"No skill required for digital art"

Join 500,000+ artists on ConceptArt.Org.

Its' free and it takes less than 10 seconds!

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Angry "No skill required for digital art"

    I need to vent. I get so pissed off when I get that crap. I just got it again from Mrs. Oil-paintings who thinks she knows the value of digital art when she's never tried it.
    You will never hear me slam any technique, be it Photoshop or Poser or oils or etchings or pissing stick people into the snow. Well, maybe I might slam the latter. But you get the point.

    She says it's her "opinion", but don't facts override personal POV? I mean, if the facts-and-numbers WHO and BMI both say I'm fat, what good is it that some idealist says I'm not? And isn't it a fact that Photoshop will not correctly place folds for you, or tell you were to drop the shadow from your tree? Isn't it a fact that if you don't know how to get 5 fingers on one single hand with pencils, that you won't know in Photoshop either? And isn't carefully selecting a jagged shape like the head of a fluffy cat to flood-fill it, just as cumbersome as making sure your sharpie doesn't go over any lines?
    I think the bottom line is, if you suck with a pencil, you'll suck with a tablet. I think that if you want to be able to create decent stuff on computer, you need to know what you're doing just as much as you need to master any other medium or technique. Digital art may be less messy and obviously more cost-efficient, but it won't make a crappy artist good. It won't correct anatomy flaws for you. I dunno about 3D, never tried it, but drawing and painting is still a challenge and I'm preaching to the choir.

    Digital art is not inferior or less authentic than traditional art. Oh so boohoo an oil painting has many layers of paint and that makes it an authentic oil painting and a digital piece will never--- SHUT UP, that's like saying a seal isn't as authentic as a monkey because it can't climb trees! Drop that monkey in an icy ocean, tell it to dive for fish, and see what happens, why will you...
    Let's keep the fish in the sea and the scorpions in the desert, or take our ignorance back to the dusty laundry room where it belongs with the cockroaches and the mold, shall we?

    Now she's going on about how you need to understand color when painting traditionally - YOU DON'T SAY, I guess Photoshop tells you what colors to use when painting digitally? Geez Photoshop, you bastard, how could you withhold this from me?? What did I draw naked people for in art school?? PHOTOSHOP could just do it for me I guess!

    ...Lord, let brains rain down!

    Who's with me?

    Last edited by AnnaGiladi; June 30th, 2012 at 11:07 AM.
     


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Eh....

    The above rant rambles...

     

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,194
    Thanks
    1,192
    Thanked 1,229 Times in 790 Posts
    I dunno if this is the best place to rant about this; we've had some digital vs. traditional discussions gets kinda heated.

    My advice to you is to try to just chill out and let it go - there will always be people who disagree with you and won't accept your opinion no matter how much you believe in it or how much evidence you think you have. If you have a stroke over every person with a different view, you're in for a very stressful life.

     

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dierat For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Maybe but I just can't stand it when my lifetime of hard work gets belittled like that.

     

  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    How to be a freelancer artist???please help me ...

     

  9. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,317
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 442 Times in 309 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    Maybe but I just can't stand it when my lifetime of hard work gets belittled like that.
    There will always be people who like or dislike your work for the wrong reasons. Get used to it.

     

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by THONEX View Post
    How to be a freelancer artist???please help me ...
    lolwut?

     

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Star Eater For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    101
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
    @OP : Pull yourself together, you may be passionate but losing your cool is unprofessional!.

    Photoshop, Oil, whatever, Technique is just technique in the end, the way you create with it that is more important so not worth getting upset about..

    Keep creating.

     

  13. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,669 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Calm down. Nobody here is arguing with you. Now, what is the situation, exactly? I take it you're in a class, and the instructor has some opinions you disagree with? What in particular precipitated this rather incoherent rant? And, in the big scheme of your life, does it really matter?


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
     

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    160
    Thanks
    106
    Thanked 63 Times in 47 Posts
    Well, there's always going to be ignorance from both sides...And you really can't get mad about it. Maybe all she has ever seen on the digital side is crappy copy and paste jobs or paint overs? So of course she will have a negative view of digital. I highly doubt she knows about guys like Craig Mullins or Daniel Dociu...

     

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    It's certainly disorganized, but i wouldn't call it incomprehensible.

    Maybe it's because I tend to ramble over everything, myself.

     

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by LightandDark View Post
    @OP : Pull yourself together, you may be passionate but losing your cool is unprofessional!.

    Photoshop, Oil, whatever, Technique is just technique in the end, the way you create with it that is more important so not worth getting upset about..

