Yet another "create art because you love it, not to get rich" post.
 
View testimonialsView Artwork
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Washington, US
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    1,571
    Thanked 716 Times in 343 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Yet another "create art because you love it, not to get rich" post.

    My Sketchbook

    And then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness and our image. Let us make him ridiculously hard to draw so that poor artists everywhere will have to spend 10,000+ hours failing repeatedly before they can begin to capture the form and likeness onto a two-dimensional surface." And there was man. And it was good. And artists everywhere lost their minds.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    "Most every artist in the world will likely not make a living from their work"... Uh, say what? Except all the artists who ARE making a living off their work.

    Like, y'know, a lot of the people on this site.

    What's ironic to me is that he makes a comparison with musicians supposedly never making a living off music, and meanwhile I'm making a living off art and my sister used to make a living playing in orchestras. (And yes, she played classical, she didn't have to play Doobie Brothers...)

    What in the world is he basing his conclusions on?

    (Granted, if he's mostly talking about indie comics, that is admittedly not a lucrative field...)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Washington, US
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    1,571
    Thanked 716 Times in 343 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I don't think it's an absurd statement since he said most every artist. I doubt he has any statistics but I would guess the majority is not making a living doing it. It also doesn't mean they're not making money from it, it just means it's not the majority's career or sole source of income.

    My Sketchbook

    And then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness and our image. Let us make him ridiculously hard to draw so that poor artists everywhere will have to spend 10,000+ hours failing repeatedly before they can begin to capture the form and likeness onto a two-dimensional surface." And there was man. And it was good. And artists everywhere lost their minds.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deland Florida
    Posts
    666
    Thanks
    260
    Thanked 210 Times in 167 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'll admit...I skimmed. I read:

    Most artists no matter how good won't make money

    (Wait wha-?)

    My art led me to god!!!!

    It's one thing to say most artists wont make money. But to say that the skill level is irrelevant as well to the profitability is idiotic. And then he went from that to talking about how it helped him find god. -.-

    In other words, why are we even wasting time talking about this?

    The Sketchbook of Naj and Stu!:
    SKETCHBOOK

    And of course go check out the SB of DefiledVisions
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stuart DeViva For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I think it's the way he phrases things. If he'd said "many artists" or "most aspiring artists" or "a majority of aspiring artists" won't make a living off their art, I might buy that. A lot of people think they'll become artists and then end up doing something else after art school, while having an art hobby on the side or something.

    But when he says "most every artist in the world"...? I mean, come ON. It's nowhere near THAT bad.

    I think he needs to do more research on art careers...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    799
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 218 Times in 173 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by UmpaArt View Post

    It's one thing to say most artists wont make money. But to say that the skill level is irrelevant as well to the profitability is idiotic. And then he went from that to talking about how it helped him find god. -.-

    In other words, why are we even wasting time talking about this?
    This^

    -We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.

    -Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em.

    My SKETCHbook
    http://jeeso.deviantart.com/
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  9. #7
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The thing is, any arts/creative field is a pyramid. There are a very few people at the top making a lot of money, and a ton of people at the bottom making no money. Everybody knows about the people at the top, because they're famous, and everybody knows about the people at the bottom, because there are so many of them that everybody personally knows some. But there's a lot of room in the middle.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  10. The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  11. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    325
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 200 Times in 98 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Last I checked they're making a movie out of Ghostopolis, starring Hugh Jackman. Unless he really screwed up the contract on that one, I can't imagine Doug is being entirely truthful with us about how much money he makes these days.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,810
    Thanks
    2,719
    Thanked 5,984 Times in 2,414 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    This guy is on crack if he says things like this

    "Go to a California plein air art gallery in Laguna Beach and look at some of the greatest paintings of our times being sold for $400 bucks a pop. Half of that goes to the gallery. Good luck on that get rich thing."

    He is off by a factor of 8 to 10. I don't know what he is smoking but it just sounds like an excuse to be mediocre at something and ignore the successes around him.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Birth Place of the World, NYC
    Posts
    2,831
    Thanks
    2,639
    Thanked 1,045 Times in 682 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    "Most every artist in the world will likely not make a living from their work"... Uh, say what? Except all the artists who ARE making a living off their work.

    Like, y'know, a lot of the people on this site.

    What's ironic to me is that he makes a comparison with musicians supposedly never making a living off music, and meanwhile I'm making a living off art and my sister used to make a living playing in orchestras. (And yes, she played classical, she didn't have to play Doobie Brothers...)

    What in the world is he basing his conclusions on?

    (Granted, if he's mostly talking about indie comics, that is admittedly not a lucrative field...)
    And WHAT'S wrong with playing the Doobie Brothers!

