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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Work in Progress

    All commentary is welcome!

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    Last edited by SycrosD4; June 12th, 2012 at 07:51 PM.
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  3. #2
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    Could you make the image smaller so we can see everything without having to scroll please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyCharm View Post
    Could you make the image smaller so we can see everything without having to scroll please?

    Sure! Done!

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  5. #4
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    Are we looking through someone's legs? What's going on in the foreground?

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliM View Post
    Are we looking through someone's legs? What's going on in the foreground?
    That's precisely what's happening in the foreground.

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  7. #6
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    What I wonder is why we're looking through the space between someone's legs. As a panel in a comic, it might make sense within a certain context, but as an independent drawing the point of view seems arbitrary. I'm not reading anything one way or the other from the legs. Did you do thumbnails? Did you have any intentions beyond depicting an anonymous person making a dramatic entrance in a vague location?

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunler View Post
    What I wonder is why we're looking through the space between someone's legs. As a panel in a comic, it might make sense within a certain context, but as an independent drawing the point of view seems arbitrary. I'm not reading anything one way or the other from the legs. Did you do thumbnails? Did you have any intentions beyond depicting an anonymous person making a dramatic entrance in a vague location?
    Thanks for the tips, Grunler. I did do thumbnails, and basically, my intention was to establish a sense of opposition between the characters, though it's not completely established who they are, I admit. I'll be putting up more stages soon. Like now...

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  9. #8
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    Finished, I guess.

    And, I'm done with this piece. Not very good, I know, but hey.

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  10. #9
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    Looking glass (progress)

    Okay, so this is my next big task. This sketch - I hope - reads well as to what I'm going for here.

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  11. #10
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    What were your thumbnails for this?
    Also, where are we? What's the point of this image? Why is this happening? Does the lamp/table contribute something to the story/image being there, why is the mirror/painting on the ground (like is this some storage room or attic?), if this is supposed to be dramatic or scary why is the viewpoint this basic and uninteresting?
    Also really work out the perspective of the character (she's leaning very much, and not in a way that would make sense) as well as the pose. There's no emotion in the pose and if you removed the thing grabbing her it would be impossible to say whether her hand is being pulled or if she's stretching her arm on her own towards the lamp.

    Also on a Your Mileage May Vary note, she's currently having borderline man-anatomy with really wide shoulders and narrow waist, so unless the character is specifically supposed to be such I might look into it.

    Last edited by TinyBird; June 23rd, 2012 at 02:59 PM.
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  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    What were your thumbnails for this?
    Also, where are we? What's the point of this image? Why is this happening? Does the lamp/table contribute something to the story/image being there, why is the mirror/painting on the ground (like is this some storage room or attic?), if this is supposed to be dramatic or scary why is the viewpoint this basic and uninteresting?
    Also really work out the perspective of the character (she's leaning very much, and not in a way that would make sense) as well as the pose. There's no emotion in the pose and if you removed the thing grabbing her it would be impossible to say whether her hand is being pulled or if she's stretching her arm on her own towards the lamp.

    Also on a Your Mileage May Vary note, she's currently having borderline man-anatomy with really wide shoulders and narrow waist, so unless the character is specifically supposed to be such I might look into it.
    Thanks for the reply. As the title implies, it's inspired by Lewis Carroll's "Through the Looking Glass." The mirror's not on the ground, but the legs are quite short. I can understand why they might be missed at this stage, but no, this is taking place in part of a hallway. The lamp is simply there to be a light source and help establish the setting. I'll be doing a hand-drawn outline of it later. Other things like textures and wallpapers will be used as well.

    The angle being basic is mainly because I'm drawing inspiration from the work of Mark Ryden for this piece, and he had a great thing for bringing about very eerie and chilling images without the use of dramatic angles. Basically, I want the subject matter to "do all the talking".

    I see what you mean about the pose. It's sad that this is my third or fourth draft with the pose. Also, I can't seem to find any reference for what I'm looking for, so I'll just have to keep playing it by ear (frustration). I agree in thinking that the proportions could use some tweaking as well.

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  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    The mirror's not on the ground, but the legs are quite short. I can understand why they might be missed at this stage, but no, this is taking place in part of a hallway.
    I have to admit I'm not seeing any legs on the mirror, and considering it's a hallways, having a mirror that low doesn't really make sense to me, compared to, well having the mirror higher or a long, full body mirror (maybe it's historically correct, but I haven't found mentions of that sort of mirrors) and overall it's just creating more questions and confusion to me that it should considering it's a singular image. Also I personally wouldn't say no seeing more of the actual hallway, because now it's impossible to know where this is happening, which kinda creates confusion.