    Keep creating.
    Being a professional is not my plan; dissing my hard work and the pride that comes with it, will go uncommented the day I die.
    Other than that, I agree.

    Calm down. Nobody here is arguing with you. Now, what is the situation, exactly? I take it you're in a class, and the instructor has some opinions you disagree with? What in particular precipitated this rather incoherent rant? And, in the big scheme of your life, does it really matter?
    Oh no, it's just because I know there won't be an argument about this here that I posted this here.
    The situation is that on another art discussion place, this person who specializes in oil painting, keeps being hateful and passive aggressive about the digital work I display there, and digital art in general. She puts perfectly suitable words like drawing or art into quotation marks when referring to my or any digital work, says digital work requires no skill, effort or knowledge, and other lies like that. Not opinions, as she makes statements of (alleged) facts rather than statements of things that can be a matter of perspective. It is simply an undeniable fact that unlike what this ignoramus spews, Photoshop will NOT do the thinking and the being skilled for you. It will not correct your anatomy or spare you any lessons of color or lighting. She claims such knowledge is not required in digital art.
    This was never about liking or disliking something, it's about her blatantly LYING. She claims I don't draw by hand, while the tablet pen needs my skilled hand as much as a ballpen would. Claims I put no work or effort into it. Claims no skill is needed. It's like claiming the sky is green, it's so past opinions, there are things you CANNOT argue about, such as the requirement of skill and knowledge regardless of the medium you use.

    She denies everything that can be proven true about digital art and in doing so, insults every (decent) digital artist out there. We're all a bunch of unskilled lazy idiots who let Photoshop do all the work, is what it boils down to. I mean hey gee I only almost fainted a few times after having worked hard in Photoshop...

    I know I may be reacting more intensely than many or most people. It's just that I take a lot of pride from whatever creativity I put out. It's the one thing I have done, practiced, improved, sweated and cried for, invested in, studied, competed etc. all my life or at least since I was 3 (earliest memory). And while I may not be among the best out there, I'm pretty darn good for my own standards and those of a pretty solid following of a few thousand people. I worked for that. I worked for that, not Photoshop. Belittling and denying that makes me want to hijack a MIG and earth the blasphemist. You can call me fat, ugly, a Zionazi, throw in wh**** - FINE. But do NOT belittle my art. Dislike it, but do NOT deny the hard work.

    Well, there's always going to be ignorance from both sides...And you really can't get mad about it. Maybe all she has ever seen on the digital side is crappy copy and paste jobs or paint overs? So of course she will have a negative view of digital. I highly doubt she knows about guys like Craig Mullins or Daniel Dociu...
    No, it's a show-off place. She saw my work and that's specifically what she's taking as an example. I'm not the greatest, but I don't think I'm an illustration for "unskilled dope relying on the computer".

     

  18. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,669 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Wait, this whole thing is an internet fight?
    Relax. I could (almost) see getting this worked up if this was somebody who you had to interact with in real life. But if it's just online bullshit, let it go.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
     

  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  20. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    760
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked 368 Times in 245 Posts
    Don't worry about it. Some people are just nasty. The same situation could accur if you were an watercolorist. People fight -- some even enjoy it.

    On a side note, if Photoshop could actually do everything for you, then it would be worth the small fortune that Adobe charges.

     

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    520
    Thanks
    102
    Thanked 204 Times in 81 Posts
    Tell her that her mother is a hamster and that her father smelled of elderberries.

     

  22. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,700
    Thanks
    2,672
    Thanked 5,926 Times in 2,380 Posts
    Here is a test. That person is wrong if what you do with traditional mediums from life, looks as good as your Photoshop work, if it doesn't look the same then the program has all of the creativity and they are right.

     

  23. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  24. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    I mean hey gee I only almost fainted a few times after having worked hard in Photoshop...
    You should see a doctor if stuff like that is happening.

     

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Psychotime For This Useful Post:


  26. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,068
    Thanks
    992
    Thanked 2,159 Times in 753 Posts
     

  27. #19
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,669 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Something I continually have to work on myself:
    http://xkcd.com/386/


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
     

  28. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  29. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,068
    Thanks
    992
    Thanked 2,159 Times in 753 Posts
    If I don't tell them they're wrong then who will?

     

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Noah Bradley For This Useful Post:


  31. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Don't worry about it. Some people are just nasty. The same situation could accur if you were an watercolorist. People fight -- some even enjoy it.

