Modern Women vs Traditional Women: Relationships and Workplace - Page 3

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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    is it true women dont have depth perception or souls?
    That is totally untrue. I have several souls. If people don't pick them up from the lost and found by cock's crow on Samhain I get to keep them.

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  4. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by continue View Post
    LOL, Arshes no!! I was thinking of something sorta strange when I posted that. >________< But Miku actually fits the description in a weird way >________<
    The other thing I was thinking of was Archer.

    Modern Women vs Traditional Women: Relationships and Workplace
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  6. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    Wait, are we to take it from that comment that you think that men and women aren't equal? So you're a total misogynist Kev?
    Why do you assume it's women at the disadvantage? Saying men and women aren't equal can also imply that men are the lesser. Why are you so misogynist?

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  7. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineris View Post
    That is totally untrue. I have several souls. If people don't pick them up from the lost and found by cock's crow on Samhain I get to keep them.
    Id sell my soul for a new soul. Or at least part-ex it. mine is starting to show signs of wear and tear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    in 2150 when people can and do change sex whenever they please, sexual inequality will seem as obsoletely barbaric as slavery.
    Just wondering, have you read Donna Haraway's Cyborg Manifesto? It's a bit dated now, but still I think you might find it interesting.

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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by s.ketch View Post
    Why do you assume it's women at the disadvantage? Saying men and women aren't equal can also imply that men are the lesser. Why are you so misogynist?
    Ughh, no. I'm not a misogynist, I'm not assuming that women are lesser, I'm assuming that Kev might hold a sexist viewpoint. Him saying that "nobody's equal" in the context of the question "For Women... Do you think your truly equal?" would tend to give that impression, plus Kev strikes me as pretty conservative, so I was just asking for him to clarify his position.

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  11. #67
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    All this conjecture over a true statement. Nobody's equal. What?s so hard to understand about that? If you disagree, you need to back up your (in my opinion) erroneous assumption.

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  13. #68
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    They certainly aren't equal in sport.
    Men are better at tennis than women.
    And Sampras is better than Henman who is better than me.
    And I'm better at it than my dad.

    A lot of people are smarter or better looking than me. I'm smarter and than a lot of other people and better looking than just a few...

    Equal rights and the non-equality of innate gifts specific to individuals and across gender characteristics are not the same thing.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; May 21st, 2012 at 04:05 AM. Reason: spelling
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  15. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    Ughh, no. I'm not a misogynist, I'm not assuming that women are lesser, I'm assuming that Kev might hold a sexist viewpoint. Him saying that "nobody's equal" in the context of the question "For Women... Do you think your truly equal?" would tend to give that impression, plus Kev strikes me as pretty conservative, so I was just asking for him to clarify his position.
    It was a stupid thread. People were giving flippant answers, because the original question was so wrongheaded that flippant answers were the only rational response. Kev's was yet another flippant answer, and also, undeniably, true. If you got "conservative," and immediately jumped from "conservative" to "sexist," from Kev's posts, then you really haven't been paying attention, and have only reenforced a lot of what he's been saying about the general intellectual level of everybody-on-these-boards-who's-not-Kev. (And that's the last thing we need.)

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  17. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    It was a stupid thread. People were giving flippant answers, because the original question was so wrongheaded that flippant answers were the only rational response. Kev's was yet another flippant answer, and also, undeniably, true. If you got "conservative," and immediately jumped from "conservative" to "sexist," from Kev's posts, then you really haven't been paying attention, and have only reenforced a lot of what he's been saying about the general intellectual level of everybody-on-these-boards-who's-not-Kev. (And that's the last thing we need.)
    Thank you for the defense, Tristan. But the "everybody-on-these-boards-who's-not-kev" part is certainly not fair. I have nothing but respect for the brainpower of a great many around here including you. And I think you know that.

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  19. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjpetch View Post
    Ughh, no. I'm not a misogynist, I'm not assuming that women are lesser, I'm assuming that Kev might hold a sexist viewpoint. Him saying that "nobody's equal" in the context of the question "For Women... Do you think your truly equal?" would tend to give that impression, plus Kev strikes me as pretty conservative, so I was just asking for him to clarify his position.
    Admitting that people aren't equal isn't sexism, racism, or whatever ism is in vogue at the moment. I echo Elwell in saying that something is wrong here if you gleamed conservatism and thus sexism from "nobody is equal." He didn't say "Men are equal to each other and women aren't equal to men" Nobody, categorically speaking, means nobody. I'd draw a diagram but that would violate my non-drawing post streak I have going on.

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    Nobody's equal, probably means, everyone has stronger and weaker points regardless of gender. I don't see how conservatism jumps to sexism, and you inferred that kev is conservative, so it's not like that was clearly stated either. I am a conservative myself. Are you going to assume that I am sexist too

    Last edited by CLANLESS; May 20th, 2012 at 11:37 PM.
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  22. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vritra View Post
    Just wondering, have you read Donna Haraway's Cyborg Manifesto? It's a bit dated now, but still I think you might find it interesting.
    I hadnt! I have now. I have to admit I kind of read it like I would Coleridge or William Burroughs, understanding little but enjoying the imagery.
    What did you take from it?

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  24. #74
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    Excuse my apparent naiveté (I am not being facetious) but are women actually being paid so much less than men? I was honestly completely unaware of that happening. Do you mean that in a business, if a man and a woman do the exact same job, quite often the woman would be paid less? But... why? If they're doing the same job and both to the same ability, why the difference? Don't many businesses regulate their pay, anyway, so that people in similar positions have similar incomes? And does this happen in the art world? Do galleries charge less for artwork done by women, do women make less in general in freelance, etc? I know that men are the majority in the professional art world (though art school would suggest otherwise...) but does the issue of pay differences exist within the art world?

    God, I live in such a sheltered little utopia...

    Honestly, I would rather have a woman lead in most every circumstance. The vast, vast majority of my favorite teachers have been women, and most of the other adults who I look back upon as having made great contributions to my life have been women as well. But then again, I'm certainly not the epitome of masculinity.

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  25. #75
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2...gender_pay_gap

    Does it exist? Census says so. Why does it exist? Internet debate time.

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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    They certainly aren't equal in sport.
    Men are better at tennis than women.
    And Sampras is better than Henman who is better than me.
    And I'm better at it than my dad.
    I'm a lot better at playing catch with my kids. But my wife was way better at having them. In fact it wasn't even really a point of discussion.

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  27. #77
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    I apologise if I interpreted Kev's words to have a meaning that he didn't intend. His comment struck me as sounding pretty sexist, so I was just asking him to clarify, is that so unreasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLANLESS View Post
    I don't see how conservatism jumps to sexism,
    The women's liberation movement was politically progressive. It was (and is) a movement for political and social change, which is by definition the opposite of conservatism. All of these political movements are diverse, so I'd never assume that every conservative person is sexist. Fiscal conservatism for instance doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sexism, but I'd argue that social conservatism does. Recent republican policies have been widely described as a "war on women", and conservative pundits and groups like Jesse Lee Peterson, Phyllis Schlafly, Rush Limbaugh, "conservapedia", etc. have all said unbelievably egregious things about women and feminism. So yeah, that's where the association I have comes from, but of course it's not absolute, exceptions abound, and I intend no insult to you or any other conservative person clanless.
    *Edit, I'm 100% sure that the graph I posted is meaningful, so I removed it. It sounds like I was completely wrong about Kev being sexist, my bad, sorry Kev! I'm just trying to explain my association between conservatism and sexism*

    Last edited by gjpetch; May 21st, 2012 at 06:02 AM. Reason: removing graph
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  28. #78
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    I like how USA's "democracy" has been limited to two parties.

    Having said that, it's true that the republican representatives generally don't speak in favor of equal rights for women and minority groups. That obviously doesn't mean that whoever votes republican supports everything said by the representatives (at least I sure don't hope so).

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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    I'm a lot better at playing catch with my kids. But my wife was way better at having them. In fact it wasn't even really a point of discussion.
    Jeff, you mean you didn't even try to have them yourself?

    Here's a thought.

    Women, on average, are more caring and empathic to others, more naturally interested in the emotional welfare of those around them.
    Men, on the other hand are, on average, are more interested in what makes things tick, how they work and the structures underlying phenomena.

    It's a basic difference between the sexes that is pan and pre cultural. Whether one characteristic is seen as more important or superior to the another is dependent on the circumstances at any given time.

    But many see the feminine characteristic as a put down.
    And it is that blanket value judgment that is sexist, not the statement concerning the reality of different gender characteristics.

    Last edited by Chris Bennett; May 21st, 2012 at 06:05 AM.
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  31. #80
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    And then there is this statistic

    27.3 percent of child deaths resulting from abuse were perpetrated by the mother, compared to only 14.8 percent of fathers. Mothers and fathers acting together accounted for 22.5 percent of child deaths. According to these same statistics only 2.3 percent of fatalities were committed by a parent’s male partner.

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    I know it's been a while, but I got an A on my project and passed the class.
    I'm graduating this week.
    So.. Thanks!
    I didn't mean for this to become an argument though.

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  33. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    And then there is this statistic

    27.3 percent of child deaths resulting from abuse were perpetrated by the mother, compared to only 14.8 percent of fathers. Mothers and fathers acting together accounted for 22.5 percent of child deaths. According to these same statistics only 2.3 percent of fatalities were committed by a parent’s male partner.
    But how much time on average do male parents spend with children as compared to female parents? I imagine that it's a lot easier to not murder a source of stress when you can choose to not be exposed to it for a third of the day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Kobryn View Post
    but are women actually being paid so much less than men? I was honestly completely unaware of that happening. Do you mean that in a business, if a man and a woman do the exact same job, quite often the woman would be paid less?
    Funnily enough, I did encounter this. I worked at a Kroger deli for one summer and a male friend of mine worked there the next summer. Neither one of us had any experience in the food industry or any sort of job experience that would really apply to this. I was paid $7.35 an hour, ten cents above minimum wage. He was paid $8.65 on the spot, no promotions or anything. We had the exact same job. I have no idea why they offered him a better wage since he had never done any sort of deli work at all.

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  35. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bennett View Post
    Jeff, you mean you didn't even try to have them yourself?
    Funny enough Chris, I actually had a certain amount of the sympathy pregnancy thing going on...so I was tryin!

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  36. #85
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    Hey, somebody definitely tried. And he's a mothafucking ARTIST too! And a damn creepy one at that.

    Beware the male pregnancy project.



    And now we can start a Traditonal Men v.s. Pregnant Men thread.

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    Jacob Kobryn, I have news for you. I've worked in places where everybody did the same job but the commission scale was different for men and women, and women and women, and men and men. Not based on success rates, but on a whim according to what the boss wanted to pay. I found it out by accident and left the job in disgust.

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    is this the line to churches?

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    It is too bad we have to put labels on "roles". Using terms like "traditional", "liberal", "modern", etc are not very useful for several reasons. They tend to stereotype people and contain value judgements, overt or implied. In short they are oversimplifications that get in the way of honest dialogue.

    Western nations have removed most legal barriers restricting people's actions based on gender, race or sexual orientation. Yes, some social barriers remain, but they are crumbling very quickly. I have borne witness to the last 60 plus years of social change/improvement. It has been a testament to the Pareto Principle. The 80% has already happened and we are pushing on the remaining 20%. But hey, I'm an old, white male, and we know we can't trust those guys.

    Personally I believe that everyone (read that again - everyone) should be free to live their life as they see fit. The trick is staying partnered, employed and out of jail.

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