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    e3 2012 rumors and gossip

    I just found out e3 is next week. There have been heavy rumors about next generation consoles in development. It's kind of hard for me to imagine what the games could look like. Since the graphics keep getting better in the currently existing consoles. The biggest limitation appears to be labor, budget and time as far as I know.


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    PS4 and XBox3 are in development, but won't be at this year's E3. But if you want to know what they will look like, just look at high end PCs right now (this is the best we can hope for). Console manufacturing can't afford to keep up with PCs anymore.

    Personally I think console games already look incredible, so any improvements next gen are just icing on the cake for me. That's why I'm most excited for Wii U, at least as far as E3 goes. It's only expected to be slightly more powerful than PS3, but that's good enough for me and I can't wait to see which franchises Nintendo brings to HD. Also really want to know what Retro is working on... can only imagine what a Metroid Prime game with Uncharted 3 level visuals would be like!

    Oh, and Sony is in the process of acquiring a cloud service, which they are expected to announce. So that could be big, though I have my doubts about streaming games.
    Last edited by Ian Barker; May 31st, 2012 at 04:57 AM.

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    I'm really curious about the WiiU. There are so many different rumors about the specs that it's hard to know what to believe. Personally I do really hope Nintendo puts out quite a powerful console. Mostly from a marketing standpoint it would be really beneficial for them if they had a console that could handle all the multiplatform games that come out for other consoles.

    Also really want to know what Retro is working on... can only imagine what a Metroid Prime game with Uncharted 3 level visuals would be like!
    Let's just hope the "Metroid+Starfox teamup" rumor isn't true :/
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    My understanding is that the next gen of consoles will be less about "even better graphics/sound" and more about the capacity for handling new, innovative multiplayer experiences. Like, creating a system that can handle the breakdown of the wall between single player and multiplayer experiences. At least that's a bit of what I'm hearing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobbA View Post
    Let's just hope the "Metroid+Starfox teamup" rumor isn't true :/
    It's not. The guy who started it withdrew that rumor. Thank god.

    I'd put money on Wii U's graphics being just slightly better than PS360. If PS360 is Dreamcast, WiiU is PS2, something like that.

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    I'm hoping the id tech 5 engine gets more play. Sure it loads sloppy as shit and takes two disks to deliver half a game, but it looks so good it's worth it. I'm pretty sure the wii u will have the horsepower to pick up the slack.

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    if its already hard to keep up with so much time and capital needed for current gen graphics whats next?

    Sony and microsoft are just making Nintendo´s life easier if they keep up with that kind of mindset, they are basically tightening a rope around their own necks and competing to see who chokes and dies first. And is not like competitors haven´t already played the Specs card with Nintendo and lost every time.

    I think the bigger studios should start thinking more outside of the box for the next gen, i thinks is either being creative or hit a wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDSart View Post
    Sony and microsoft are just making Nintendo´s life easier if they keep up with that kind of mindset, they are basically tightening a rope around their own necks and competing to see who chokes and dies first. And is not like competitors haven´t already played the Specs card with Nintendo and lost every time.
    Not to mention, the last two generations (3 if you count handhelds), the weakest systems have sold dramatically better. PS2, DS and Wii are the best selling systems of all time, and are all much weaker than their competition.

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    I don't mind if microsoft and sony take the time to do it right. Sure nintendo has the jump, but the dreamcast pulled the same move and you know how that turned out. In the end it's all about the games and the wii is moving on because nobody is developing decent wii titles.

    I just hope the speculation of eliminating used and rented games is also false. Because all of my games are either used, traded or borrowed. I'm not going to spend 60 bucks on a video game if I can't trade or sell it back. Some times I'll buy a game play it and return it because I don't like it, which makes me more confident to take a chance on a game I would think twice about.

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    I buy maybe one new full price game a year. I do think that if any of the companies drop used support, the companies that decides to keep used games support will have a huge edge, so I'm not too worried about that. What I am worried about is how companies will find new ways to nickle and dime... for example nowadays if you buy a used game you often have to pay 10 bucks for a code to play it online.

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    It's going that way already IMO. Look at how there are no differences between a digital download of a game vs buying a physical disc copy with a fancy box on your shelf.

    I don't mind companies making money, that's good business....but if the money is not spread to the creative talent that works on the game and just provides more padding for investors and CEOs getting bonuses...then ugh.

