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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    At this point your portfolio no longer should be a concern...'cause you're exactly the kind of person people love working with!
    Why is that? Because I stated the fact that successful movies and games upon release get more of a response and reaction than successful design campaigns. Because I am not void of reality people would hate working with me?

    When supermeatboy was released there was 20,000 sales on the first day, there was youtube videos dedicated before it even released and when it was released there was tons of people posting reactions and opinions on it. Not to mention the amount of articles it received.

    You simply don't release a poster, illustration or web design to that amount of reception.

    Last edited by Pandasftuw; June 28th, 2012 at 08:38 PM.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    I don't many people still write reviews and comments about The Maltese Falcon.
    When supermeatboy was released there was 20,000 sales on the first day, there was youtube videos dedicated before it even released and when it was released there was tons of people posting reactions and opinions on it. Not to mention the amount of articles it received.

    You simply don't release a poster, illustration or web design to that amount of reception.

    Point made.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    Why is that? Because I state the fact that successful movies and games upon release get more of a response and reaction than successful design campaigns. Because I am not void of reality people would hate working with me?
    No. Because you have no idea how to interact with people. I have no idea wtf you're even talking about at this point. I thought you were interested in feedback on your art. Obviously not. You're simply interested in trolling.

    People don't like working with trolls therefor the quality of your portfolio is moot.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    Of course there are tons of bad flash video games and student films that get no attention but I am talking in terms of success, a successful web design will not get as many articles and comments and debate as a successful movie or game. They are more interactive and will get a response no matter what. You engage more will your audience and actually have an audience.
    Who said anything about bad games of student films? Just because something is done by a student doesn't mean it's awful. Did you see Eyrie? It won the student academy award this year for animation.

    Part of it is what the art is for; web-design is generally used not as artwork, but to present information in a clear and appealing manner. I don't usually see people rave over packaging design either.

    There also seems to be a basic misunderstanding that interactive=audience. I believe this to be a fallacy, since film is not at all interactive. (Seriously. you go and sit passively and watch something on a screen.) Do you mean engaging instead?

    What films do really well however (when they are well-made) is to entertain, and evoke an emotional response in the audience. They can pose a question, and we want to see the answer! Films are effectively storytelling, so when it's good - well most people want to see/hear/read a good story.

    If you are not satisfied with the response to your work, you have three options:

    1. Market yourself. Maybe people aren't seeing your work. This can take time. This can include joining social networking sites, creating a website, updating regularly, and actually interacting with other artists and your audience.
    2. Get better. Maybe your work is not up to par yet. (don't rely on your own judgement for this; so you still need to show your work to others.)
    3. quit and do something else.

    Well. there is a fourth option.

    4. Don't care, and just enjoy making artwork.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    No. Because you have no idea how to interact with people. I have no idea wtf you're even talking about at this point. I thought you were interested in feedback on your art. Obviously not. You're simply interested in trolling.

    People don't like working with trolls therefor the quality of your portfolio is moot.
    Because you know me so well. Yeah 10 forum post are really enough to judge a human being. Well done.

    You are calling me a troll but yet I can't argue with myself. If people want me to justify my point I will and have, that is in no way trolling. Grow up. Debate is not a sign of a bad person.

    If you don't understand my OP try re-reading it.

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  9. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    When supermeatboy was released there was 20,000 sales on the first day, there was youtube videos dedicated before it even released and when it was released there was tons of people posting reactions and opinions on it. Not to mention the amount of articles it received.

    You simply don't release a poster, illustration or web design to that amount of reception.

    Point made.
    What if you talk to someone who doesn't give a damn about video games or movies.

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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    If people are misinterpreting me I have every right to disagree with them and set them straight.
    "set them straight", huh?
    I think you might want to go back to that "Worst of CA" post you made.
    Start rethinking this train of thought, dude.

    For your own growth as an artist!

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  11. #38
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    Who said anything about bad games of student films?
    Me in the post you just responded to.

    Just because something is done by a student doesn't mean it's awful.
    When did I say it did? Oh yeah, I didn't.


    Part of it is what the art is for; web-design is generally used not as artwork, but to present information in a clear and appealing manner. I don't usually see people rave over packaging design either.
    Exactly.

    There also seems to be a basic misunderstanding that interactive=audience. I believe this to be a fallacy, since film is not at all interactive. (Seriously. you go and sit passively and watch something on a screen.) Do you mean engaging instead?
    I was talking about interaction with the audience of your product.

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  12. #39
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    So enlighten me. What is it you're interested in here?

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  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
    "set them straight", huh?
    I think you might want to go back to that "Worst of CA" post you made.
    Start rethinking this train of thought, dude.

    For your own growth as an artist!
    I have no idea what post you are talking about =S

    But yes set them straight. Would like to disagree with me? Or would you like to disagree with me about me disagreeing with others? Both seem pretty pointless at this stage as I have demonstrated my points clearly.

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  14. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    Me in the post you just responded to.



    When did I say it did? Oh yeah, I didn't.




    Exactly.



    I was talking about interaction with the audience of your product.
    Yeah. That would be engaging the audience. Just like right now you're engaging an audience in this forum, most of which are not happy with you at the moment. Since this is a response from more than one individual I would strongly recommend you take the time to re-read the thread and try and understand why people are reacting the way they are. (even I'm aggravated. You're not discussing the points I made, but rather outright dismissing them in an inflammatory manner. Sure, disagree - but there's no need to be rude about it. "When did I say it did? Oh yeah, I didn't." is rude.)

    I'd never heard of that video game super meat boy; but I looked it up briefly and here's what I quickly realized: 1. It's the sequel to an established property. 2. The original property most likely had a good chunk of marketing involved. (There are items that can be successful without marketing, but they tend to be outliers and not a representative sample. If the project is being done by a professional company, it WILL have a marketing budget.) 3. Because it is the sequel to an established property that was successful, there was going to be audience anticipation. 4. There can only be audience anticipation if people know it's coming. 5. People only know something is being released because of marketing.


    Lastly, film, games, tv, and comics are part of "entertainment". The entire point is to engage the audience. Does narrative illustration do the same? I'd say so, but then my apartment is filled with books of illustration/drawings. I'm not a huge gamer, though. So I'm not the target audience; again, it comes down to marketing. Letting the people who are interested in the property know it's going to be available. Sometimes it's a matter of finding that group.

    So it still comes down to marketing. Some fields have a bigger potential audience than others.

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  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashback View Post
    What if you talk to someone who doesn't give a damn about video games or movies.
    I don't see what relation that has to the instantaneous reception and the amount of feedback you get of releasing games and movies as oppose to releasing a design.

    I feel like I am arguing that the sky is blue. Only on the internet do such evident truths have to be debated. I am all for having a discussion but I get the feeling you all just want to "win" lol.

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  17. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    I was talking about interaction with the audience of your product.
    ...because everyone involved in making a movie or game has SO much interaction with the audience. The key grip? The beta testers? The junior accountant? Yep, they're getting loads of fame and feedback from millions of enthralled viewers and players. /sarcasm

    At this point I don't think anyone even knows WHAT you want... Personal fame? Your name in lights? Direct feedback from people who see your work? Asspats and ego-stoking? It's not at all clear.

    If you work on a large movie or game, odds are you won't get ANY of the above, unless you're the director or actor or someone else vey high in the production hierarchy - which you won't be as a starting artist, not for years and years.

    I don't know how this turned into a dichotomy between "Movies and Games" versus "Web Design", either. Whatever happened to images? Illustration? Painting? There's plenty of super-popular still images in the world, and art that garners millions of rabid fans (Frazetta, anyone?)

    Even with design, I might point out that there are many famous designers and many iconic, famous designs that everyone recognizes instantly. (Especially logo designs.) And many designs have turned a poorly selling product into a successful one (yes, even web designs.) One might suppose that knowing millions of people are using/buying a product because of your design would be validation enough for a designer... Unless you need a personal asspat to validate everything you do.

    But NONE of this is ever going to apply to you if you don't. Even. Show. Your work.

    Also, your general attitude is not going to help your career at the rate you're going...

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  18. #44
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    So what's up? How can we help you? I'm genuinely interested in seeing your work and offering feedback. Just not able to do so currently.

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  19. #45
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    Yeah. That would be engaging the audience. Just like right now you're engaging an audience in this forum
    Can you try any harder? Why do people find it so hard to admit they are wrong online?

    My exact quote:

    "I am finding that this medium is not very interactive. If you create a game or movie you get reviews and articles about your work and you can gain an insight on what people think of your work even if you don't want it."

    A response from your audience is them interacting with you. Me sending you messages is an interaction.








    "When did I say it did? Oh yeah, I didn't." is rude.)
    I am blunt. I didn't say it and I don't appreciate you insinuating I said it.

    The truth is not rude. You wasting my time trying to argue over things I never even suggested is rude.





    I'd never heard of that video game super meat boy; but I looked it up briefly and here's what I quickly realized: 1. It's the sequel to an established property.
    It was only a flash game. It doesn't even have a wiki but the original Meat Boy is an Adobe Flash game created by Edmund McMillen and programmed by Jonathan McEntee. The game was developed over a three week period, and was released on Newgrounds on October 5, 2008. By April 2009, it had garnered over 840,000 views at Newgrounds, and 8 million overall.[13] A map pack for the Flash version was released on December 8, 2008.[14] McMillen began development of Super Meat Boy after Nintendo and Microsoft requested that he make a game for their download services, WiiWare and Xbox Live Arcade,

    2. The original property most likely had a good chunk of marketing involved. (There are items that can be successful without marketing, but they tend to be outliers and not a representative sample. If the project is being done by a professional company, it WILL have a marketing budget.)
    And? When did I say marketing was irrelevant? NOWHERE. In fact the contrary.



    Lastly, film, games, tv, and comics are part of "entertainment". The entire point is to engage the audience. Does narrative illustration do the same? I'd say so, but then my apartment is filled with books of illustration/drawings. I'm not a huge gamer, though. So I'm not the target audience; again, it comes down to marketing. Letting the people who are interested in the property know it's going to be available. Sometimes it's a matter of finding that group.

    Yes they do the same but that isn't what is in dispute here. I am saying you don't get the attention, interaction and responses from your audience in the same way entertainment products do.



    So it still comes down to marketing. Some fields have a bigger potential audience than others.
    So if I give you a marketing budget of 10,000 for your illustration and game the same, what do you think will get the most responses, sales, attention and coverage and general hype?

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  20. #46
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    I might also point out that there are designers whose name alone is enough to sell products. (Hello, Starck.) And there are people making games who nobody's ever heard of and whose games are largely unplayed. So again I say, it doesn't matter much what field you're in, it matters what you do with it, who your audience is, and how you sell yourself to your audience.

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  21. #47
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    Stop the feeding.

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  22. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    I have no idea what post you are talking about =S

    But yes set them straight. Would like to disagree with me? Or would you like to disagree with me about me disagreeing with others? Both seem pretty pointless at this stage as I have demonstrated my points clearly.
    Well, I quoted you. So obviously that is what I was talking about.

    My point is that as an artist, you should always be learning - not being combative. If you post your art and someone says something about it that needs improvement, you shouldn't be "setting them straight", you should accept the feedback, digest it, and decide to either listen and apply the feedback or ignore it.

    But there is no need to "set people straight" when they are offering you feedback. Because you know what happens when you do that?

    PEOPLE STOP REPLYING.
    PEOPLE STOP VIEWING.

    Which is exactly what you seem to have a problem with in the first place.

    Edit: Ah, I see the confusion.
    I read this post:
    OP was one of the responders in a worst of/apology for doing something stupid in the past type threads
    I did not see that you weren't aware of this and that you were not this person. SO...since you weren't. Maybe you should go read that thread. I think you might find it educational to your current behavior.

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  23. #49
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    Oh for fuck's sake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    You are not understanding the point of my post in the slightest.
    Nobody understands the point of any of your posts.
    Pandasftuw is banned for being generally annoying, and for contributing absolutely nothing.

    Last edited by Elwell; June 28th, 2012 at 10:02 PM.

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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Oh for fuck's sake.
    Nobody understands the point of any of your posts.
    Pandasftuw is banned for being generally annoying, and for contributing absolutely nothing.
    Thanks Elwell. I was getting an urge to reply to the OP, I'm glad someone stopped that urge in time...

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  26. #51
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    Tristan Elwell
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    I might also point out that there are designers whose name alone is enough to sell products. (Hello, Starck.)
    Never said there wasn't.

    And there are people making games who nobody's ever heard of and whose games are largely unplayed.
    I have already addressed this: Of course there are tons of bad flash video games and student films that get no attention but I am talking in terms of success, a successful web design will not get as many articles and comments and debate as a successful movie or game. They are more interactive and will get a response no matter what. You engage more with your audience and actually have an audience.






    So again I say, it doesn't matter much what field you're in, it matters what you do with it, who your audience is, and how you sell yourself to your audience.
    I agree hence why I never said anything to the contrary. I just said that sucessfull games and films get more of a response upon release than an advert or poster for the game or movie.


    ...because everyone involved in making a movie or game has SO much interaction with the audience. The key grip? The beta testers? The junior accountant? Yep, they're getting loads of fame and feedback from millions of enthralled viewers and players. /sarcasm
    As stated the product will get the coverage, response, feedback and prehaps appreciation, I never stated everyone will get a personal response. Again you should really take those reading comprehension lessons, remember rejecting advice is rude and people won't want to work with you.





    At this point I don't think anyone even knows WHAT you want... Personal fame? Your name in lights? Direct feedback from people who see your work? Asspats and ego-stoking? It's not at all clear.
    Read the OP.



    Also, your general attitude is not going to help your career at the rate you're going...
    Really because I have gotten in to central st martins for design, so my attitude is working pretty well for me. This idiotic notion that I can't disagree with you or I'll have a bad career is laughable and far fetched.

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    My point is that as an artist, you should always be learning - not being combative.
    So if someone tells me racism is right, I should learn that and not combat it?
    We are debating my opinions here not my art.



    If you post your art and someone says something about it that needs improvement, you shouldn't be "setting them straight", you should accept the feedback, digest it, and decide to either listen and apply the feedback or ignore it.
    No one has said anything about my art. But any artist has the right to defend their work so your notion even though it doesn't apply to me is idiotic anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Oh for fuck's sake.

    Nobody understands the point of any of your posts.
    Pandasftuw is banned for being generally annoying, and for contributing absolutely nothing.

    Why are you mad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Lol. So anyone who disagrees with the masses gets banned?

    Freedom of speech who?

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    Oh my god!! Die!! Die!! Die!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stacybean View Post
    Oh my god!! Die!! Die!! Die!!
    Death threats? No ban.

    Speaking the truth. Ban

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    Why come here to get advice and attack everyone who tries to help you? Be banned and good ridance.

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  34. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandasftuw View Post
    Because you know me so well. Yeah 10 forum post are really enough to judge a human being. Well done.
    That was actually seven more than I needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Why come here to get advice and attack everyone who tries to help you? Be banned and good ridance.
    Because I haven't attacked anyone. I responded to attacks. I have not disputed any actual advice here.

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