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  1. #14
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    Don't worry about it. Some people are just nasty. The same situation could accur if you were an watercolorist. People fight -- some even enjoy it.

    On a side note, if Photoshop could actually do everything for you, then it would be worth the small fortune that Adobe charges.



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  3. #15
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    Tell her that her mother is a hamster and that her father smelled of elderberries.


  4. #16
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    Here is a test. That person is wrong if what you do with traditional mediums from life, looks as good as your Photoshop work, if it doesn't look the same then the program has all of the creativity and they are right.


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  6. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    I mean hey gee I only almost fainted a few times after having worked hard in Photoshop...
    You should see a doctor if stuff like that is happening.


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  8. #18
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  9. #19
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    Something I continually have to work on myself:
    http://xkcd.com/386/


    Tristan Elwell
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  11. #20
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    If I don't tell them they're wrong then who will?


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  13. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Don't worry about it. Some people are just nasty. The same situation could accur if you were an watercolorist. People fight -- some even enjoy it.

    On a side note, if Photoshop could actually do everything for you, then it would be worth the small fortune that Adobe charges.
    Ha! True! I keep gasping at the 3, once upon a time 4, digit prices. And in the meantime, pirates are laughing their butts off. "Oh hai, you can get my software for free on all torrent sites, so I will provide you with the great incentive of buying it for only $700 instead of threatening you with piracy lawsuits that are never gonna happen!"

    Here is a test. That person is wrong if what you do with traditional mediums from life, looks as good as your Photoshop work, if it doesn't look the same then the program has all of the creativity and they are right.
    Not that simple. One could do this to the extent of sketches and lineart, but other styles and techniques require work, material and skillful handling thereof (airbrush gun with the air can and risk of running or clogging and difficulty adjusting brush size, versus Photoshop brush - not fair), time and money to an unreasonable extent where the comparison would no longer be fair.
    For one, paint in Photoshop isn't runny and doesn't get on your clothes, and to get cell style shading as smooth as one does on computer, I would have to actually paint cells, while the process of traditional cell painting is completely different than what it's like on computer as you have to paint on the back, everything is mirrored, paints may mix or form bubbles, one may accidentally wipe a line and ruin it all, the black pens may not come in the right size...
    When doing collages, you can get headaches from the glue, or cut yourself. Painting may get you dirty, and I personally can't handle dirt.
    Starting over with traditional media would mean waste and expenses, while Photshop provides endless "paper" and "ink".

    So one may understand a technique, be capable of applying it, or know about anatomy, color, light etc., but mimicking things like this: http://fav.me/d4t12zu in traditional media, would involve painting a cell for the lineart, cutting up my precious bunny shirt I merely had to scan for this, meticulously painting the musical notes in bleach while in the picture they are a screen layer of a downloaded texture, and how to get that rainbow effect? Making a collage in traditional media, sure, no problem, and drawing those characters is also easy, but otherwise?
    This is not a question of skill, but of unreasonable workload. If I took the time and invested the money in all the materials and their appliccation, I could more or less do it. But it would be insanity.
    Once you understand what you are doing, Photoshop CAN make it easier for you to apply your knowledge, I never denied that. The knowledge just has to come from you because neither Photoshop, nor Copic, can do the thinking and the practicing for you.

    Plus, practice. I have a decade of practice in Photoshop where I can draw an anatomically correct dog no problem. I can also give you the same dog in pencils or ballpen, but would it fair to expect I do the same with a spray can on a letter-sized paper? I don't do spray cans.

    After all, this was never about having to master all traditional techniques that inspire digital works. It was more about having to understand color, light, anatomy, keeping your hand under control for decent strokes, basic things like that. Things that apply to many techniques.

    You should see a doctor if stuff like that is happening.
    Nah, after 30 hours of non-stop work deep into the night and back out, I think that's to be expected

    Something I continually have to work on myself:
    I knooooooooooow.


