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  1. #1
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    The Avengers - spoiler warning, dont read if you want to go see it

    So, what worked for you, what didnt, what was your fave part, who was your fave character, etc etc etc.

    I liked:

    -The simple comprehensible story that I could actually follow
    -The impressive way they managed to give everyone lots of cool screen time and fun lines and not miss anyone out to bad
    -The creepy SEELE style world rulers, complete with monoliths
    -The gathering the team section
    -The bickering
    -The actually vaguely beleivable superscience
    -Ironman
    -Johanssen
    -The Shield flying aircraft carrier base
    -Stark Tower
    -The music
    -Sam Jackson chewing scenery
    -The Hulk smashing scenery
    -The Hulk smashing Loki up like a stuffed toy
    -Agent Phil
    -The Thankyou Avengers grafitti
    -The prospect of a sequel with the complete team in place.

    I didnt like
    -Loki was a bit low key
    -The badguy army: who were they, why did they care, why didnt they seem to have any kind of global plan, apart from blowing up lots of Acuras and yellow cabs in Lower Manhatten
    -New York is really played out as a location
    -The big fish monster was a big duff
    -Some of the rubble falling down the skyscrapers into the street scenes were a bit too 911 for my taste
    -The Hulk being able to think straight when everyone knows he cant do that.
    -No Portmans tummy visible at any point
    -Pepper Pots being sidelined a bit
    -Why didnt the bad guys know how to stop a nuclear missile?
    -Why did all the robot guys die instantly as soon as the nuke went off? Lonely hearts?

    Apart form that minor nitpicking it all seemed to hang together really well and I enjoyed it a lot!
    thoughts?
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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    -The badguy army: who were they, why did they care, why didnt they seem to have any kind of global plan, apart from blowing up lots of Acuras and yellow cabs in Lower Manhatten
    -The Hulk being able to think straight when everyone knows he cant do that.
    -Why didnt the bad guys know how to stop a nuclear missile?
    -Why did all the robot guys die instantly as soon as the nuke went off?
    Well, I personally didn't mind these, since what I got from the movie (as I have no knowledge of these guys from comics) was that these aliens only attacked on weak planets and assumed that there would be like zero to minimum resistance (as I guess they had got their info about humans from Loki) so they probably hadn't prepared for a sudden random missile to attack their outer-space mothership, and their war tactic probably was "shock and awe", just blow shit up and let Loki prance around working on the "worship me or you all will die" stuff.
    Also the giant monsters were shown to be electric/cyborgs which suggests that they were kinda like some sort of cyborg hive-mind drones and when the command center was destroyed they died too (which is probably why they attacked weak planets so that this wouldn't happen).

    Also yeah, actually Hulk can be reasoned with when he's not totally ragey from being hurt etc (it was established in the Incredible Hulk movie) and that was basically how he was all through the original comics (even more actually), until it was changed in more modern comics and now it kinda fluctuates.
    But yeah I can agree it could have done with bit more explanation with these but of what I have heard there was like an hour of film cut and it still was really long so, time constraints I guess.

    On my own nitpics, maybe I personally would have cut one or two jokes from the movie, occasionally it felt like it played some of the stuff that was supposed to be serious as funny (like when Iron Man is caught in the turbine) which was bit irritating on my opinion, even though I still loved the humor.
    On the same note I didn't really appreciate that Loki got a "Butt Monkey" moment from almost all of the main/side-characters (except maybe from Thor and Banner), especially towards the end which really ate his "respectability" (for the lack of a better word that I can't come up with) as a villain. I can see why they probably did it (to show that he is more of a kid given too much power and a total n00b when it comes to villainy) but still...
    And on a SUPER-NITPICK maybe the theme music could have been bit less repetitive during the credits.

