Have I been going about things wrong?

Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop
Results 1 to 26 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Have I been going about things wrong?

    I usually get alot of questions from people who see me draw manga and anime which I kinda hate now and they ask how I learned. Id say by looking at shit but then Id turn them on to Andrew Loomis, the method I never used until now.

    Well last night a group of friends of mine who have weekly art competitions were talking about how to improve the facebook group. I suggested livestream and studying together and helping others get better by studying together.

    Now stuff goes bad when I suggest we all study Loomis and his literature im bashed and told that theyd never want to do it because they have there own style and there above Loomis and who is he they never heard of him if hes so great. I said he teaches basics they say They know them. Mind you they draw anime and manga. They also said you could just youtube whatever you wanted to know. I said there not legit they dont teach basics.

    Have I been going wrong by telling everyone to study Loomis ifthey wish to get better?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    295
    Thanks
    99
    Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    There are plenty of other things to do to get better than studying from Loomis books.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Im aware of that. I simply suggested Loomis as we all are beginners rather they think so or not. They believe the key to becoming a great artist is to youtube "HOW TO DRAW GOKU" and what not. They lack basics. Which is why if we were going to make a group for people I thought it would be nice if we all reset our skills.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,068
    Thanks
    992
    Thanked 2,165 Times in 753 Posts
    Follows
    1
    Following
    0
    There are friends, and then there are art friends.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Noah Bradley For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I thought these people were art friends I guess I was wrong.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,789
    Thanks
    2,702
    Thanked 5,971 Times in 2,405 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You just have to realize there are a lot of stupid people in the world who will never amount to anything. Surround yourself with people better than you and you will always grow as an artist. Leave the dead wood behind, it will just pull you down.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  10. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    When I said I would leave they said I was putting them down. I said I simply couldnt grow if I stayed. But I totally get what you mean.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Xros For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,001
    Thanks
    891
    Thanked 1,009 Times in 538 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Peoples opinions and views on things change over time, usually when they learn something. Those who don't learn never change really. I can't say how many times my opinions changed on this site about.... well...... everything.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I understand I just dont see how somone could be so full of themself to say such things as I already know the basics yet your art does not show it. They ten to call inaccurate proportions and things "style". Iwish someone with legit skills would tell them there being stupid.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Dude...don't waste any more time or energy on them or worry about being able to say "See!" Told you!". Just find people more in tune with what you want to be learning. You'll never understand why someone else is an idiot...just do your best not to be one.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  16. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thank you. Its just really hard to find people in tune with me. Other than on here.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,905 Times in 2,546 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Search on SketchCrawl....they have monthly gatherings to go out and sketch - probably one in your area. There are artists every-frickin-where...just look a bit harder.

    Whispered legends even speak of one at the center of the art universe...in Idaho. So if there's one in Idaho...there's one in your neck of the woods.

    Last edited by JeffX99; May 31st, 2012 at 05:32 PM.
    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  19. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    If you feel an obligation to help them, maybe you can try going on Deviantart (a site they may be very familiar with), find a great manga artist or some other kind of artist with very stylized work and show them the life drawing/anatomy/perspective/etc exercises that artist has up (I've definitely seen some), or one of those show your improvement memes where the artist talks about how their work evolved significantly when they incorporated life drawing or worked on their basic art skills (I've definitely seen that), and since they would trust and look up to a great/popular manga artist they may change their mind.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to lapprenti For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Jeff your right I just gotta look harder.
    Lapp I think Rogie Custudio would be good choice but then again theyll play it down to nothing but style. Hell they even said a pro couldnt tell them they were wrong. Maybe I try to hard to help people.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ah, well in that case just hope that they mature sooner rather than later and move on like people have said Good luck with your art studies

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    HELLsinki, Finland
    Posts
    4,860
    Thanks
    345
    Thanked 2,689 Times in 1,646 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Xros View Post
    I understand I just dont see how somone could be so full of themself to say such things as I already know the basics yet your art does not show it.
    Then again...
    Quote Originally Posted by Xros View Post
    When you draw a major piece do you use guidelines and erase or sketch and draw over it? I feel like its tacky and newbie.
    JUST SAYIN'.