    On a side note, if Photoshop could actually do everything for you, then it would be worth the small fortune that Adobe charges.
    Ha! True! I keep gasping at the 3, once upon a time 4, digit prices. And in the meantime, pirates are laughing their butts off. "Oh hai, you can get my software for free on all torrent sites, so I will provide you with the great incentive of buying it for only $700 instead of threatening you with piracy lawsuits that are never gonna happen!"

    Here is a test. That person is wrong if what you do with traditional mediums from life, looks as good as your Photoshop work, if it doesn't look the same then the program has all of the creativity and they are right.
    Not that simple. One could do this to the extent of sketches and lineart, but other styles and techniques require work, material and skillful handling thereof (airbrush gun with the air can and risk of running or clogging and difficulty adjusting brush size, versus Photoshop brush - not fair), time and money to an unreasonable extent where the comparison would no longer be fair.
    For one, paint in Photoshop isn't runny and doesn't get on your clothes, and to get cell style shading as smooth as one does on computer, I would have to actually paint cells, while the process of traditional cell painting is completely different than what it's like on computer as you have to paint on the back, everything is mirrored, paints may mix or form bubbles, one may accidentally wipe a line and ruin it all, the black pens may not come in the right size...
    When doing collages, you can get headaches from the glue, or cut yourself. Painting may get you dirty, and I personally can't handle dirt.
    Starting over with traditional media would mean waste and expenses, while Photshop provides endless "paper" and "ink".

    So one may understand a technique, be capable of applying it, or know about anatomy, color, light etc., but mimicking things like this: http://fav.me/d4t12zu in traditional media, would involve painting a cell for the lineart, cutting up my precious bunny shirt I merely had to scan for this, meticulously painting the musical notes in bleach while in the picture they are a screen layer of a downloaded texture, and how to get that rainbow effect? Making a collage in traditional media, sure, no problem, and drawing those characters is also easy, but otherwise?
    This is not a question of skill, but of unreasonable workload. If I took the time and invested the money in all the materials and their appliccation, I could more or less do it. But it would be insanity.
    Once you understand what you are doing, Photoshop CAN make it easier for you to apply your knowledge, I never denied that. The knowledge just has to come from you because neither Photoshop, nor Copic, can do the thinking and the practicing for you.

    Plus, practice. I have a decade of practice in Photoshop where I can draw an anatomically correct dog no problem. I can also give you the same dog in pencils or ballpen, but would it fair to expect I do the same with a spray can on a letter-sized paper? I don't do spray cans.

    After all, this was never about having to master all traditional techniques that inspire digital works. It was more about having to understand color, light, anatomy, keeping your hand under control for decent strokes, basic things like that. Things that apply to many techniques.

    You should see a doctor if stuff like that is happening.
    Nah, after 30 hours of non-stop work deep into the night and back out, I think that's to be expected

    Something I continually have to work on myself:
    I knooooooooooow.

     

  32. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,341
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked 1,342 Times in 473 Posts
    Plus, practice. I have a decade of practice in Photoshop where I can draw an anatomically correct dog no problem. I can also give you the same dog in pencils or ballpen, but would it fair to expect I do the same with a spray can on a letter-sized paper? I don't do spray cans.
    Honestly? Yes.
    I mean yeah there is a certain timeframe of getting used to the tool you are using, but it's all about the knowledge of the artist. The techniques I use in photoshop are similar to those I use with acrylic paint. Yes, there are a lot of shortcuts in photoshop and I can always use a hue slider or a cut out a section and drop it back a bit which is certainly a lot easier in PS than on canvas, but the same KNOWLEDGE applies.

    On canvas, I would simply identify that something needed to be darker and paint accordingly and in photoshop I would be able to utilize the shortcut to just snip it out and use bright/contrast.

    But at the end of the day it's my experience as an artist that knows WHEN to make something darker or brighter.

    So while I see your point, I still have to agree with Dpaint in the sense that the artist's experience to accomplish his final goal will be attained by ANY tool when he or she uses that tool enough. Once you pick up the basic gist of the tool, the experienced artist will thrive.

     

  33. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Dusty For This Useful Post:


  34. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    So while I see your point, I still have to agree with Dpaint in the sense that the artist's experience to accomplish his final goal will be attained by ANY tool when he or she uses that tool enough. Once you pick up the basic gist of the tool, the experienced artist will thrive.
    Maybe to an extent, but there are limits, like the clumsy spray paint you buy in a DIY shop compared to the super-adjustable, 100% mess-less Photoshop airbrush.
    Yes, if one cares enough to learn how to use that spray paint and has the money to buy can after can and taperoll after taperoll, one will succeed, but why should one care at all if one's happy with the digital skill one has, and has acquired with equally or similarly hard work?