    I also have a hard time justifying the prices for these 60 dollar games, but I make the choice not to buy a lot of games and stick with older ones. I had bought a PS2 a couple years ago because finally 50 bucks for a system, I can get a lot of the older games (and not have to hear all the hype and spoilers) for five bucks or less while 20 is my max... (Unless it's Madden which sits in the 99 cent rack and floods the market of used games D: )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    There have been heavy rumors about next generation consoles in development. It's kind of hard for me to imagine what the games could look like. Since the graphics keep getting better in the currently existing consoles.
    I'm pretty sure that neither Sony nor Microsoft is going to show any new consoles this year, but Epic is going to be demoing their next-gen Unreal Engine 4 at the show. Wired dropped a few images and tidbits about that in their recent issue (that article is viewable HERE), and I'm really excited to see it in motion.

    I'm also most exited to hear more about the finalized Wii U hardware and see what Nintendo has been cooking up for it (especially Retro Studios). Valve is my other favourite developer and they already said that they don't intend to announce anything new at the show. Slightly disappointing, but not exactly surprising.


    Quote Originally Posted by JDSart View Post
    if its already hard to keep up with so much time and capital needed for current gen graphics whats next?
    Maybe I'm wrong (I'm not exactly part of the industry), but I don't think the generational jump will be as expensive for software developers as a lot of people seem to believe. Not initially, anyway. A game of current-gen or slightly better quality would be cheaper to develop on a next-gen system because less time and effort would have to go into optimization. If you simply compress the textures and models less, you get better graphics with no additional effort. Sure, things may slowly get more expensive to accommodate for more effects and fancy simulations as the generation goes on, but the tools will advance as well and I don't think anyone is going to try and make a game that they know they won't be able to afford. Especially with all of the recent indie successes proving that a game doesn't have to be expensive to sell well.

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    Last time around doom 3 was the first sign of "next gen" It required $500 in upgrades and it is completely sub-par now.

    There was also half life 2
    Last edited by Raoul Duke; June 1st, 2012 at 02:53 AM.

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    Yea, eventually we wont be able to distinguish a game from a movie, and a movie from real life. It will be like watching actors on a stage. As long as games like BF and Call of duty make so much money they will continue to push the boundaries. That wont stop indie gaming or smaller games from getting made or being popular though, they'll just use the tech innovations that the big boys used to use. Thats the way its always been.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    Yea, eventually we wont be able to distinguish a game from a movie, and a movie from real life. It will be like watching actors on a stage. As long as games like BF and Call of duty make so much money they will continue to push the boundaries. That wont stop indie gaming or smaller games from getting made or being popular though, they'll just use the tech innovations that the big boys used to use. Thats the way its always been.
    No game studio will ever have enough money to look like Avatar, let alone real life. Even Call of Duty at its peak is not even close to making that much money (and like all franchises that will die out... well all franchises but Mario I guess). The technology doesn't just make models and animations and code and so on for you; you have to pay hundreds of people for thousands of hours of work. The hardcore market isn't big enough, and the casual market doesn't care. On the other hand, everyone wants to see a good movie, so the budget can go higher.

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    I know movie assets don't work as game assets. Allot of that stuff is completely broken in areas hidden from the shot. They also have the ability to touch things up with after effects. Plus complex materials and rigs would make for some unreasonable glitches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Barker View Post
    No game studio will ever have enough money to look like Avatar, let alone real life. Even Call of Duty at its peak is not even close to making that much money (and like all franchises that will die out... well all franchises but Mario I guess). The technology doesn't just make models and animations and code and so on for you; you have to pay hundreds of people for thousands of hours of work. The hardcore market isn't big enough, and the casual market doesn't care. On the other hand, everyone wants to see a good movie, so the budget can go higher.
    Dude, no one would have believed that the current video games were even possible to make 15 years ago. Or go in to space. Or fly. Or cross the Atlantic. Or a PC in every home. Or Smart Phones. Or Augmented Reality. See what I'm getting at? No-one can predict what is going to be available in the future tech/software wise. Its all possible.
    Last edited by timpaatkins; June 1st, 2012 at 10:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    Dude, no one would have believed that the current video games were even possible to make 15 years ago. Or go in to space. Or fly. Or cross the Atlantic. Or a PC in every home. Or Smart Phones. Or Augmented Reality. See what I'm getting at? No-one can predict what is going to be available in the future tech/software wise. Its all possible.
    well yeah, except we conquered space in 1961 and by today most space programs are iirc either de-prioritized or canceled completely due to high expenses and lack of funding.
    we don't know if there would be any interest in conventional console/PC gaming in next 10 years, and will it stay profitable enough to develop new systems or not.