    The angle being basic is mainly because I'm drawing inspiration from the work of Mark Ryden for this piece, and he had a great thing for bringing about very eerie and chilling images without the use of dramatic angles. Basically, I want the subject matter to "do all the talking".
    Well, you might also note that he uses this sort of "Uncanny Valley effect" in his images with a little flair of "disgusting realism" the rendering of his images, (not to mention the subject matter) where as yours seems to be a pretty basic animu styled drawing at least in this, that doesn't really create any of the same effect. So unless you're planning on changing the style, in my opinion just taking inspiration of his work isn't really enough to support this image.

    Also, I can't seem to find any reference for what I'm looking for, so I'll just have to keep playing it by ear (frustration).
    Get a camera and pose by yourself?

    And your thumbnails?

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  15. #13
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    Unhappy Looking glass (progress)

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post

    Get a camera and pose by yourself?

    And your thumbnails?
    Okay, here's the alteration to the pose. I understand what you meant by saying that there wasn't much emotion in the pose, but the last thing I want to do is push the pose so far that it becomes cartoon-y or exaggerated. I've made the figure smaller to increase the scale of the setting, though I'm thinking the piece will have to have a smaller canvas now. It was my intention to make the border seem confined while suggesting that the environment was larger as well, hence having only one wall.

    While writing this, I had the idea of having her lying down and trying to crawl away from the tendrils coming out of the mirror. The two major ways I want the tendrils to interact with her is 1) engulfing her left arm and 2) smaller bony claws tearing at the bottom of her blouse. Having her fall over and crawl might help with the emotional impact while not having to push the pose too far.

    Thanks for the feedback. As a fledgling concept artist in self-training, this is a really frustrating time for me. I have a BFA degree, but my skill in concept art specifically is very weak indeed. Getting feedback from folks further along in the game really helps.

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  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    ... I understand what you meant by saying that there wasn't much emotion in the pose, but the last thing I want to do is push the pose so far that it becomes cartoon-y or exaggerated...
    Shoot some reference!

    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    ...While writing this, I had the idea of having her...
    Do some thumbnails!

    Really, you quoted two of TinyBird's suggestions, and I'm not seeing you follow either in your reply. If you draw the figure from your head, it's going to look cartoony. If you have other ideas for the composition, do some thumbnails so we can see.

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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    I have a BFA degree, but my skill in concept art specifically is very weak indeed.
    Wouldn't this be more like illustration though? Well anyway, what Grunler said. It's like you're deliberately doing against all the advice that's given to you.
    I understand what you meant by saying that there wasn't much emotion in the pose, but the last thing I want to do is push the pose so far that it becomes cartoon-y or exaggerated.
    And this isn't necessarily a matter of exaggerating (though the fact that you don't want the pose to be cartoony is bit ironic considering your art style) but even changing the pose to a more natural one. Like said, get a camera and play the scene out! It doesn't matter if you're not a girl, you still have same basic limbs (hopefully) and you get affected by the perspective just the same, and you can just wrap a sheet to your waist to act as a skirt.
    To get it as close as possible you can tie a rope/belt/whatever to somewhere and try to pull it, or preferably have someone pull the rope you're holding to emulate the "your arm is being pulled" look as best as you can.
    It'll save you a lot of time in the end, most likely produce a better quality image and at least produce some stuff you can study.

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  18. #16
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    On the first picture you put all the detail into the bookshelves making the whole depth perception totally off. And what is it with the third leg (the leg on the left looks wooden at the bottom as it has no curves to it)? Lose it.

    Now it looks like you're going to make exactly the same mistake again. Over render one bit and lose interest in the rest. Plan, plan and plan before going OTT on one bit. It does show you know.

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunler View Post
    Really, you quoted two of TinyBird's suggestions, and I'm not seeing you follow either in your reply. If you draw the figure from your head, it's going to look cartoony. If you have other ideas for the composition, do some thumbnails so we can see.
    I will, but it was late at night when I did this. I'll be putting up some thumbnails very soon. Getting photo references is also a real stretch for me - more than it is for most people. I only have myself and my IPhone, and I can't figure a way to get a full body shot of myself in those conditions. I can try, but I don't think it's gonna be pretty. Anyway, thumbnails...

