Arrest - need crits

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Thread: Arrest - need crits

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    Arrest - need crits

    Hey guys, I've been working on this for 2 days now.

    I'm looking for crits on proportions, values, colors and anatomy mainly. I'm not sure about the girl's expression too.

    For composition and story, I don't think I'll change much. They're kinda low on my goals for this piece but I'm happy to read some if there are any.

    I'm saving the highlights and brightness for later so the lit areas especially on the 2 guards aren't strong enough.

    Thanks.

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    The thing the guard at left is holding looks like...well, I don't want to say it in a family-friendly forum like this, but I'd strongly suggest you rethink its design.

    The piece doesn't otherwise feel too bad except that the foreshortening and placement of features on all three faces feels a bit clumsy. (The expressions are very well-done, though, in terms of conveying what's going on.) As always: find some reference.

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    @Giacomo - Can you be specific on what facial features are off? The faces are the hassle for me here lol. Wanna finish them as quickly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edictiv View Post
    @Giacomo - Can you be specific on what facial features are off? The faces are the hassle for me here lol.
    It's not like any particular feature is massively wrong here, it's just (to use a phrase I've used before) that everything is off by 10-20%. If it were me, I'd find some photo reference (those angles should be pretty easy to find) and use it as an underlay to get the proportions and foreshortening working better.

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    Ok thanks. I'll do that.

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    The faces are flat you have a direct light source and a dark shadow, though not dark enough, and a large middle ground. The gradiant between these three are more subtle then you show. The men's helmets should cast far darker shadows, and the light should only hit select features on their faces, the ladies nose almost looks paper thin,.... I would look into how to make the features of the face more Solid Forms, I think it will correct alot of anitomical issues you are haveing. I did a paint over showing how I would push the light to make it more dynamic and play a role in accuseing the lady of her crime.
    Edit I see the same thing on the hands with the exception of her raised one, maybe it is just you have not rendered them out, but atm they all seem flat

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    Last edited by Stryno; June 26th, 2012 at 10:19 PM.
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    @Stryno - Thanks. I'll deal with the brightness near finish or after I'm happy with everything else.

    I get back to this after sleep. :3

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    Take my "paintover" with a grain of salt - mostly focuses on the hands. You also have a few areas of tangents.

    The man's face on the left seems a bit off to me, but I'm not sure exactly what it is. :/ Sorry.

    EDIT: sigh. forgot the attachment. Kinda important..

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    I'm not sure if this is what you're going for, so please feel free to ignore my comment if so; the guard who is taking the item from the woman initially had an expression that spoke more of malicious intent. However, now that you've rendered him out a bit more he kind of looks like a kindly grandfather that's just discovered that his favourite grandchild's stash of stolen toffees - and it's not jiving with the other guard's expression anymore. So, you might want to consider that if you're going for an air of brutishness about the guards.

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    @Alice - Thanks! Just what I needed.

    @Kveldvaahiim - Yeah I was going for the malicious brute at first but it's really hard to nail that expression down with a more realistic rendering. If you notice the first wip the eyes are very pointy and stylized. It's a habit I'm trying to get rid of. I guess I'll take the nice guard route.

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    There are still significant anatomy and proportion issues here. I cut-and-pasted some derpy Poser heads onto the existing art to show what I mean. You can hopefully see how you're not quite paying close enough attention to stuff like the placement of the eyes on the soldier on the left. Also, the two figures on the right don't seem to have necks, and those helmets are waay too small to fit on their heads.

    I'm not sure if you're working completely out of your head here (and if you are, I'm tremendously envious of your ability to do so) or using reference. But I'd strongly suggest you find some photos to get the details a bit closer to "right." (or if you are using reference, scrutinize it a lot more carefully than you're doing right now.)

    As always, just my two cents.

    Arrest - need crits

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    Hmm strangely I don't agree with any of the above crits except for the man's facial expression. He looks way too nice now

    I really like it.

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    @Giacomo - Of course I use photo references. The trouble is that its almost impossible to find the right pose at the right angle with the exact lighting you want. So you end up with a messy collection and you just gotta fill in the blanks. It's not that hard though you just need one major reference of a scene with a mood and set-up that is similar to your planned result. And yeah I do pose in the mirror for reference too. Besides 3D or live models I don't know how others do it. Anyway I'm buying a DSLR soon. That'll be a great help.

    For the eye placement, I realized it's that small area between the inner tip of the eye and the side of the nose that I usually omit. I looked at my sketchbook and yes it's definitely one of my problems. Oddly enough I have some faces wherein that part is well rendered lol.

    For the necks. The girl is supposed to be pulled back a bit while her head is a bit more forward and her shoulder raised hence the illusion of no neck. Similarly, the guard behind is hunched a bit. I guess I wanted to emphasize the minor struggle. I didn't really think about it much when I sketched the lines so yeah it was a clumsy mistake. I hope it looks ok now.

    I also enlarged the helmets. Besides these that you specified I can't really see what other significant problems you talk about. You know when I read those last crits I kinda went "Whut? Can't see bro.wait I do but... really, they're no biggie bro".... until of course I did do them and noticed the difference. Sometimes spoon-feeding is best. Thanks.

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    Last edited by Edictiv; June 28th, 2012 at 07:22 PM.
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    Lol Artfix I missed your comment. You must've posted while I was typing. I'll see what I can do about the guard's expression. Thanks.

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    It's your art, you can do what you want of course, but I just wanted to add that just because a certain part is challenging doesn't mean you should abandon it to the detriment of your piece ;p You can do it!

    Oh, just wanted to add that I understand what you're going for with the double arches in the background there, but it doesn't read that way. It looks to me like a single, chunky and weirdly designed arch way. Need to separate the two and make them individual from one another.

    One more thing that is just a bit nitpicky; I take it this is supposed to be in some sort of Ottomanish style setting right? I'm not hugely familiar with the history or the populace at the time buuuuttttt... these folks are very white. As in pale. Except the two dudes in the background. I am wondering if it would be more accurate to make their skin darker, if that's even possible at this point.

    Last edited by Ysvyri; June 29th, 2012 at 04:21 AM.
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    Hey Edictiv, I've just got a couple of suggestions for you, mostly regarding your lighting and colour choices. I think the image itself is reading pretty well, there's a great sense of story. I've done a quick paintover, to try and show you what I mean when i say light and colour. One of the first things that hit me was how pale and green the woman was... I think I know what you were trying for when you used the pale green in skin tone, but I think the whole thing needs a bit more orange or red in it to balance it, as she's looking a little albino lizard for me at the moment! I liked the sense of strong light you had, but the warmth and coolness of the highlights and shadows seems to change across the image. You might want to use warmer shadows for the characters closest to us, the ones you want the viewer to focus on, and then use the cooler ambient light of the blue sky to push the background back a little. Skin especially will generally be much warmer in the shadows when you have a strong midday light, though you'll get some bounced blueish tone where the planes are pointing back up toward the sky. Even more so where you have skin casting shadow on skin.. so all the fold sin her fists, and where his hand meets hers, the shadows will be dark, but really saturated as the light is being bounced about inside those shadowy clefts lots of times.

    Only other major thing i did repaint was his face as it felt like you weren't too confident with what kind of expression you were going to give the guard, so I've tweaked his anatomy, filled his head into the helmet a little more and really pushed the expression to give him that 'aha! I knew you were hiding that, and now you're going to get it' look.

    I'm on a short time schedule atm as it's my lunch hour so I'll just post the paint over - feel free to ask if there's anything that doesn't make much sense. my main aim was to really focus the viewer with the light and contrast on what was happening with the characters.

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    Last edited by zephyri; June 29th, 2012 at 10:26 AM. Reason: tweaked image
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    Edictiv it is comeing along great. Zephyri, really captured what I was trying to explain with the light, also notice how he made the features of thier faces more solid, and the shadow from the helmit on Zephyri's painting seams more natural. thanks Zephyri, you got my point acrossed better then I did. So far Edictiv, I am impressed with how you applyed the crits and made this piece much stronger, I dot know if Artfix still disagrees with the crits, but for me your last post is by far stronger, and more complete.

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    @Kveldvaahiim - There's lots of cultural overlap between the Ottomans and Europeans especially areas between their cores. It may sound like I'm trying hard to come up with excuses because I am lol. Again, I haven't really thought much about it.

    I gave lines along the front arch. Hope thats enough.

    @Zephyri - Followed your suggestion on colors although I did it more subtly. You know I'm terrible at identifying subtle colors. You say green but for the whole time I thought its was de-saturated brown. Any exercise you suggest for this problem? Yes, I really want the girl to be pale (not sure why lol).

    As for the guard's face I went for a sly and relaxed expression instead. Like it's not the first time he caught thieves.

    @Stryno - Thanks! The crits really helped me a lot.

    I'm sure there are still things that are off but I'm gonna call this finished.

    As for my weaknesses I might return to my old sketchbook here at CA and focus on anatomy.

    Thanks everyone!

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    Last edited by Edictiv; June 30th, 2012 at 10:40 PM.
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    Sorry to go off topic but hey Trevor what happened to your SB mate the link is broken in your post page all I can look at is the portfolio?

    just wondered bud, all the best as usual.

    A great kind hearted lumbering bullock



    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209918 = my Sketchbook
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    I think the Zephyr paint over really nailed it.

    Also, I'm wondering... what exactly did she steal? It's an important part of the painting, but I can't really tell what it is. Some kind of pendant?

    I am really digging the subject matter / story. The background and lighting looks great, I can feel the mood and like all the details you put in the clothing.

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