    I can see how it's gonna spread around on portable devices, but I don't really see a point of squeezing realtime avatar CG into 10" screen.

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    I think that both the PS3 and the X360 don't need a replacement with their graphical capabilities. Plus, while there are a few games worth checking out on digital distribution services; I prefer a physical release.
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    Basically software companies don't see you as buying their product but leasing it - since a physical disc made it more like ownership, I'm quite sure digital downloads make it easier to make their leasing ideology a reality.

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    Recently most of the talk about games is just about DRMs, dlc, online payfor this and that, and generally methods for the companies to squeeze the bucks rather than gaming itself which is kinda lame. Just want to see what new things are in store for the next cicle.

    Though i probably can´t expect to be much of a part of the next gen anyways , my only console is the pc and its just feels silly now trying to keep up with the specs. I´d just prefer to buy a console and save the hassle, just don´t know with who´s money

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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    Dude, no one would have believed that the current video games were even possible to make 15 years ago. Or go in to space. Or fly. Or cross the Atlantic. Or a PC in every home. Or Smart Phones. Or Augmented Reality. See what I'm getting at? No-one can predict what is going to be available in the future tech/software wise. Its all possible.
    Who knows, you may be right. Short of an unprecedented breakthrough though, it won't happened anytime soon.

    Though i probably can´t expect to be much of a part of the next gen anyways , my only console is the pc and its just feels silly now trying to keep up with the specs. I´d just prefer to buy a console and save the hassle, just don´t know with who´s money
    I would expect the next consoles to have a long life cycle, and possibly be the last generation of consoles as we know them. Current gen has lasted about 8 years, and the next one will likely be longer. Not only can companies not afford it, but diminishing returns on graphics will make it less necessary. So I don't think people will need to update their consoles again in a long time after this. I could be wrong though, obvs.

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    like most rumors around this time of year, i don't believe this:
    http://www.i4u.com/50742/xbox-smart-...ll-kill-wii-u?
    but i do believe something like it could happen, and if it does, i fear for wiiu. if xbox3 has better graphics, better online, better 3rd party games (which is pretty much a guarantee) kinect and a tablet, wiiu's only advantages will be price and a head start. nintendo really needs to go all out releasing great games and getting 3rd party developers on board before the looming XB3 and PS4 hit.

    that said there are lots of positive rumors about nintendo's games to be announced. i won't list them because again they're probably not true, but nintendo is hardly helpless.
    Last edited by Ian Barker; June 1st, 2012 at 05:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikken View Post
    well yeah, except we conquered space in 1961 and by today most space programs are iirc either de-prioritized or canceled completely due to high expenses and lack of funding.
    we don't know if there would be any interest in conventional console/PC gaming in next 10 years, and will it stay profitable enough to develop new systems or not.

    I can see how it's gonna spread around on portable devices, but I don't really see a point of squeezing realtime avatar CG into 10" screen.
    So you did miss my point... I wasnt arguing about the sustainability of the space program, my point was that things that many people deemed impossible at one time or another became reality at one point in time. People dreamed of space flight for hundreds of years before it happened.

    And of course it wont happen for the next gen consoles, I dont know WHEN its going to happen, thats why I wrote "eventually"...
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    Yeah I think it's approaching a point where the consoles will have "UNLIMITED POWER!!!!" so they won't be concerned about conserving disk space anymore and they will only be limited to budget and time. It could be the "next next" console up to bat.

    I heard valve has plans for that. They might be making a console where they just send out specs to hardware manufacturers, like the google android business model. The games would be download only though. Luckily valve has a grasp on what games are actually worth.

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    Current console generation is actually pretty restrictive,
    most games don't render at a very high res and rely on AA to try and look good on 1080P TVs, have pretty sad draw distances and most of the lighting and model detail is baked onto a texture.

    I believe the next generation should alleviate some of these problems but I think we need some big revolutions in real time lighting and file compression (don't want to be downloading 50GB games) if we are to go any further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Barker View Post

    I would expect the next consoles to have a long life cycle, and possibly be the last generation of consoles as we know them. Current gen has lasted about 8 years, and the next one will likely be longer. Not only can companies not afford it, but diminishing returns on graphics will make it less necessary. So I don't think people will need to update their consoles again in a long time after this. I could be wrong though, obvs.
    Right now i too think the ground is at least more stable,or at least is seems so, even with Nintendo raping Sony and Microsoft in sales they are still both very much alive and kicking and theres growing profit to be had.

    But is all relative indeed, the last console i bought was the very promising Dreamcast, and that sure gave a 180 pretty quickly.

    Good videocards alone are selling for more than what a PS3 costs, i would just buy one with an HD TV to play for less than what a good gaming pc would cost. A PS4 or the next Xbox probably still be cheaper than a powerfull gaming pc.

    Things like Kickstarter, indie games, etc are all bringing some awesome possibilities, Psychonauts 2? how awesome is that? Is the creative people, original concepts and ideas getting new ways to get to the public what its reallly keeping me excited and hoping the mainstream ups teh creativity too.

    And in terms of graphics, theres sure room for more textures and lighting and all kinds of technical stuff but i´d still trade all that for maybe fluid animations, better character expresions and so on, just getting as far of the uncanny valley as possible. I also would prefer a game would takes time to make because of the complex and unique art direction rather than them trying to make the grass look more realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timpaatkins View Post
    So you did miss my point... I wasnt arguing about the sustainability of the space program, my point was that things that many people deemed impossible at one time or another became reality at one point in time. People dreamed of space flight for hundreds of years before it happened.

    And of course it wont happen for the next gen consoles, I dont know WHEN its going to happen, thats why I wrote "eventually"...
    I remain very doubtful about anyone funding a realtime avatar-level project.
    Tech will be there at some point (unless there's another another technical bottleneck coming sometime, like with CPUs stuck at 4 Ghz and not going up), but I can't see any company spending 5 or more years to build a potential financial flop, that will require tonns of manpower and creative input.
    Fancy effects, cute shaders, bokeh and better lighting will contribute to a more cinematographic look and feel.
    Pushing a theater quality picture outside of cg cuts? I can't see that coming.

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    I think people forget some reasons why mobile market has picked up so much. The mobility factor. Now a days people are out somewhere not always at the house. Or they are at the house and someone is using the TV. I think that's why the Wii U developed a way to solve the problem (though I'm scared of the costs that might be involved, since you can't just buy another tablet for that system)

    So people can settle for watching something on their smartphone, or playing a simple game that allows some socializing like Words with Friends. The thing though about a smartphone and why portables need to catch up is that people are only willing to carry a certain amount of portable devices. If I remember correctly on average it will be 2. So a person is less likely to carry a handheld if they have their phone and an mp3 player.

    Another reason I got out of newer games is while they're bothering to make things more real, a problem that comes up is that the camera angles just make me nauseated. So I can't really get into a game if it's making me sick at the same time. It's still a problem with most 3D games. It's another reason why I stick with older games because of side scrolling platformers that don't give me this problem or RPGs. Making it more realistic doesn't make it necessarily enjoyable.

    Did anyone notice Jason Chan has a kickstarter project btw for Zombie Playground? http://jasonchanart.blogspot.com/201...ckstarter.html

    Although I am conflicted, one part of me is tired of so many sequels, and others get excited when a new version comes out. I think one reason I don't mind Legend of Zelda is that it's something of a new story each time involving the characters, where you have sequels to another FPS. While I know people felt hosed at the ending of Mass Effect 3, at least it was set to be a trilogy. I don't mind sequels that expand upon a story or universe, than just having a sequel that has better graphics again or an updated roster. Though, I'm guilty for playing all of the Civilization games

    But yeah when the "new" games announced were mostly a IV, II etc... I just kinda went meh...

    I have been enjoying the humble bundles coming out though http://www.humblebundle.com it's one of those business models that make me feel a bit of good with the development of games and more positive feelings towards companies that develop them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
    Yeah I think it's approaching a point where the consoles will have "UNLIMITED POWER!!!!" so they won't be concerned about conserving disk space anymore and they will only be limited to budget and time. It could be the "next next" console up to bat.

    I heard valve has plans for that. They might be making a console where they just send out specs to hardware manufacturers, like the google android business model. The games would be download only though. Luckily valve has a grasp on what games are actually worth.
    I was sitting on the toilet the other day thinking back to when you knew a game was epic and long on PSX because it had many discs. "What's this.... Legend.... of Dragoon..... it has 4 discs good lord this game must be really long!"

    Now they can fit all these ridiculous games in a single disc. They're reaching a point they'll never run out of space. I remember reading on bluray where they're could multilayer discs at some point fitting up to maybe 200gb or more. Most everyday computers don't even have that.... all in a single disc.



    Edit: Scratch that. I know nothing about blu ray but read an article in 2008 of a disc that already has 400gb.

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