  14. #22
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    Plus, practice. I have a decade of practice in Photoshop where I can draw an anatomically correct dog no problem. I can also give you the same dog in pencils or ballpen, but would it fair to expect I do the same with a spray can on a letter-sized paper? I don't do spray cans.
    Honestly? Yes.
    I mean yeah there is a certain timeframe of getting used to the tool you are using, but it's all about the knowledge of the artist. The techniques I use in photoshop are similar to those I use with acrylic paint. Yes, there are a lot of shortcuts in photoshop and I can always use a hue slider or a cut out a section and drop it back a bit which is certainly a lot easier in PS than on canvas, but the same KNOWLEDGE applies.

    On canvas, I would simply identify that something needed to be darker and paint accordingly and in photoshop I would be able to utilize the shortcut to just snip it out and use bright/contrast.

    But at the end of the day it's my experience as an artist that knows WHEN to make something darker or brighter.

    So while I see your point, I still have to agree with Dpaint in the sense that the artist's experience to accomplish his final goal will be attained by ANY tool when he or she uses that tool enough. Once you pick up the basic gist of the tool, the experienced artist will thrive.


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  16. #23
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    So while I see your point, I still have to agree with Dpaint in the sense that the artist's experience to accomplish his final goal will be attained by ANY tool when he or she uses that tool enough. Once you pick up the basic gist of the tool, the experienced artist will thrive.
    Maybe to an extent, but there are limits, like the clumsy spray paint you buy in a DIY shop compared to the super-adjustable, 100% mess-less Photoshop airbrush.
    Yes, if one cares enough to learn how to use that spray paint and has the money to buy can after can and taperoll after taperoll, one will succeed, but why should one care at all if one's happy with the digital skill one has, and has acquired with equally or similarly hard work?

    No artist has ever been slammed or belittled for not having mastered ALL tools and techniques, right? There are things like correct anatomy, a steady hand, or lighting that are universal and apply to all tools and techniques, and I think they are what I'm talking about when I complain about people saying digital artists don't need skill or knowledge.

    An artist should only be measured by the standards of his technique/medium, not media that are worlds apart. Everyone has their speciality, none is inferior to another, only the extent to which one has mastered one's own specialty. And that can be hard in any tool, even Photoshop, for the individual obstacles each tool provides. I don't think a skilled oil painter could out-do me on their first attempt at digital art. And just because I could create oily-looking paintings on PC, doesn't mean I'll master actual oils more easily.

    Or maybe we're talking past one-another.


  17. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaGiladi View Post
    I don't think a skilled oil painter could out-do me on their first attempt at digital art. And just because I could create oily-looking paintings on PC, doesn't mean I'll master actual oils more easily.
    Wrong. These were Ian McCaig's Splash screens for Monkey Island. They were the first time he ever touched a paint program. When he came over to the games art department at LucasArts, we had to show him the tool and where things were in the program but that was it. They were painted in 256 colors with a two button mouse, no tablet or stylus back then.

    This myth that these tools are all the same is BS. Skilled people who work from life and learn to paint and draw traditionally can pick up any tool and use it faster than people who rely on digital technology. How hard you work on something doesn't prove the veracity of the work it usually shows an inability not ability.

    Mark Fredickson the great airbrush artist gave a talk in the early 90's for a group of illustrators in S.F. and said the same thing; "if you can't paint the same without an airbrush then the tool has all of the skill not the artist."

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  19. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Bradley View Post
    If I don't tell them they're wrong then who will?
    Your avatar is so appropriate for stuff like this.


  20. #26
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    Sorry, but Photoshop is NOT "worlds apart" from oil painting or most other traditional media, and anyone who has reasonable experience in both knows this. The same basic principles apply to drawing and painting digitally or traditionally. If you can draw or paint well in one, you can draw and paint well in another.

    Anything tool-specific is usually either a time-saving convenience, or extra frills.

    There can be rare cases where someone is SO freaked out by the tools they won't even try to learn them... I did know a concept artist who worked strictly traditional and when we sat her in front of a computer she freaked out about learning to use a mouse. But less flighty people have no problem whatever transitioning between traditional and digital, as long as they have solid drawing and painting skills.


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