    I liked most of the other stuff, but I really like the new Bruce Banner actor, he's maybe my favorite thus far and the fact that they didn't push the potential Black Widow-Hawkeye romance. Like it was hinted that they care of each other but seriously I don't go to a superhero movie to see people kissing so thank god for that. Also Black Widow herself was a really positive surprise for me, all the previous looks of her in the trailers and such so clearly indicated to the "Hollywood syndrome woman of T&A but no character or she's the designated love-interest" so I was totally in awe.
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  5. #3
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    I also liked Mark Ruffalo. In Ultimate (specially the animated movie) I hated that version of Banner. He came off more as a creeper than a scientist.

    I don't mind the nervous guy routine, but the fact they remembered he was a genius makes me happy. It's just that usually one part of it was overplayed and they forget the other side of Banner.

    I also liked that they continued the Pepper/Stark romance. It made it part of "daily life of a superhero" Also the VERY end scene was a nice touch on that was well. Also Black Widow was a much more entertaining character and not just a pretty face, unlike how they cast Berry for Storm. I will say there was a bit much focus on her butt though, even the movie posters

    I also feel that the bad buys weren't so convincing, but they still made that work...where other movies this could fail spectacularly

    But yeah, Hulk can reason. there was that whole Planet Hulk thing and before then you had the Grey Hulk phase etc... However, since the Hulk is rather...sensitive...it's not an ideal form to be in.

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  7. #4
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    Good posts you guys you reminded me of stuff I hadnt mentioned;

    Black Widow was cool, in fact she was probably the most professional and together of all of them.

    I defer to your knowledge on the Hulk, Im no comic book reader so I just thought once he Hulked out that was it, he was a force of nature and there was no reasoning.

    I liked Ruffalo too.

    I thought that Hawkeye guy was going to be a weak link, i mean his powers are hes athletic, a trained killer and shoots arrows. Pretty weak compered to the super guys. But he held his own ok.

    He was good in the new Mission Impossible flick (which is actually really good by the way, I thought.)

    I agree it wasnt as good as Iron Man.
    Re iron man banging about in that engine, i TOTALLY get what you mean when a film awkwardly lurches from serious to misjudged comic relief (the 5th Element is full of this, but just about gets away with it because its so crazy... The Star Wars prequels flip between horrid violence and wierd slapstick so often I dont even know what the fuck is going on. aaaanyway) One of the things I like about Iron Man is hes always kind of ridiculous. Like, he wants to be super cool, and really he is, but hes also silly and its funny seeing him smash into stuff. Iron Man (the movie) juggled comedy and action really well, and it wasnt tooo bad in The Avengers. I thought anyway.

    Yeah I can forgive the lame badguys, this is a movie for kids so Ill give it a pass.
    That wont stop me pissing and moaning about it though!
    I just think one time itd be a good twist if they blew up the mothership and the badguys carried on unbothered. I mean, cant hyperintelligent aliens build in some form of redundancy or autonomous intelligence into their.. whatever they were. Magic demon robot things. (moan moan grumble grumble)
    Id just prefer it if rather than a faceless evil force, I understood why some space demons would care about Earth anyway. And ok the soldiers are disposable, but wouldnt it be nice to invest some personality in them?
    Even Stormtroopers talked to eachother, and you felt a bit sorry for them when they blew up.
    Im also super bored of big snaktopus things flying around american city centres smashing up skyscrapers too. At least Independence Day had the spectacular super slowmo shockwave scenes. And 911 had good explosion effects. That big snake thing was in the trailer and youre like, i fucking hope that isnt the big monster boss. But it was. Sad face.


    One of the reasons I didnt like Loki much was because he didnt have much of an arc. I mean, he starts off having been defeated and so really angry and evil, and by the end he was angry and evil and just got defeated.
    It reminded me a lot of the new Star Trek in that respect, a very forgettable villain driven by nothing but petty revenge and lust for power. Booooooringgggggg.

    The others all disliked eachother early on but after a while they came to rely on eachother and became friends, like real people, and so grew as characters. Ok he's a god, so hes done most of his developing prior to the movie, but Thor changed a lot, as he himself acknowledges.