    No artist has ever been slammed or belittled for not having mastered ALL tools and techniques, right? There are things like correct anatomy, a steady hand, or lighting that are universal and apply to all tools and techniques, and I think they are what I'm talking about when I complain about people saying digital artists don't need skill or knowledge.

    An artist should only be measured by the standards of his technique/medium, not media that are worlds apart. Everyone has their speciality, none is inferior to another, only the extent to which one has mastered one's own specialty. And that can be hard in any tool, even Photoshop, for the individual obstacles each tool provides. I don't think a skilled oil painter could out-do me on their first attempt at digital art. And just because I could create oily-looking paintings on PC, doesn't mean I'll master actual oils more easily.

    Or maybe we're talking past one-another.

     

  35. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,700
    Thanks
    2,672
    Thanked 5,926 Times in 2,380 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    I don't think a skilled oil painter could out-do me on their first attempt at digital art. And just because I could create oily-looking paintings on PC, doesn't mean I'll master actual oils more easily.
    Wrong. These were Ian McCaig's Splash screens for Monkey Island. They were the first time he ever touched a paint program. When he came over to the games art department at LucasArts, we had to show him the tool and where things were in the program but that was it. They were painted in 256 colors with a two button mouse, no tablet or stylus back then.

    This myth that these tools are all the same is BS. Skilled people who work from life and learn to paint and draw traditionally can pick up any tool and use it faster than people who rely on digital technology. How hard you work on something doesn't prove the veracity of the work it usually shows an inability not ability.

    Mark Fredickson the great airbrush artist gave a talk in the early 90's for a group of illustrators in S.F. and said the same thing; "if you can't paint the same without an airbrush then the tool has all of the skill not the artist."

    Attached Images Attached Images    
     

  36. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  37. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Savannah, GA
    Posts
    3,091
    Thanks
    1,795
    Thanked 1,555 Times in 607 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Bradley View Post
    If I don't tell them they're wrong then who will?
    Your avatar is so appropriate for stuff like this.

     

  38. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Sorry, but Photoshop is NOT "worlds apart" from oil painting or most other traditional media, and anyone who has reasonable experience in both knows this. The same basic principles apply to drawing and painting digitally or traditionally. If you can draw or paint well in one, you can draw and paint well in another.

    Anything tool-specific is usually either a time-saving convenience, or extra frills.

    There can be rare cases where someone is SO freaked out by the tools they won't even try to learn them... I did know a concept artist who worked strictly traditional and when we sat her in front of a computer she freaked out about learning to use a mouse. But less flighty people have no problem whatever transitioning between traditional and digital, as long as they have solid drawing and painting skills.

     

  39. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  40. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Torrance, CA
    Posts
    6,802
    Thanks
    2,278
    Thanked 4,259 Times in 2,074 Posts
    Photoshop is another medium, and there's things to learn about it, just like oils and other mediums. However, foundations are pretty much all the same that translate to other mediums.

    Sure I have to learn how to use thinners, and mix paints or whether to work from dark to light/light to dark and how to "erase" mistakes in with various media. Still most of the basic concepts are the same.

    After having a chance to browse your gallery, you could work on your foundations. Your artwork will get much better in general. I don't see the point you're wasting on all this arguing with other people ...for what? Is there a prize I don't know about?

     

  41. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Arshes Nei For This Useful Post:


  42. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    385
    Thanks
    262
    Thanked 285 Times in 208 Posts
    I don't understand point of being pissed off about people talking shit... It's unhealthly, You really should chill out.

     

  43. The Following User Says Thank You to hu-ha For This Useful Post:


  44. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    101
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    No artist has ever been slammed or belittled for not having mastered ALL tools and techniques, right? There are things like correct anatomy, a steady hand, or lighting that are universal and apply to all tools and techniques, and I think they are what I'm talking about when I complain about people saying digital artists don't need skill or knowledge..
    I don't know why you get so worked up about it, you live in Israel, the land where its hard not to run into various rude know it alls...you should be used to it by now

     

  45. The Following User Says Thank You to LightandDark For This Useful Post:


  46. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,134
    Thanks
    3,489
    Thanked 5,453 Times in 3,665 Posts
    Just as well there's no link to the argument or I'd be sorely tempted to post it here. That link is pure gold. You might even get your own pie chart.

     

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •