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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    As well, aesthetic philosophy isn't arbitrary.
    Although one might be forgiven for thinking that, given that there's an aesthetic philosopher for almost every opinion one could possibly hold about art.
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  4. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Either the dog's face has fallen off or the feet are on backwards.
    Not to get too dada here, but I accidentally capitalized its feet.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  6. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cider View Post
    I'm trying to understand this: is it art because you had an emotional reponse to it? Is art defined by the producer or the consumer?
    I am not even trying to define what is and isn't art. That has become too difficult for me and I avoid difficult. I am expressing an opinion and why I would never say it's not art. Until we come up with an all knowing art committee or one omnipotent art god I'll leave each to his/her own definition.

    Kev has a good handle on what he believes is art. I just make stuff and hope people will buy it and have a certain insight because of that. I teach illustration so I won't need to define art.

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  8. #64
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    Thanks. I wasn't trying to put you on the spot, but it's an interesting question to me, and I agree that you're in a position to have special insight. Seems like regardless of whether something is or isn't art, value is relative to each person's experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    Kev has a good handle on what he believes is art.
    There's a logic to how the various value-charged words bandied about in these conversations held meaning within the context of aesthetic philosophy. Agreeing with that logic is not a belief in the same sense that one might believe in an ideology. This is like saying that Maxwell's equations are opinions.

    The modernist attempt to transcend the logics of aesthetics only changed how most people understand the words used. Not their referents. This linguistic revolution allowed created objects to be called by names that were previously understood to be inapplicable. But a rose is still a rose. The phenomenology of the art experience has not been altered one jot. No more than the activity of our synapses would change if we called them Carman Mind Switch Gaps™.

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  11. #66
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    "This is like saying that Maxwell's equations are opinions."

    anyone can repeat his experiments and find the same results. intelligent slugs from planet X would still agree with maxwells laws. thats fundamentally different from a "logic of aesthetics." have you ever seen an intelligent slugs wife/mother? its not pretty.
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  12. #67
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    The phenomenology of the art experience has not been altered one jot
    It's not the experience that is in question for me it is and has always been the words. The word art being at the top of the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    anyone can repeat Maxwell's experiments and find the same results ... thats fundamentally different from a "logic of aesthetics."
    You didn't understand the analogy.
    At least Icarus tried!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    you realise the only person your extremely literal 'every picture must be of something, like a tree or a person' approach is cheating is you right?
    I see your point, but I'm open to abstract expressionism. It just has to be well crafted and creative. I enjoy cool patterns, mark making, raw composition and design aesthetics. I will admit I bias toward graphic design in that department when looking for inspirato. Which is derived from Rothko and friends.
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  16. #70
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    I guess I didnt understand your analogy Kev, it sounded like you were saying aesthetics are in some way universal in the same way the relationships codified in maxwells equations are.. and that modern arts attempts to defy or subvert those conventions was in fact just extending the language with which they were expressed.
    which i disagree with, aesthetics are value judgments of clever monkey brains, not laws.

    "I see your point, but I'm open to abstract expressionism. It just has to be well crafted and creative. "

    Rothkos are crafted beautifully, theyre strange, they seem to have 3d depth, the colours are rich and bold. they seem to carry a brooding presence. theyre amazingly powerful artefacts that tower over you like monoliths in the literal, stone sense, and show you art doesnt have to be easy or immediately satisfying. they ask more questions than they answer. their apparent crudity doesnt fight with the beauty of a velasquez or tischen, it compliments them.

    i think they occupy as important a place in the ecosystem of ideas that is art as any mannered delicate masterpiece.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; May 9th, 2012 at 11:09 PM.
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  18. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I guess I didnt understand your analogy Kev, it sounded like you were saying aesthetics are in some way universal in the same way the relationships codified in maxwells equations are.. and that modern art was attempts to defy or subvert those conventions was in fact just extending the language with which they were expressed.
    which i disagree with, aesthetics are value judgments of clever monkey brains, not laws.
    You're just garbling it all up now. Bluffing = Painful. Why bother?
    At least Icarus tried!


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  20. #72
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    here we go the nastiness begins. hey im Kev the chatboard alpha male! grow up?
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; May 9th, 2012 at 11:08 PM.
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    Nothing Rothko painted is as interesting as this.

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  23. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Nothing Rothko painted is as interesting as this.
    "Among other wrongful acts, the gallery had been filtering payments for Rothko's works through accounts in Switzerland and Liechtenstein as part of an effort to ensure the paintings were undervalued during Rothko's lifetime — in the 1960s this led the artist to vastly underestimate the value of his works...The trial record revealed that the gallery had been stockpiling the undervalued works instead of selling them in order to ensure both a low market saturation and a high Marlborough inventory, anticipating a heightened value in the market after Rothko's death"

    Liechtenstein again! only this time the country not the Roy.
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  24. #75
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    I don't think Rothko is that bad. I just think uneven pavement is a better artist. In Rothko's defense uneven pavement can draw allot of inspiration.

    Maybe it had to do with my experience. I was expecting something unexpected when I saw it and got less than I was hoping for.

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