    Also Loki is The Trickster God. Not some femmy noob.
    He pops up everywhere in many cultures (Renard the Fox, Brer Rabbit, Bugs Bunny, Ananse, The Joker, etc etc) in varying states of tune.
    As Terry Pratchett says, this guy does have a sense of humour, its just hes got the sort of sense of humour that thinks putting a landmine under seomeones cushion is hilarious.
    Loki was pretty unfunny through out. His plan was kind of lame and had no overarching ironic or nihilistic humour that couldve added some zing. I thought the Joker in The Dark Knight was a much better embodiment of the Loki character. But then The Joker is probably my favourite character after Superman in this whole genre.

    Still, overall for a family movie, i still think it was largely a success and great fun and Im looking forward to more.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; May 17th, 2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I defer to your knowledge on the Hulk, Im no comic book reader so I just thought once he Hulked out that was it, he was a force of nature and there was no reasoning.
    Well, it was also shown more in the prior movie (though yeah, if you're not a Hulk fan I can understand if you skipped that one, I think quite a few did) where he could take pretty clear goals (saving Betty) and come up with strategies to win, and was totally okay with Betty. Of course those were really simple goals and such, but yeah.
    Actually that is something I have missed a bit with the movies, in the early comics the whole thing was almost literally about Hulk, and he was the Hulk around 70-90% of every issue, could talk and helped people (of course it usually went to crap). Now it's pretty much always mostly 80% Banner and 20% Hulk fighting and though I get why it's done like that yeah I'm still going to whine about it.
    I do recall pretty fondly that the old 90's cartoon had a much better balance with the character(s).

    And ok the soldiers are disposable, but wouldnt it be nice to invest some personality in them?
    I think that movie would have overloaded from sheer personality by then!
    Yeah, I would hope that now that all the characters have been gotten together, the next movie can concentrate more on the story and villains.

    One of the reasons I didnt like Loki much was because he didnt have much of an arc.
    Also Loki is The Trickster God. Not some femmy noob.
    As Terry Pratchett says, this guy does have a sense of humour, its just hes got the sort of sense of humour that thinks putting a landmine under someones cushion is hilarious.
    Loki was pretty unfunny through out. His plan was kind of lame and had no overarching ironic or nihilistic humour that couldve added some zing.
    Yeah, that bothered me too a bit, especially when he was the butt of the main character's jokes almost constantly. Though the Marvel Loki has been a lot less about just humor and mischief and more angsty and bitter (though at least his plans were a lot more elaborate), I too would have wanted to see more. (Though I liked the little moment when he talked about sentimentality and shed a tear.)
    Actually I would have wanted to see more of his "downfall" even in Thor, in that it was bit hard for me to get exactly how Odin had treated him worse than Thor as none of that had ever been show (time constraints again I guess). I mean I would hope that his anger isn't all just sibling rivalry in his head, and the transition of "I never wanted the throne" from Thor to "you were made to be ruled" of Avengers felt bit empty because we never saw what happened to him while he was wherever.
    Though since he will appear again, maybe we'll see his evolution into actually awesome villain (and the actor has said that Loki's horns will grow larger as he grows to be more bitter and angry ).

    And now I feel compelled into showing what the "prince of evil" used to do:
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  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I thought that Hawkeye guy was going to be a weak link, i mean his powers are hes athletic, a trained killer and shoots arrows. Pretty weak compered to the super guys. But he held his own ok.
    What about Black Widow? Her powers basically include sneaking up on people, speaking Russian, and shooting guns. Neither of them seemed to be effective against the aliens in hand-to-hand combat, so both were reliant on man-made projectiles for long range attacks and were useless when they ran out. And can anyone explain to me what the point was of her jumping onto one of those flying vehicles in the last battle? She didn't shoot anyone up there, she didn't gain new information, I don't think she even killed the alien driving the thing. I personally felt both Black Widow and Hawkeye could have been cut out of the movie completely, but they needed a female to break up the all-male environment and they wanted some kind of romance in there, even if it was subtle.

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  12. #7
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    I agree, her super powers were she had two guns, but it would have been way too gay without her, so at least she was necessary from a marketing if not plot point of view.
    Her jumping onto the vehicle seemed there just to keep her in the action, although youde think her puny arms wouldve got ripped out when she connected with the hoverbike thing.

    "and the transition of "I never wanted the throne" from Thor to "you were made to betle ruled" of Avengers felt bit empty because we never saw what happened to him while he was wherever"

    Indeed.
    Although his Made to be Ruled speech was easily his best piece of dialogue, and shoulve been made at insane volume from the top of stark tower, causing the whole of NY to kneel..
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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    And can anyone explain to me what the point was of her jumping onto one of those flying vehicles in the last battle?.
    Wasn't the point to get to Stark tower to try to shut down the cube and because she was kinda out of the battle she was available? I don't remember what Iron Man and Thor were doing at the time, but I guess they were in the middle of fighting and couldn't give her a lift.
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  16. #9
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    Ha i love that comic! My car is made of polythene and goes squidgy in hot sunlight.
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  17. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Wasn't the point to get to Stark tower to try to shut down the cube and because she was kinda out of the battle she was available? I don't remember what Iron Man and Thor were doing at the time, but I guess they were in the middle of fighting and couldn't give her a lift.
    Yeah, you're right; that makes so much more sense for me now :B

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Though the Marvel Loki has been a lot less about just humor and mischief and more angsty and bitter (though at least his plans were a lot more elaborate), I too would have wanted to see more. (Though I liked the little moment when he talked about sentimentality and shed a tear.)
    That was something I found confusing. He said 'sentimentality' with derision, yet he cried? Does that have something to do with his personality in the comics or am I just missing something really obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Im also super bored of big snaktopus things flying around american city centres smashing up skyscrapers too. At least Independence Day had the spectacular super slowmo shockwave scenes. And 911 had good explosion effects. That big snake thing was in the trailer and youre like, i fucking hope that isnt the big monster boss. But it was. Sad face.
    I actually liked those things. They were cute, like big fishies. I want a whole aquarium full of 'em.

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  19. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    That was something I found confusing. He said 'sentimentality' with derision, yet he cried? Does that have something to do with his personality in the comics or am I just missing something really obvious?
    Well, the way I interpreted it was that Loki was outwardly mocking Thor's sentimentality (as I remember it was just after the part where Thor said they could work together, like they used to) but more addressing himself, as he still cared for Thor over all his grudge but had to throw it away to get what he wanted, and I'd guess Thor's suggestion hit a note in his heart.
    EDIT: I guess its kinda like this:
    The Avengers - spoiler warning, dont read if you want to go see it

    Also I too loved the bugdragons! I'd ride one to work if I could.
    Last edited by TinyBird; May 18th, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
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  21. #12
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    In the scene where Black Widow got her leg stuck. It was filmed in a way of "dat ass"

    I was like...ummmm.....and the way the filming went it reminded me of girls being tied to trains, at which point I was like... REALLY?! It actually kinda killed some of my respect for Black Widow.

    I like the shorter hair for her though.

    Oh and the "Well filmed for Family" well some "Families" didn't appreciate it. There was a bit of a hubbub over the "Adopted" line in the movie. But this is a PG 13 movie, so not "entirely" family.

    The Avengers - spoiler warning, dont read if you want to go see it
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  23. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    There was a bit of a hubbub over the "Adopted" line in the movie.
    Wha? What sort of hubbub, I'm now intrigued. Was is because robbing a kid doesn't generally count as adoption or was there some "non-in-universe" political thing for that?
    EDIT: Googled. Ohhhhh, yeah that part.

