Haha, I appreciate the concern but I didn't choose to paint from that world for a lack of real-life reference. You're certainly right that I'd be getting better faster by working more from real life. Obviously, that's important to me, but what I want right now is just to focus on these paintings and how they could be improved. Thanks for the replies though!

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    Sorry to be a broken record, but yes—do studies. Copy stuff. Real life is awesome, master paintings (old or new) are at least as good, and photos are perfectly acceptable (as long as you find good ones). OK, I understand, you want to fix these paintings, but it's the same answer really: you need reference. Real life, master paintings, photos . . . Google Images is your friend.

    So for the first painting you'll need to figure out what the heck time of day it is, and find reference for the lighting; decide what sort of rocks are appropriate, and get a bunch of reference for those; decide what sort of grass, trees, and shrubbery should be here, and find ref for those; some ref for the road; and some for the ruined Greek-ish architecture. Then just start painting, and find more reference if you run into something you don't know how to paint.

    The second painting looks a lot more promising than the first. The perspective is roughly there and the composition/value arrangement could turn out quite nicely. Get a ton of reference for the moon-lighting, snowy rocks, trees, etc, and there's no reason why you can't pull this off. Study perspective if you don't know it. Get a solid horizon line and vanishing points and make sure everything's rock-solid in that department.

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    If you turn them grayscale I'll bet you'll see one way they could be improved.

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

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    Thanks everyone!

    @Corlan:
    You're right, I should be pulling in more reference. I hadn't done that at all, and that's probably a big problem.
    RE: working out the perspective - I've done a lot of work with perspective and I understand it very well for relatively simple geometric objects, but I have no experience applying it to big amorphous blobs of landscape like this. Could you pick out what looks wonky with my perspective, so I know how better to think about these things? I wonder.. is it the way the path curves up between the hills over the horizon line? The path goes up from ground level quite a ways, but maybe it's reading like wonky flat ground right now.

    @vineris:
    Thanks I think that's a really good idea. Just did that quickly and the values look pretty funky on the first one especially. The grass gets way too bright in the foreground, relative to the sky/moon. I'm going to do a paint-over when I get a chance and try to plan it out better.

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    That is what studing from Life and from Masters teaches you, that is why they suggested it. frankly you will work yourself to death beating dead horses, they are not going to rise up and carry you away even after 1000 lashes.
    I hate to be harsh, but if learning how to do things by yourself is to hard, drawing/painting is not your thing. What we want you to see is why you faild and how to avoid further doing so, not to carry you across a finish line, in a race you should not be in. learn to walk, then to run, then you can race across the line in a self assured victory.
    I understand your frustratsions! here is my first two WIP/ CRits, Notice I didnt finish them, notice I still have yet to be triumphant over these. I worked Countless hours following peoples advice on how to work these pieces, but truth is I was never able to do them, not yet anyway, I lack the foundations on which they need to be built.
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231353
    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218361
    I hope my lessons I learned helps, and if you are still not happy with the first two crits, then Noone here can help you.

    When I started out I was thinking why wont people tell me what I need to know now, why must I have to learn these on my own! well If I would have been listneing they were telling me the whole time. Telling work from real life, learn from the masters, if I would have just beleaved them 10 years ago I would not be Manageing dock hands, at a rinky dink farm store in BFE.

    Last edited by Stryno; July 8th, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
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    @Stryno:
    To reiterate, not asking for life advice, just asking for a crit. If you don't know how to give a crit, check out the kind of advice people were posting on your first two crits.

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    Your colors blend together, there is no contrast to your work, find a point of interest and focus the viewer to that point. The Foreground Background and middle of the landscape all blend as one flat plane, I can see no attempt at environmental perspective at all.
    Forms cannot be derived in a solid state unless lighting befalls with shadow, I see no dynamic lighting just illumination. With that regard the second work is better but still not convincing enough.
    I fail to see an understanding in either work that lends me to believe that you have an understanding of basic composition that is why I advise you to Study the works of the masters, and study from life. Those great critiques I had received were because the artist could see I had an understanding of the fundamentals you seem to lack, that you seem to refuse to accept. I am sorry I gave you Life Advice when you came here for a critique, but here at CA, life advice is art advice. If you did not see the first two crits as such that is because they didn’t give you the full critique, trying to spare you the "You lack fundamentals and your art shows it" critique. If you were to get that speech say from a collage professor it would go more like this
    "The Colors blend together in a tapestry of drab dismay. Lighting does not exist in the artist palate. Fundamentals passed down from the generations before are lost in these works. Only through the studious reverence of the Masters that have come before can this, this "art", be rescued from the abyss of mediocrity from that which they have spawned. The art represented here seems to reject the very notion that fundamental laws rule over the natural state of existence. Countless lives devoted to scientific study and millions of souls bent on emotional human consciousness portrayed on canvas have been in vain. If this is what art has brought then let my eyes be plucked from my face, and my hart pulled from my chest."
    Is this the more artistic critique you were looking for. Because that above is a Critique in its truest form. Personaly I think the, study more from life, good luck. Approach is much easier. But you laughed at that..

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  12. #11
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    Dear Stryno,
    Don't be a jerk. There are some valid critiques in your lump of mean text. Thanks for those. But stop making personal attacks, since you know nothing about me other than that I painted those two things.


    I did a quick paint-over of the one I am less happy with, working on values. I plan on pushing this farther later, making the sky darker and bringing more sky-light onto the upwards-facing surfaces on the ground. I also want to pull the hue contrast up between the foreground and mid-ground hills (needs more depth). Don't have a ton of time now but I just wanted to show the direction I'm going.

    I'll also probably muss the composition around as was sort of suggested by Stryno. It's important to me that these portray the places in WoW, so I can't change the landscape much, but I'll push and pull stuff around and try to make it more interesting.

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    Guys I would remind you both of the following!

    Personal attacks are unnecessary in this forum, and just in case you missed the instruction under the W.I.P. section tag in the forum list, its as simple as this:-

    "A forum for constructive criticism regarding artworks. No fighting! Be Honest, helpful, straight-up, and true!"

    If that doesn't sink in then follow this link to "JeffX99's" brilliant sticky on critique and getting the most out of it.

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219000

    AS to the artwork above I do not know why the Warcraft environments mean so much to you but hey! if that's what you are into then fine draw them. But in my opinion you still need some study hours on:-
    perspective.
    Textures.
    Depth.
    Values.
    If you work on these things for starters you will see your work improve and be more satisfied with your end results.

    What are your long term goals? are you doing this for a hobby or do you want to do game environment concept art for a career?

    I am just asking as I am at a bit of a loss on how to help you, as the critique hasn't been that harsh yet and i wouldn't want to put you off or trample your dreams.
    But I will if I need to give a wake up call and yes I have had more than a few of those myself, agents, editors and publishers are a lot more unforgiving and harsh than anyone in here!! LOL

    all the best to you with your art.

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook
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  14. #13
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    Yeah, I'd figure out what the recognizable features of the location are. You should still have quite a bit of creative freedom. You may have just chosen a weird and difficult viewpoint for this one.

    Here's some reference/inspiration for you:

    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee
    Landscape crit pleasee

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    @Corlan:
    Thanks, I'm going to hash out some different compositions and find something more promising.

    @Lightship:
    I may have overreacted. Looking back I don't really see any personal attacks, I think I just read a lot of aggression (directed at me and not my art) into Stryno's post.

    I appreciate critiques that tell me how to get better in the future, so long as they actually pertain to the work at hand. "Study the old masters," isn't actually helpful advice once you've heard it enough times to know it's a good idea. "Study some hours on perspective, texture, depth, and values" is significantly more helpful, since it actually gives me some direction.

    As to background on where I want to take myself as an artist:
    I wouldn't say it's just a hobby, although it's not a primary part of my career plan. Honestly, my goal is to constantly get better and it's as simple as that. I want to make beautiful things. I understand that the spirit of the "study the old masters" stuff is in the interest of me getting better. It also assumes that I've spent almost no time with art, and therefore haven't done that / haven't been doing that / am not aware that that's a good idea. It also just flat out is not a critique of the artwork. It's as intelligible and helpful a criticism as saying, "I don't like this," or, "this is bad."

    I am SO okay with harsh critique, as long as the harshness is directed at my artwork, and the result is that I understand better what the problems are with it. I am not unfamiliar to long, harsh critiques. I spent a year in art school and I've seen students cry during critiques more than once.

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    My two bob's worth.

    Copying old master paintings is a particular process people go through to learn how the old masters created their paintings. How they solved their particular problems and how they worked the paint. It's not really going to teach you much about painting a believable landscape.

    I cant really give you any constructive criticism on how to improve the two paintings you posted, including the edited version of the first one, because they're not at a stage where you can fix them. What I would do is leave them as they are, mark them up as part of a learning process, and move on to other paintings, applying what people here told you about atmospheric perspective, pointed perspective, colour and light etc. That way, you'll be moving forward and learning while you go rather than getting bogged down in one or two unsuccessful pieces.

    Keep learning and practising and you'll get there. Good luck!

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    Candra,
    Thanks, you might be right that these paintings are something I should move on from. I'm futzing around with the one a bit because I feel like I can glean something from the process. I'll probably not finish it, and move on to something else soon.


    Here's another paint-over... I'm trying to get the time of day clear, get a better composition, make the lighting make more sense, and add atmospheric perspective. In the process I've pretty much ignored the materials everything's made out of, and am just acting like its a big blob of sculpted clay or something. I think I'm getting a better feel for how to work with perspective in landscapes, but I'm not taking the time to draw guides or anything because that's not what I'm focusing on.

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  19. #17
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    Hi guys

    Ok I feel the need to defend Mr constable and Mr Turner! LOL.
    what I meant by "study the old masters" is look at how the paintings are constructed from the point of view of perspective, composition and lighting etc. The problems they faced and solved are the same ones you come across in your digital art. You still have to daub paint on something and fool the eye into believing that its clouds, trees and grass etc. I personally have learned a hell of a lot from looking at these things and I honestly think that I have barely scratched the surface.
    Fooling the eye into seeing depth in an environment study/ image is something I still have trouble with just check out my sketchbook and look at the mountain study its totally lacking in atmosphere, but I also took something away from it whilst creating it so although its a failure I learned from it.
    If as you say you are just trying to please yourself and create lovely things from your minds eye then you are definitely in the right place in this forum and I would say look at the following link for "Dpaint's" work for some inspiration and of course my mate "JeffX99" some of the plein air stuff they create is beyond me!

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177729 = Dpaint's stuff

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=177689 = JeffX99's stuff
    even by looking at the work these guys have put together (neither would compare themselves to turner or constable) you can learn a hell of alot about texture and light etc.

    If you are interested I can put more links up for you to look through that may light the fires of your imagination.

    all the best with your art matey.

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



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  21. #18
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    I was not trying to attack you personaly, I didnt mean to even seam aggressive, I was maybe over zelious in my attempt to save you from yourself, which as always is a foolish endevor. I am glade you are going on to the next works, I think if you worked on these for the amount of time it would have taken you, you would dispare and loose any progress that could have been gain from this exersize.
    I am sure that people here at CA can sympathize with my crazed plight, and I hope everyone realizes I was being truly sincere in my aggression, and was not meaning to be mean, hateful , or belittling on purpose.

    Sketchbook-Stryno's Thoughts
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    "I play Guitar because I like music, I draw because I have to."
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