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  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    I only have myself and my IPhone, and I can't figure a way to get a full body shot of myself in those conditions.
    Which is why it's good to start collecting money so you can buy a small digital camera and a cheap tiny tripod. Even something like this helps a lot: http://www.camera-news.com/digipower...as-p-3214.html
    With that you can place the camera on a table, chair, fence etc and though a camera is pricy, it'll really save so much trouble. Also you really do no have any friends, family, coworkers anywhere in near vicinity?

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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Which is why it's good to start collecting money so you can buy a small digital camera and a cheap tiny tripod. Even something like this helps a lot: http://www.camera-news.com/digipower...as-p-3214.html
    With that you can place the camera on a table, chair, fence etc and though a camera is pricy, it'll really save so much trouble. Also you really do no have any friends, family, coworkers anywhere in near vicinity?
    I just recalled that I do have a digital video camera and tripod. I just haven't used it in a while, but it's a good piece of work. That should help. I'll try taking those pictures soon. I just hope I can get the staging right. I was really hoping this wouldn't take so long (my projects ALWAYS take so much longer than they should), but as long as I can get it done, I shouldn't complain.

    Anyway, I want to examine the thumbs I've done (which also took too long) to get a good idea of which pose/angle would work best. The first one is the lying position I surmised upon. Again, the figure is smaller to suggest greater scale of the threat, but what I don't like is that her reaction is no longer a major focal point.

    The second one puts the mirror in the extreme foreground as a silhouette. I also have the figure in a rather neutral position, because I think having it seem as though whatever has happened in the mirror is happening so fast that she doesn't have time to physically react would read better than anything else. I'll be sure to suggest the shock on her face. I think I like this thumb the most, but It would be hard to make it clear that it's a mirror she's facing.

    The third one is a profile view of the situation, and I think I got the leaning position a bit better. I don't know how I can pose for this, though. I have a rope, but I don't know how I'll be able to tie myself to anything without damaging the wall. Hopefully, I can get someone to help...

    Again, thanks for the feedback, everyone!

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  22. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    Anyway, I want to examine the thumbs I've done (which also took too long) to get a good idea of which pose/angle would work best.
    Well, there really aren't that many "thumbs" in there. It would be good to do something around 10-20 thumbs, which are supposed to be quick, small (and possibly bit dirty too) so they won't take too much time to do them.
    http://muddycolors.blogspot.fi/2010/11/thumbnail.html
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aNUIbbrBal...ct-world-6.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0yeCYjMMye...13-TH03a-e.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pdXwleG16i...24-TH02a-e.jpg

    Like is there a reason why you're stuck with the exact same canvas shape to all three images, or why you're drawing the character always from the same angle? And you don't really take the skirt together to the composition/image at all in the pics but depending on what sort of skirt it will be it can have a large presence and you should take what it will look like when her legs aren't visible (because it's crappy to have a pose that becomes totally obscure when the skirt is covering her).

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  24. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Like is there a reason why you're stuck with the exact same canvas shape to all three images, or why you're drawing the character always from the same angle? And you don't really take the skirt together to the composition/image at all in the pics but depending on what sort of skirt it will be it can have a large presence and you should take what it will look like when her legs aren't visible (because it's crappy to have a pose that becomes totally obscure when the skirt is covering her).

    Thanks again. I get what you're saying about the canvas shape, and yeah, I can play around with that. I really wish my scanner would work. I do thumbs so much better on paper than digitally (Maybe I can try my camera...). Anyway, what I don't get is what you're saying about how the character is "always from the same angle". The first one is an overhead view, the second one is 3/4, and the third one is profile. Is there something I'm missing?

    And I kinda see what you mean by the skirt and making sure that it has presence in the piece, but what I don't want is something like this: http://fav.me/d2ectzr in which the gown takes up almost the entire screen. Again, the tendrils will be tearing at the gown, so that should make it a point of interest. I'll try the thumbs again, but in one canvas.

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  25. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycrosD4 View Post
    Anyway, what I don't get is what you're saying about how the character is "always from the same angle". The first one is an overhead view, the second one is 3/4, and the third one is profile. Is there something I'm missing?
    Well, what I meant was that in all your image, we always see her body from about 3/4 angle, even when she's sitting. The viewpoint angle is bit different, but the character's angle isn't (if I'm making sense here). Like when she's sitting, I'd expect to her to turn her chest more towards the mirror, for example.

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