    In the scene where Black Widow got her leg stuck. It was filmed in a way of "dat ass"
    I have to admit I totally missed that :V
    Probably because I'm not the target audience but a Hulk-fan but the second time I'll have to pay more attention to catch a more critical view.
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  26. #15
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    Arshes Nei - What is she even doing in that poster? She looks like she's going to throw something but her hands are empty. The others make sense to me but that one just looks like a pointless pose. It's like they took her weapons away and said 'Just point at that building over there'.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Well, the way I interpreted it was that Loki was outwardly mocking Thor's sentimentality (as I remember it was just after the part where Thor said they could work together, like they used to) but more addressing himself, as he still cared for Thor over all his grudge but had to throw it away to get what he wanted, and I'd guess Thor's suggestion hit a note in his heart.
    That's cool, I get that. I wonder if they're going to continue with that in Thor 2; too bad we won't find out until next year.

    I wonder how long they're going to continue this series. So far there's 5 movies (not counting the Hulk films), Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 are planned for next year, Captain America 2 is expected in 2014, and they're already talking about the story for Avengers 2.

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    direrat: I think something very lightly touched on and forgotten is that Black Widow has her stingers. You saw them when she knocked out the alien but people forget she even has those ...specially the way it is in the movie.

    But yeah typical ass/boob shot...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arshes Nei View Post
    direrat: I think something very lightly touched on and forgotten is that Black Widow has her stingers. You saw them when she knocked out the alien but people forget she even has those ...specially the way it is in the movie.

    But yeah typical ass/boob shot...
    You mean the mechanical thingies that we saw like half a second in the movie? Though if they too give her extra powers, it really does question a bit what was Captain America's purpose in the team (aside symbolism and Marvel wanting to use a famous character for the movie) which has been brought up by several people. I mean aside the shield there's kinda little that he can do that no one else can do, power wise. Even his combat training/experience seems meager compared to Black Widow and Hawkeye.
    Not that I'm complaining since I liked him in the movie (and he did have his job rescuing civilians), but...

    For the poster, at least they didn't do it in the final commercial poster. Maybe someone in the art/marketing department saw the image you linked.

    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    That's cool, I get that. I wonder if they're going to continue with that in Thor 2; too bad we won't find out until next year.

    I wonder how long they're going to continue this series. So far there's 5 movies (not counting the Hulk films), Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 are planned for next year, Captain America 2 is expected in 2014, and they're already talking about the story for Avengers 2.
    Also Hulk 2 (or.. three, you know what I mean.) is supposed to come in 2015! Possibly with Ruffalo in the reins (which I would appreciate since having different Banner kinda eats the "this all is happening in the same universe" effect).

    But yeah, I do hope they get bit deeper into the relationship between the eternally forgiving Thor and almost equally eternally pissed Loki (since it was basically skipped in the first movie) or show what happened to Loki when he was floating around space, or where ever he was. Or if Thanos is really going to bust his ass for failing at the invasion. And I'm wondering if they plan on putting Loki in some unrelated movies (like have him pop up scheming in Iron Man 3 for example) since he is going to be in at least five movies (and if that counts both Thor and Avengers, there's three left).
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Also Hulk 2 (or.. three, you know what I mean.) is supposed to come in 2015! Possibly with Ruffalo in the reins (which I would appreciate since having different Banner kinda eats the "this all is happening in the same universe" effect).
    Yeah, I like Ruffalo so I hope he sticks around. And so far every movie with Hulk has used a different guy; they need to get away from that if they want the Hulk's personal franchise to be taken seriously.




    Btw here's a funny little e-mail chain where the members of Avengers discuss whether Hawkeye should be made part of the team:

    http://m.funnyordie.com/articles/f81...ures_and_words

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    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    Btw here's a funny little e-mail chain where the members of Avengers discuss whether Hawkeye should be made part of the team:

    http://m.funnyordie.com/articles/f81...ures_and_words
    And here's an abridged script, "If 'Avengers' Was 10 Times Shorter and 100 Times More Honest".
    http://www.cracked.com/article_19841...re-honest.html

    And oh man, Daredevil. I wonder if they count all the other Marvel movies as part of the Avengers-movie-canon or not (like Daredevil, Blade and Ghostrider).
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    SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON

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