    (Shame on you, QG)

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  15. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    ORL, Florida
    Posts
    1,075
    Thanks
    565
    Thanked 389 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    This guy is on crack if he says things like this

    "Go to a California plein air art gallery in Laguna Beach and look at some of the greatest paintings of our times being sold for $400 bucks a pop. Half of that goes to the gallery. Good luck on that get rich thing."

    He is off by a factor of 8 to 10. I don't know what he is smoking but it just sounds like an excuse to be mediocre at something and ignore the successes around him.
    Exactly. He sounds like a lazy POS that never had the work ethic/drive to become skillful and now he's taking it out on the world with these blog posts.

    A little bit assumptive, sure............but that's what it seems like to me.

    BLAHBLAHBLAH
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    477
    Thanked 497 Times in 270 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlyhazard View Post
    Exactly. He sounds like a lazy POS that never had the work ethic/drive to become skillful and now he's taking it out on the world with these blog posts.

    A little bit assumptive, sure............but that's what it seems like to me.
    Unless you actually know the person, it's probably better to avoid those kinds of statements.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  17. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlyhazard View Post
    Exactly. He sounds like a lazy POS that never had the work ethic/drive to become skillful and now he's taking it out on the world with these blog posts.

    A little bit assumptive, sure............but that's what it seems like to me.
    Whatever else one might think about Doug TeNapel, you can't say he's not skillful or successful.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  19. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    ORL, Florida
    Posts
    1,075
    Thanks
    565
    Thanked 389 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice Herring View Post
    Unless you actually know the person, it's probably better to avoid those kinds of statements.
    Yeah but the fact that he said the greatest paintings of our time are making 400$ a pop....makes me think that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. I went overboard with what I said. But note that I said he sounded like a 'lazy POS,' not that he was one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Whatever else one might think about Doug TeNapel, you can't say he's not skillful or successful.

    Okay now that I've searched this guy up more, I still don't understand why he said that thing about 'the greatest paintings of our time' selling so low. He seems like he would be more knowledgeable than that. The statements he made created a feeling that the guy was an amateur and he clearly isn't. Maybe he was exaggerating.

    Last edited by Deadlyhazard; May 8th, 2012 at 12:16 AM.
    BLAHBLAHBLAH
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  20. #15
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm sure he's been called worse.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  21. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    477
    Thanked 497 Times in 270 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Whatever else one might think about Doug TeNapel, you can't say he's not skillful or successful.
    You missed an 'n' there, Elwell.

    Hazard: well. Being successful at something doesn't make them right at everything. Many people are prone to taking a few examples and applying them to a whole situation, exaggeration, etc. (As I am not a plein air painter nor have I visited museums in Laguna, I totally can't comment on that.)

    Last edited by Alice Herring; May 8th, 2012 at 12:20 AM. Reason: GRAMMAR FAIL
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Alice Herring For This Useful Post:


  23. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,001
    Thanks
    891
    Thanked 1,009 Times in 538 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm guessing no one figures how this is ya know.... ... a blog post. One also labeled how a cafeteria worker makes more than the author. Looks more like a venting frustration post which if you've ever vented on a blog or other similar outlets. You tend to exaggerate, overlook things, or just not give a fuck in general.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to JFierce For This Useful Post:


  25. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Washington, US
    Posts
    1,194
    Thanks
    1,571
    Thanked 716 Times in 343 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Clearly I'm ignorant about some things too or I would have fact-checked a little more before posting this. I read it differently than a lot of people commenting though. I read it less like, "Skill doesn't matter, success is about luck" and more like, "Even lots of top artists won't end up doing it for a living because it's a hard market and if you're going to do it, it will take lots of love and dedication." ...which thinking about it now, is what makes a top artist sooo...Anyway. Hi.

    My Sketchbook

    And then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness and our image. Let us make him ridiculously hard to draw so that poor artists everywhere will have to spend 10,000+ hours failing repeatedly before they can begin to capture the form and likeness onto a two-dimensional surface." And there was man. And it was good. And artists everywhere lost their minds.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  26. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,379
    Thanks
    246
    Thanked 361 Times in 281 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Once upon a time, the "great" artists didn't make any millions until they died...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  27. #20
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Candra H View Post
    Once upon a time, the "great" artists didn't make any millions until they died...
    This is a total myth. With only a few notable exceptions, almost every artist from the past that we consider great today was acclaimed and successful in their own time. It's actually far more common for artists to be popular in their lifetimes and then fall into obscurity after death.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  29. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,379
    Thanks
    246
    Thanked 361 Times in 281 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Yep, I know. I was being facetious.

    Never mind me.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  30. The Following User Says Thank You to Candra H For This Useful Post:


  31. #22
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    No prob.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  33. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    773
    Thanks
    664
    Thanked 374 Times in 251 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I think this guy makes a lot of sense.

    Yes, there are a lot of people who make a living with their art, but most don't. I've read before that something like 90% of all art school grads don't make a career out of art. Sure the 10% does... but that doesn't make him wrong. There is a lot of luck involved, and I've seen some very cheap masterpieces in my time. A lot of what we call masterpieces today originally sold pretty low (not all -- but alot).

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  34. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Birth Place of the World, NYC
    Posts
    2,831
    Thanks
    2,639
    Thanked 1,045 Times in 682 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I don't want to be an artist, I want to have a career.





    j/k

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  35. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    People under the assumption that art shouldn't be for money should tear off their designer clothing, don't watch a single movie, and contact their real estate agents to sell their house because all these are done by people engrossing themselves in art and learning to understand their ideas well enough to be made into something. Unless illustration, concept "art", architecture, and design isn't "art".

    Everyone "sells" their feelings at some point because nobody goes through work life untarnished with jobs they want to do. If you love what you draw enough to make the work aspect of it a coincidence, then it's no different than neuroscientists, astronauts, soldiers, and physicisists. I don't see why the ever common "do what you like" advice for confused high school kids should exclude arts because the thought processes that art touches is part of what define humans from every other animals.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  36. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    835
    Thanks
    110
    Thanked 312 Times in 113 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    "Go to a California plein air art gallery in Laguna Beach and look at some of the greatest paintings of our times being sold for $400 bucks a pop. Half of that goes to the gallery. Good luck on that get rich thing."

    Maybe there's his problem. The greatest paintings of our times? With all due respect for those plein air painters but since when are plein air paintings the greatest and most interesting paintings and should go for huge amounts of money? Most plein air paintings are just that, plein air paintings and nothing more. The guys who make or made great landscape paintings with the intention of portraying more than just a landscape are hanging in museums or in good galleries.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  37. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,001
    Thanks
    891
    Thanked 1,009 Times in 538 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Must.... resist..... urge.... to sidetrack topic.... ... ... with discussion on Architecture being .... nowhere near the same grouping as illustration or concept art... .....

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  38. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    122
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 37 Times in 31 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    My mind goes to the year of 2007 where I made $20,000 in a year… with a wife and four kids… and a house that drained every inch of our savings… we qualified for foodstamps (I didn’t take them)
    I was shocked at that part. How did he survive?
    That barely covers rent for a basic 1 bedroom place here (Australia).

    While reading his blog, my manager pointed out some article about Facebook shares and how some people are getting richer etc.

    David Choe
    Estimated worth: $60m
    Post-IPO estimate: $310m

    US artist David Choe will soon become the creator of the world's most expensive artwork, and you've probably never heard of him. Sean Parker commissioned Choe to paint murals inside the first Facebook headquarters. Zuckerberg asked him to do the same in the next office, and Choe opted to be paid in stock instead of cash. The gamble is set to make Choe around $200 million - making it the most ever paid for an artwork.

    The US painter, graffiti artist and graphic novelist was hired by Sean Parker to paint murals on the walls of the first Facebook office. Zuckerberg commissioned Choe to do the same in the second office, but Choe took his $60,000 fee in stock instead of cash. That could reap him up to $200 million. Choe also has one of his works – a portrait of Barack Obama – hanging in the White House.


    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  39. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,810
    Thanks
    2,719
    Thanked 5,984 Times in 2,414 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonas Heirwegh View Post
    "Go to a California plein air art gallery in Laguna Beach and look at some of the greatest paintings of our times being sold for $400 bucks a pop. Half of that goes to the gallery. Good luck on that get rich thing."

    Maybe there's his problem. The greatest paintings of our times? With all due respect for those plein air painters but since when are plein air paintings the greatest and most interesting paintings and should go for huge amounts of money? Most plein air paintings are just that, plein air paintings and nothing more. The guys who make or made great landscape paintings with the intention of portraying more than just a landscape are hanging in museums or in good galleries.
    That's as ignorant a statement as you could make. Those paintings are just like any other they depend on the abilities of the artists making them not on their subject.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  40. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  41. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Boise, ID
    Posts
    1,238
    Thanks
    889
    Thanked 1,535 Times in 567 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    That's as ignorant a statement as you could make. Those paintings are just like any other they depend on the abilities of the artists making them not on their subject.
    I wondered how long it would take you to respond to this. Surprisingly gentle too.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 1

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook