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  1. #61
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    velocity I went through your sketchbook for shits and giggles and I think my brain melted a little
    I've never went through so many images and didn't know what I was looking at haha

     


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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIIzoeIII View Post
    velocity I went through your sketchbook for shits and giggles and I think my brain melted a little
    I've never went through so many images and didn't know what I was looking at haha
    Cant tell if trying to insult, or genuinely cant recognize forms in proper space.

    if insulting i suggest just leaving CA now, or sticking to sketchbook. Bringing others down is not cool, and especially when the ones you are insulting are genuinely trying to help and work with you. Honestly, velocity (and others) is being very patient and unbelievably calm.

    If second.

     

  4. #63
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    spiritvanished knows about crits too! This girl has taken a lot of shit about her work lol. A lot from me! But she knows we all mean well...that is obvious to her.

    I left this thread because I didn't know what to say. The very next thread I went to was this one. Notice the difference between your attitude, and Sally's? And that is just one example...the very first one I went to.

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241080

    Not because she agrees. You shouldn't believe every crit u get. But because her attitude is open-minded. She is humble and willing. Why NOT try it our way? Your work is not better than professional published work ffs. I just have to say that dude. You're going to say I'm just being rude. I'm just being honest. Your head is in the clouds bro.

    BTW I'm very impressed with Velocity's SB too. That SB is oozing creativity.

    Last edited by Artfix; April 26th, 2012 at 08:24 PM.
     

  5. #64
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    "velocity I went through your sketchbook for shits and giggles and I think my brain melted a little
    I've never went through so many images and didn't know what I was looking at haha"

    haha we're the same, i only do it for fun too!
    i agree, what you do in your free time is totally free, you can be as wierd as you fucking like. let your mind wonder. its your universe in there, yuore absolute ruler ha ha ha
    i respect your opinion on that in your ealrlier posts.
    but its still fun to learn about about real artists, like painters, and steal their ideas.
    i dont put much paid work in that sketchbook cos its boring stuff, like a picture of a housing estate from the air, x10. or use it in freetime stuff for a laugh.

    as people have said, seperate your blue sky work from serious study, and tell people so they know. personal stuff you can do whatever you like. for serious study let people help you. Good luck!

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; April 26th, 2012 at 08:49 PM.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    "velocity I went through your sketchbook for shits and giggles and I think my brain melted a little
    I've never went through so many images and didn't know what I was looking at haha"

    haha we're the same, i only do it for fun too!
    i agree, what you do in your free time is totally free, you can be as wierd as you fucking like. let your mind wonder. its your universe in there, yuore absolute ruler ha ha ha
    i respect your opinion on that in your ealrlier posts.
    but its still fun to learn about about real artists, like painters, and steal their ideas.
    i dont put much paid work in that sketchbook cos its boring stuff, like a picture of a housing estate from the air, x10. or use it in freetime stuff for a laugh.

    as people have said, seperate your blue sky work from serious study, and tell people so they know. personal stuff you can do whatever you like. for serious study let people help you. Good luck!
    yes it is definitely quite vast and varied up all the way from a really nice portrait into a robot thing with axes I kept lol cause I could tell you were aiming for sheer comical insanity

     

  7. #66
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    well here's another take on it I was messing with the pencil then was like fuck it!
    it's so much easier than doing it all broken up with pencil and scanning all that crap in.

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  8. #67
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    with the way I set this up I think I could actually put some people on that rock to the right and everything will still look the right distance and make the monster look the size i want him to.

     

  9. #68
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    then without the cape

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  10. #69
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    Man, that is a thousand times better.

     

  11. #70
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    yep different league.
    lets see it bigger
    bit of a risk of buffalo shot but that aside, looks a metric fuckload better.

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  12. #71
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    thanks, I wish someone would have just done a paint over or thumbnail of this for me...I don't where the hell I came up it I was about ready to change everything then sat back and said dude..this isn't even gunna be what I want it to be anymore if I rework everything like I was.So I remembered those videos and thought about how they said everything is essentially a square..so I made it a circle thought maybe that would rid me of the grid a little.

    so now to level 12 or 13 or..w/e critiquing
    do you think I should fill the bottom negative space or leave it so I have the right blue rock and the hero create the symmetry and do you think I should keep the cape or ditch it?

     

  13. #72
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    thanks, I wish someone would have just done a paint over or thumbnail of this for me
    Lol, dude, the first page is all ppl telling you to play around with some thumbs, no need really for anyone to do them for you. They take minutes...literally minutes to finish.

    Just a keep it simple.

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  15. #73
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    I'll have to admit that the warrior in the new image looks like a woman. I don't know if you did change him to a woman deliberately, but the brestplate, larger hip size exaggerated by the loin-cloth-thingy (don't know what they call those things) flowing like that and slender shins/lower legs give that sort of "amazon warrior" look to me.

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  16. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnailsPace View Post
    Lol, dude, the first page is all ppl telling you to play around with some thumbs, no need really for anyone to do them for you. They take minutes...literally minutes to finish.

    Just a keep it simple.
    snail.....this looks like computer code lol
    if I do a thumb it looks like these haha then I just move shit around
    I'm gunna keep these circles in mind though not sure if my brain can function on this level or not..it's almost not a visual.

     

  17. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    I'll have to admit that the warrior in the new image looks like a woman. I don't know if you did change him to a woman deliberately, but the brestplate, larger hip size exaggerated by the loin-cloth-thingy (don't know what they call those things) flowing like that and slender shins/lower legs give that sort of "amazon warrior" look to me.
    since it's just a thumbnail the guy looks smaller and I didn't paint the armor on as thick this time just place holders for where his clothes will be.The real version he will get a full body makeover with larger muscles and what not.

     

  18. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIIzoeIII View Post
    snail.....this looks like computer code lol
    if I do a thumb it looks like these haha then I just move shit around
    I'm gunna keep these circles in mind though not sure if my brain can function on this level or not..it's almost not a visual.
    Of course those circles are just representative. You can replace them with any shape you want.

     

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  20. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIIzoeIII View Post
    not sure if my brain can function on this level or not..it's almost not a visual.
    Red is hot, blue is cool. white is a light source, neutral grey is... neutral. Its not computer code, and its not meant to be pretty. it is an utilitarian example to show that even a few dots can be enough visual information to get a point across. If you want I'll draw you another picture showing you the best way not to come across like a condescending prick all the time, and how to be appreciative when ppl take time to try and help you.

    As for me, I'm out of patience, I've tried to stay cool and keep a level head with you, but I'm about 3 shades shy of setting on fire. I don't know if your trying to be funny, start a flame thread, or if your really just an asshole that can't take constructive criticism, either way, this thread is ranked a 1. Booooooooo

     

  21. #78
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    who on earth is venger and javier?...
    Both are excellent artists and experts at paintovers, though thats just my personal opinion and others may differ...

    The real reason I quoted you to mention them is because you seem to deal with visual help rather than written crits so if they had popped in here, you might have reached your latest update much sooner. And it is much better than your first post. It reads like a proper painting now with recognisable figures and a clear action. Really good stuff and a vast improvement.

    As for harsh critiques, people being rude, telling you to go back to Deviant Art etc?

    Well, thats a complex can of worms and for the most part, I'm with Artfix re harsh critiques. I think they're necessary for people to improve their art, regardless of whether they're professionals or hobbyists, but I also don't like to see unecessary rudeness. The way I see it, people don't have to be arseholes to give a constructive if harsh critique so I have mixed feelings about that. But it's all about context for me and in this thread, I'd say the critiques have all been very necessary. If they hadnt been so harsh, you might not have got to the stage you're at with this piece.

    Not so sure why everyone has a downer on this Deviant Art site though. I'm not a member and I've only browsed there a couple of times, on recommendations from people I know who've come across something they wanted to show me. I get that it's more about showcasing work and less about critiques, which is why I never joined, but the attitude towards it here is pretty poor and doesn't really reflect well on the members of this forum.

    Anyway, most of my comments are general thoughts and not really relevant to your painting, Zoe. Good luck with it and keep pushing yourself to see what you might be capable of next. Because, no matter how good you might think you are, there's always things you can improve on.

     

  22. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnailsPace View Post
    Lol, dude, the first page is all ppl telling you to play around with some thumbs, no need really for anyone to do them for you. They take minutes...literally minutes to finish.

    Just a keep it simple.
    So you start your paintings like this usually? You pick some color values and create circles for them? I presume it doesn't even matter what the circles are, just as long as the elements in that area will end up cool vs warm, light vs dark?

    Very interesting, I would of never thought to try that. I must admit though that I am not sure how to predict the quality of the painting from the thumbnail so its too early for me to give that a go yet. Is there any way you could provide even further elaboration on your thought process?

     

  23. #80
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    I'm not sure Zoe knows what thumbnails are. I've asked him about it, and countless people have brought it up, and he just ignores it, and says that someone should have told him to do thumbnails!

    The circles example is an EXAMPLE. It's something you would see in a 'how to do composition' book. It means the circles are things...one is your figure, one is the monster. And you figure out where you want them and how they relate in size. Maybe Snail likes to do his thumbs with some warm color and cool color, that's up to him.

    You DON'T start out knowing 'ohhh I want this matix moment of a very large figure jumping on a also very large monster and the man must be in foreground etc'. Maybe that is your first idea, but then you thumbnail, maybe dozens, and I guarantee you will have better ideas as you go.

    Sooo..I'm hoping these from my blog will help. I show a lot of my process on my blog and I always do thumbs. They are BASIC. They are greyscale unless you're sure you are doing a monochrome piece or something.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uWZvUrCl1Z...tar%2Bwips.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GSR67y7Gpp...Thumbs%2B1.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yp5xZZHeda...dds%2Bcopy.jpg

    You can see in the last example. I kept the guy in the foreground in all three thumbs because that was working--I liked it. But I changed the size of the knights behind him. I did several ideas until I arrived at what I thought was best.

    The fact that you skip this and are unwilling to do this is infuriating to the rest of us, Zoe. Lol try to understand that. And then you blamed us for not exploring thumbs FOR you even tho we told you to do it like 100 times.

    Anyway, hope you see the value of thumbnailing!

     

  24. #81
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    snail you have provided me with some interesting info...harsh comments aside..I'm pretty good at weeding out the bad..and when I see it I have no tolerance for it. I think a soft answer goes a lot further than a hard one.You don't have enough patience to deal with people..so you shouldn't critique maybe.Patience is key especially when you come at someone full steam give no visuals and try to run them down as an artist..art is about inspiring people to go further.Just some advice for you on how to approach new and different kinds of people..harsh is never the answer.

    enough of my ranting..thanks again to everyone that helped me along so far.I'm watching more videos on this stuff and I think it's all starting to sink in.I will probably fall into some traps with future projects so I'm sure I'll be back to see if anyone can help me work them out.For the most part I think I have some pretty kickass new tools to problem solve with on my own for now.

    1)don't cut and past
    2)don't smudge
    3)add textures
    4)use more color
    5)cut back on black
    6)really consider the background
    7)take time and compose a picture that has good flow

     

  25. #82
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    Zoe I appreciate your writing down what you learned. Glad you're walking away with something.

    I want to explain one last thing. Snail DOES have patience, for helping students and pros. I don't think any of us have patience for...how to word this...people like you. Not everyone has your view of art and improving. In fact, you are the HUGE minority here on this site--being that you have no goals of being more than an amateur.

    We come from different perspectives--I come from art school where I learned to crit and take crits--I have very thick skin and I recognize someone trying to help me immediately. Other people here have a similar viewpoint. When you tell us to change our viewpoint--to lay back on rules, and to be less harsh...you're telling us to be more like you, and we're not like you. Why don't you be more like us, or meet us halfway? See what I mean?

     

  26. #83
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    [QUOTE=Artfix;3444470]I'm not sure Zoe knows what thumbnails are. I've asked him about it, and countless people have brought it up, and he just ignores it, and says that someone should have told him to do thumbnails!

    I do understand
    but like I was trying to say that I'm so visual that just using circles ans stuff might not be enough to help me visualize a piece before I do it..never the less I'm gunna try it out in the future.I had no idea about thumb-nailing like this though until it was made known to me by snail's pictures.

    I only know how comic book artists "thumbnail" a comic page and all it is..is just a smaller less detailed layout of the page they will enlarge.So the circles and color values is a totally foreign thing to me..or..was.I get how it works now.I've been calling all these different versions of my pic thumbnails cause they are so tiny and have no detail I can pump them out in minutes..I guess even that much work is unnecessary

     

  27. #84
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    Ok I'll put it this way. Thumbnailing is whatever you need to do to help you visualize it with the least amount of work necessary so you can produce the most ideas and find the best one.

    Your 'tiny picture' has a LOT of detail. You have every thing on that guy painted already. Try some silhouette figures in your next thumbnail process.

    I had an instructor in school that published a book called 1001 thumbnails. His name is Joko Budiono and he is awesome. He taught us to do VERYYY simple thumbs..doing the next one that is even just slightly different from the previous one. If its better, then its a step in the right direction. Anyway, look at how many different ideas he comes up with with these.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-H4Zom2zAB4...ils+001-sm.jpg

    Last edited by Artfix; April 27th, 2012 at 04:05 PM.
     

  28. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artfix View Post
    Zoe I appreciate your writing down what you learned. Glad you're walking away with something.

    I want to explain one last thing. Snail DOES have patience, for helping students and pros. I don't think any of us have patience for...how to word this...people like you. Not everyone has your view of art and improving. In fact, you are the HUGE minority here on this site--being that you have no goals of being more than an amateur.

    We come from different perspectives--I come from art school where I learned to crit and take crits--I have very thick skin and I recognize someone trying to help me immediately. Other people here have a similar viewpoint. When you tell us to change our viewpoint--to lay back on rules, and to be less harsh...you're telling us to be more like you, and we're not like you. Why don't you be more like us, or meet us halfway? See what I mean?
    I think me drawing things the way I do and taking your advice on composition is meeting you in the middle which is all I wanted to do the entire time.I think some of what I do is really good.I have a certain few things I came here for and that's all.I think everyone was getting too critical as to how I portray the world with my style and that's where I thought it was over stepping..I'm not mad though I think my journey has yet begun and I got what I was looking for.As far as being a pro..I don't think it matters to me I post my stuff all over the place I want to share it and I want it to be good so critiquing is something I needed.My strong suits are anatomy and designing characters so you can see how easily I fall into pinup artist..and I desperately wanted to get out of that hole and yet still be able to have my figures a decent size which is why I was dead set on keeping the hero in this picture big enough to still be a figure piece and not a landscape.

     

  29. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artfix View Post
    Ok I'll put it this way. Thumbnailing is whatever you need to do to help you visualize it with the least amount of work necessary so you can produce the most ideas and find the best one.

    Your 'tiny picture' has a LOT of detail. You have every thing on that guy painted already. Try some silhouette figures in your next thumbnail process.
    WILL DO.

     

  30. #87
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    Hey Zoe - not sure if you read my link on critique...no big deal either way. And yeah, I don't usually help folks that are just doing the hobby thing, but I kind of feel there's been a lot of mis-reads in your thread, just due to the lack of face to face communication.

    Anyway, all that aside, if you really want to improve your work and process, etc., for whatever reason, I would really recommend you get Gurney's book, "Imaginitve Realism".
    Probably the best book for introducing you to the idea of teh process that goes into creating an image...thumbnails, value studies, reference gathering, color roughs, final drawings, etc.

    Good luck man!

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  31. #88
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    Artfix just for fun I think this might also be helpful to me
    from this link:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uWZvUrCl1Z...tar%2Bwips.jpg

    which one of these became your final and why.

     

  32. #89
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    # 6 became this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-glPBEvORa2...aspenAltar.jpg

    That is the one the client liked best
    And if you ever do work for someone, don't show them the thumbs that you hate because they will choose them! Which is also the reason they are a little more refined with a sense of light source--because the client needed to be able to tell what was going on--not just myself.

    Then I think the client said there should be more villians around yadda yadda.

    I remember liking #1 because of the gesture of the villain pointing. It really looks like she's saying "look at this TRAITOR--we MUST kill him!!" lol
    The problem with #1 and #2 is that the one being sacrificed had to have butterfly wings and u couldn't see them well enough if he wa son his back like that.

     

  33. #90
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    interesting....so in the end number 6 even became quite different than the original thumb.
    I was just curious cause I thought they all had pretty good composition the 1st one is the one I thought looked the best.I liked the pointing, the back light, and the beast head hanging over.

     

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