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    need opinion?

    so i recently entered one of my pieces into an art contest ultimately judged by tim burton with cash prizes...one of the rules stipulate you cannot use third party stock...i need an opinion
    this piece here was chosen as a semi finalist and the judging is still in progress http://moonbeam13.deviantart.com/jou...89722#/d4xcw3j
    on the SAME site in the stock photos i found this (which was given zero credit) http://eveyd.deviantart.com/art/Vint...lack-268260304
    now i confronted the artist about how the border was done...
    her reply...
    "It took quite a bit of trial and error. At first I did it really free hand, and realized it was making an uneven shape, so I used the circle/marque tool to make the various shapes and fill them in. Since I was working in gray, I used color dynamics on my brushes [light gray to dark gray/black] and went over all the areas to give it their textures, And then kept going back and forth between the different values to give the various designs some volume."

    "I hope that makes sense, it a little bit hard to explain as I went through many steps that didn't work/fit, and I kept trying again and again."

    me:
    "so you you did not use any images for the border? all done with the selection tool...and went over all the areas...interesting approach...ill give it a shot in the future..."

    her reply:
    "Yeah, I mostly just experiment until I'm satisfied. To really get this gritty texture though, you have to go over it quite a few times with different brushes of different sizes so that it doesn't look mechanical like digital brushes sometimes end up looking.

    I had looked up some borders/frames for inspiration, but nothing I found fit with my intention, so in the end I totally designed my own"

    sooo...i put it through photoshop...walla
    they overlay perfectly...

    after i confronted the artist...this is what i get

    "I'm sorry you feel that way, I had no idea that was what you were insinuating about my work, I thought you were honestly curious about my process, which I shared with you. Do I have to outline every single little step of my process to you until you are satisfied? Yes I used a marque tool, yes I used a drop shadow effect. Those are tools in Photoshop that are there for people to use. I'm sorry if that means to you that it is no longer considered digital painting.

    And why are you going on about a rug? I had to double check to figure out where I put a rug, and I think you mean the texture of the border? I already explained how I achieved that texture. If that is still not satisfying, please wait until tomorrow when I have the time to copy out all the specific settings I created on the brushes in order to get that effect.

    If at all possible, please also apologize, I am not a liar. If you want I can help you critique your work for you to understand what they are looking for in these contests. I think you were really close with your entry. I analyzed past contests in order to better understand what the judges would look for. I thoroughly researched the rules and the past trends on contest winners before I designed my own piece.

    If you are absolutely certain that I am lying, then there really is nothing I could ever say or do to convince you. Like I said though, I'm willing to give you feedback on your work--if you think my experience will be at all beneficial to you."

    am i making a wrong assumption? do i owe her an apology?

    Last edited by Jeronimo; April 29th, 2012 at 10:46 AM.
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    I can't make those two frames overlap perfectly with keeping the proportions of them the same. The stock is much higher and has to be manually adjusted to fit the one in the portrait. So honestly I can see if she took inspiration of that or of other similar images for the border but no, I personally don't see that she used that exact stock.

    Also, even if the artist had used that stock, doing something against competition rules isn't art theft if the stock is free for use.

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    this is the artists gallery... http://nonnahs144.deviantart.com/gallery/
    these are the semi-finalists... http://moonbeam13.deviantart.com/jou...ists-298689722

    Last edited by Jeronimo; April 29th, 2012 at 10:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    this is the artists gallery... http://nonnahs144.deviantart.com/gallery/
    these are the semi-finalists... http://moonbeam13.deviantart.com/jou...ists-298689722

    the judging was based off of technical skill... this is mine...40 + hrs all freehand http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...er-d4xlbm0.jpg
    the whole contest is flawed in my opinion...i could use some help
    Yeah, I can see why yours isn't one of the finalist images. Just saying I can't make the borders overlap perfectly, as you said they would.

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    im not talking about the outside border...and i guess its not theft...my bad...but stock artist asked for credit...none was given...i guess the better question is this in violation of the contest rules of third party stock?

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    the inside border matches...out to the twisted rope...i downloaded the original stock in full res off http://eveyd.deviantart.com/art/Vint...lack-268260304 you have to hit the download button on right to get full size...my question is the offcentered stock...matches offcentered piece...and her explanation as to her process doesnt make sense...as this artist claims no images were used for the border...all freehand...check out the rest of her gallery

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    deviantart contests? oh pleeeaseeee.

    on the fourth day of glitchmas my painter™ gave to me
    four random crashes, three broken brushes, two system hangups & one corrupted workspace
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    im not talking about the outside border...and i guess its not theft...my bad...but stock artist asked for credit...none was given...i guess the better question is this in violation of the contest rules of third party stock?
    Again, those aren't the same either. Using a stock image means that the artist uses the actual image, not taking inspiration of photos of real, existing things. The stock artist didn't design/draw that border, and the contest artist didn't use the actual stock photo, so... No, I personally don't see it as violation, if all the rule said was not to use stock photos for your image.

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    the rules stipulate you cannot use third party stock...only what was given in their asset pack...

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    the artist claims it was all done freehand...with various size brushes with color dynamics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    the rules stipulate you cannot use third party stock...only what was given in their asset pack...
    And from what I can see myself, for that border that one wasn't used. Doing textures with your brushes is not violation and you can do textures with brushes as you can do your own brushes (not to mention if there was stock given to the participants) and it's just... an oval border. It's not impossible to do on your own. Did the artist possibly copy the look of the border? Maybe. Did they use the stock image? No.

    If you're really concerned about this, report this to Moonbeam13 or other admins of the contest.

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    my opinion is the stock photo was a backdrop...and the art work manually adjusted to fit inside the png (which is off centered) just like the finished piece...i believe the artist used the image and doctored over it and added some elements...but the placement inside the border matches the imperfect placement of the stock...based off the rest of this artists gallery i believe the rules were violated...i feel it was a few different stock images layered fr the background...including the one i found...not hand painted by the technique she told me...all created her own

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    i wanted to get some opinions...i might just give up on the whole thing...and keep practicing

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    hmm I don't know, to me it doesn't seem like she lifted it up directly from the stock. It doesn't look very similar.
    ye, just keep practicing bro.

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    i think it was a mashup of a few different outside stock used for the border...the imperfect centering in the stock png matches the imperfect centering of the art in question to a tee...the artist says no textures were used...only many hours of brush strokes...her statements are above

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    i think it was a mashup of a few different outside stock used for the border...the imperfect centering in the stock png matches the imperfect centering of the art in question to a tee...the artist says no textures were used...only many hours of brush strokes...her statements are above
    And honestly you don't really have any real proof to prove the opposite. I don't really get the "imperfect centering thing" and now you bring "few different" outside stocks to play, though you don't show how you know this or proof that they were outside stocks... Like the rules said, "licensed brushes and textures are acceptable" so if you have any other proof than "I believe" and that something is off-center, then contact the contest admins.

    This thread and the "prestigious art contest worth money", "this is mine...40 + hrs all freehand" comments just make you look butthurt that you didn't get chosen. I can get if you're genuinely interested about what might count as using stock, but this is more like you trying to rally us hating someone.

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    the stock image if you download it full res...has a transparent center...but...its off centered to the top and bottom inner ring exactly like the art piece...the right side inner ring is almost touching the piece...the bottom margin is quite a bit bigger...the top margin is smaller because the stock image was not centered perfectly....the art work mimics that...

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    no i am fine about the comp...her lying about her process and asking me to appologize is when makes me 'butthurt'

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    It doesn't look quite the same. It is also appearent that she has the nessiary skill to have painted it herself. Maybe she used it as a reference. The point is even if she straight out stole it, like you're saying -- you Can't prove it.

    What I'm really wondering is... what is your stake in this? Were you designated the contest's official watchdog? Really it sounds like you're just trying to whip up a witch hunt.

    Yes. You owe her an apology. If you accused her publically then you need to apologize publically. If it was done privately then do it privately.

    Last edited by Shorinji_Knight; April 29th, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    the stock image if you download it full res...has a transparent center...but...its off centered to the top and bottom inner ring exactly like the art piece...the right side inner ring is almost touching the piece...the bottom margin is quite a bit bigger...the top margin is smaller because the stock image was not centered perfectly....the art work mimics that...
    Oh that. Your scribbles really didn't convey that at all (and now starting to remove stuff from your posts isn't helping at all here), and again, copying design from an existing photo frame is not the same as using that stock photo. Even those inner lines do not line up when I overlay those images.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    no i am fine about the comp...her lying about her process and asking me to appologize is when makes me 'butthurt'
    Yeah except that her lying seems to be in your own head, if I go with what has been shown here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post

    sooo...i put it through photoshop...walla
    they overlay perfectly...

    am i making a wrong assumption? do i owe her an apology?
    I think my favorite part of the whole story is this.

    Yet no overlay to show you're correct. I did an overlay and it did not match.

    I am talking about the inside ring, and not the outside which is different.

    But you didn't contact the admins of the contest and instead started it right on her page. Not a note or anything.

    http://comments.deviantart.com/1/297893503/2522223951

    Talk about poor sportsmanship.

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    Please keep lame deviantart drama bullshit on deviantart itself.

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    i guess you are right...its just when she explained her process it didnt add up...no textures were used...all using various brush sizes with color dynamics......her full explanation is at the top...i dont have much to go on...true...and i needed a second opinion... ...the border looks like a photo to me and that photo was not given to us in the asset pack...my first post shows her in depth explanation as to how it was done...
    when i posted earlier it came up as a duplicate on my screen so i deleted it...and it deleted both...fuck it...im sorry

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    I contacted the artist and let her know you were smearing her here. I'm going to prevent you from deleting the thread too.

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    the semi finalists do show great skill though...i think its me that needs the work...

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    the inner ring does not match up...but the off-centered does out to the twisted rope mid border...it just seems like the photo was used...and the inner ring was modified to stand out...i like the piece...but her process just seems skewed to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    ts just when she explained her process it didnt add up...no textures were used...all using various brush sizes with color dynamics......
    And that pretty much adds up.
    I don't know how much experience you have with brushes but this:
    Name:  brushery.jpg
Views: 277
Size:  31.4 KB
    That is all one basic brush that comes with Photoshop, with different brush presets adjusted. Apply several different brushes together to one mess and if you know what you are doing or have luck, you can achieve different textures with just brushes.

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    thank you that was insightful...actually appreciate your time to do that...it may just be a fluke that the textures and the same off centering in the same direction match

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeronimo View Post
    thank you that was insightful...actually appreciate your time to do that...it may just be a fluke that the textures and the same off centering in the same direction match
    So what's your hangup on that since you first said it matches perfectly in an overlay in Photoshop?

    Obviously you know enough about photoshop to make an overlay, but now are ignorant of brushes?

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    another reason i believe the inner ring was modified is how the inner ring is thicker on one side...making it seem like it was gone over to make it stand out...thank you for your time

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