    As for the actual problem I can't say much other than what has been said and that you can lead the horse to water but can't force it to drink. It's not your loss if your friends don't want to study and all I can say that keep improving on your own. Maybe at some point they notice that they too want to get better, especially since you didn't specify what age your friends are. If you're all 16 years old, then the attitude shown is not surprising and they have plenty of time to grow up and think whether they even wish to improve or not.
    Trying to "force" them to improve or see the quality in Loomis books will only cause headache for both parties and at worst just give negative feelings of Loomis/anatomy/etc books to them, making sure they will avoid it in the future too.

    Now put up your own Sketchbook in here and get crackin'.

    Last edited by TinyBird; May 31st, 2012 at 02:20 AM.
    "I eat comics and poop stylization"
    Comic!
    Sketchbook (Critiques, no compliments please.)
    Tumblr
    Website
    Livejournal
    DeviantArt
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    163
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    growing up from around 7 or 8 (im 25 now) i was submersed in anime. my cousin showed me akira, ghost in the shell, vampire hunter d, and fist of the north and it blew my mind..

    these were like real adult movies but drawn, even as a child i understood that and i knew its what i wanted to do. growing up i drew and studied manga and it wasnt until i was about 20 did i realize you have to learn to really "see" and draw form as it actually exist before you gain the ability to truly change and warp it to your taste..

    a lesson i wish i knew much sooner than i learned it.

    im studying pretty much all of burne hogarths books (which ive had access to for about 3 years even while doing these serious studies) and while they are always so highly recommended i never "liked" them because while i respected his understanding of life, i didnt like the way hes shapes were so rounded and traditional.

    it wasnt until about a month half ago that i truly learned that the point isnt force you to draw like he draws or make all your pictures rounded looking, but that hes making all form its most simple so that you can understand that once you master light and shadow on basic form...thats it. you can begin to draw anything you can imagine.

    ive been studying about 8 hours a day for the last month half incorporating the fundamentals and basics into my work and ive had honestly about 6 years worth of artistic epiphanies in just under 2 months. as i went back and really re learned how to see in its most basic form my eye is starting to catch up extremely rapidly with the technical level ive acquired from drawing for like 20 years.

    your friends might not be quiet there yet, and if they are really your friends and you guys are all serious about drawing you should try to get them to understand its not about changing your style, but teaching you how push your style to its peek. and if they arent ready to hear that yet then a year or 2 from now when youre doing work far beyond theirs then they will finally listen.

    sorry i wrote alot but this is a super personal topic to me, and one of the greatest personal struggles i wish i knew 10 years ago.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Meh, sounds like clueless teenagers being clueless. They'll either wise up eventually or they'll never get anywhere, in which case you might be leaving them behind anyway...

    A lot of kids go through a similar "I know better than any teacher, you can't tell me what to do, it's my styyyyyle" phase... If they ever get as far as art school, they usually have that attitude knocked out of them in the first semester.

    Just for laughs, you could encourage them to start posting in the critique center here. It might open their eyes a bit. (Or they'll whine about "style" and leave in a huff... But if they do, that's their problem.)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  27. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,715
    Thanks
    2,946
    Thanked 1,821 Times in 938 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Just for laughs, you could encourage them to start posting in the critique center here. It might open their eyes a bit. (Or they'll whine about "style" and leave in a huff... But if they do, that's their problem.)
    Please do this thing.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Star Eater For This Useful Post:


  29. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kansas city, MO
    Posts
    1,167
    Thanks
    1,423
    Thanked 867 Times in 333 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    If you're drawing manga, you're probably ignoring most of what Loomis taught anyway.

    Jay's CA.org Sketchbook:
    Jay's Conceptart.org sketchbook

    Check out my portfolio:
    http://jasonrossart.carbonmade.com

    Check out my blog:
    http://mind2pixels.blogspot.com

    "Practice" DOES NOT make perfect...
    "Perfect Practice" makes perfect...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  30. #21
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,180
    Thanks
    752
    Thanked 2,357 Times in 1,211 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well, sometimes you have to ask yourself whether you'd rather be right or whether you'd rather have people to hang out with. Sometimes the overall group dynamic is good and you just put up with the stuff you disagree on (...or argue about it loudly, now that I think back to the last five pub nights we had...). Sometimes it's obvious that you're just not going to fit in and you should cut and run.

    Either way, your improvement doesn't have to be dependent on your friends' improvement.

    *** Sketchbook * Landscapes * Portfolio * Store***

    "There are two kinds of students: the self-taught and the hopeless."
    - Dr. Piotr Rudnicki
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,341
    Thanks
    283
    Thanked 1,343 Times in 473 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Meh, sounds like clueless teenagers being clueless.
    This entirely.
    Also sounds like the OP might actually be having a breakthrough that drawing Naruto all day may not be the best time spent. If the friends haven't had the breakthrough yet, then so be it.

    Plenty of artists have and will continue to learn their craft as solo artists.

    You really don't need a "study group". It can be fun, it can be educational if it's the right people, but you definitely don't need it.

    You also don't need to be a dick about it, too. Offer up ideas, but if the group isn't a fit for you, then just politely say you aren't interested in being a part of it. Why create strife?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  32. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dusty For This Useful Post:


  33. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well I get what the general idea is I guess.
    Its not that I was trying to be a dick it was me just saying I cant get with the idea of us teaching people in our style of drawing if its flawed. They continued to answer that its there style and Loomis is a nobody and his way is not the only way to learn.
    They wont show there work here they know what will happen but I do have there DA accounts if youd like to see.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  34. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dearborn, MI
    Posts
    77
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 32 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Xros View Post
    Well I get what the general idea is I guess.
    Its not that I was trying to be a dick it was me just saying I cant get with the idea of us teaching people in our style of drawing if its flawed. They continued to answer that its there style and Loomis is a nobody and his way is not the only way to learn.
    They wont show there work here they know what will happen but I do have there DA accounts if youd like to see.
    Well if they really want to draw in anime style and not learn from life, then it's their choice. If they're just hobbyists, then whatever, no real harm. If they want to be professionals, they're going to learn sooner or later that they need to study anatomy, even without your influence. Let 'em learn the hard way.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  35. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 60 Times in 43 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Anime is for most people something you are starting out with, because of the fact you can youtube it. Talking about style is easy, recognizing style is ok, but recognizing your own style and recognizing your quality in an image is a process that will take you years.

    I thought I knew: untill I started art-school, and yes kiddo`s screaming and ignoring the teachers have all dropped out by the time the third semester started, still saying that that school is not suited for them. They are just not willing and open enough to learn.

    A situation that recently happened in auditions in my school:
    Teacher sits in the hall to check out portfolios for people who might want to apply for art school.
    Girl comes into the school, being very social even though shes never been there talking with students, she talks pretty big and I`m actually quite impressed and thinking that she must be awesome.
    Girl shows the portfolio to my teacher. sadly these are all anime drawings and most of them straightly traced google images.
    Teacher says: funny drawings... that`s pokemon..... or something.... right?

    Girl went home, probably to pick up some loomis..

    Loomis is about fundamentals, which are essential, you cannot create your own style without knowing what you are doing.

    If you are proud of what you did yesterday,
    you haven`t done today


    CA Sketchbook!SKETCHBOOK
    Blog (my adventures): TUMBLR
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. #26
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Uhm, I don't mean to be rude or anything of the like. But, as far as learning the basics goes, if you only draw manga, you will never become a well rounded artist.
    Manga is a very stylized form of art, just like regular american comics. I absolutely love both, and I'm a total geek for the work done in the golden age of comics in America. However, as with any stylized form, it tends to be extremely repetitive and in the end, limiting. For instance, these styles only make use of a very primitive lighting, going only from extreme light to extreme darkness. Little to none is ever done to describe the turn of forms with subtle gradations of tone. Virtually all of the forms in those styles are done instead with outlines, which almost never ocurr in nature, and forming this habit will only harm your career. The same goes for anatomy, the famous American icon, Jim Lee, outright advices to NOT copy the anatomy from his drawings, as he simply exagerates and even invents his own muscles as he goes. He, of course is able to do this, because he thoroughly studied the George Bridgeman books to heart, untill he felt comfortable altering reality to his will. As far as Manga goes, anatomy is ignored all together. The chemistry and proper use of colors is another thing you will never properly learn from manga. Just learn from life!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Members who have read this thread: 3

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook