Color theory
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 32

Thread: Color theory

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Color theory

    Hello,

    have a question about coloring. Sorry to pop in unannounced, wanted to write a PN to someone but didn't work. So I have to ask somewhere in public forum and it's very much going on everywhere and so I don't know where to ask. I hope this is half-way the right place.

    I'm pretty new to painting and unsure about the colors to choose. I searched about that here and found out that most people recommend to do value studies (which I will do) first before using color.

    A friend of mine is good at coloring (I can't ask him in personal atm) and he often uses the whole palette for skin colors and the skin he does looks alive and shining while I use (because of insecurity which colors to choose) skin tones and so what I do looks grey, brown, pale and boring. He told me to use some blue or red but I don't know where or why. There's also these paintings where portraits are done in completely not skin-toned colors and they don't look wrong either. I don't get why and how to do this.

    When I try to choose a palette for a portrait I pick the main tone first. Then the insecurities start - I don't know how to pick the darker tone for shadows (should it be more saturated or less, or the same? Or doesn't that matter?) and the highlight one. I also never know if it is enough to pick 3 and how to blend them together. I usually pick 5 to blend them but the result often looks washed-out.
    I also never use functions in PS like multiply or stuff - should I? I never saw why this should come in handy, I prefer the old fashioned way of doing it without those tricks before.

    There's also this effect you often see in very good paintings (and you can see it in photos of the sky often) when colors seem to shine very bright and you think: "Hey, this must be a very bright orange", and when you pick it, it's pretty greyish and not bright at all, it just looks like that because of his interaction with the colors around.

    How can I start to learn this? I already know about the color wheel and even if the fact above confuses me, I have a good eye for colors, I can pick them very well after reference. I'm just confused when I have to choose them by my own.

    When I have a grey value-studies-painting I'm insecure as well - how to go from that to color? Doesn't it matter which colors I choose as long as the value is the same?

    So can you give me a few hints how to start? Of course I looked at tutorials and well, I will do those value studies. This place is just so flooded with tuts and tips and links and videos I can't see the wood for the trees.

    Greetings,
    Coffee (decaf, of course!)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    dpaint's Avatar
    dpaint is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,649
    Thanks
    2,622
    Thanked 5,879 Times in 2,355 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    First, when starting out you need to work traditionally not digitally. Mix your color charts; that will teach you how to mix color. Read up on color theory, something like James Gurney Color and Light and work form life not photos. You can't just jump into this in the middle without any understanding. Color is relative, which means there is no formula that will tell you what color the shadows are or the lights are. Everything depends on the environment the figure is in and the angle and quality of the light sources.

    Last edited by dpaint; April 22nd, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerKaffee View Post
    There's also these paintings where portraits are done in completely not skin-toned colors and they don't look wrong either. I don't get why and how to do this.
    Tha's because the tones are right. What you need more , when you start , is right tones, which means you must first learn how to draw.

    You must remember something. If you choose your lights to be cool , then shadows must be warm. If you choose your lights to be warm, then shadows must be cool.

    Something else..if you are painting for example a red vase, then, you must not use red as local colour and then red+white for highlights. You must create another colour. Mix it with something else.


    And what's more important I believe is to know when to neutrilize something. Everything we see is gray.(I mean neutrialized,not black+white gray) . That means there are times when you must mix red and green, blue and orange, yellow and purple in order to create the right colours.

    2 ways of making grays, mixing complimentary colours and mixing cool with warm colours. You may also make gray mixing black+white and use it into other colours to neutralize them. so 3 ways.

    When grays are next to non-neutralized colours, then those that are not neutralized look more vibrant.

    You must know when to put complimentary colours next to each other.

    All these must be practised. Again and again. There is no shortcut.

    Different colour for shadows, different colours for mid tones , different colour for hightlights, having always in your mind cools,warms, complimentary colours, semi-complimentary colours etc

    And..paintings balance through diagonals. If you put a redish colour up right, then you should put redish colour down left. You must do this all the time. A colour cannot be only in one spot. Otherwise there is no unity.

    Unity is veeeeery important. You must always think of the whole.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    And dpaint is right. Start traditionally.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #5
    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Fallingwater
    Posts
    5,059
    Thanks
    1,516
    Thanked 5,150 Times in 1,700 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    There's also these paintings where portraits are done in completely not skin-toned colors and they don't look wrong either.

    That's because the tones are right.
    If by tones you mean values, that definitely isn't correct. Senseless color can destroy both a solid value statement and a solid statement of form in values. (I happen to know a color-blind painter who will ruin his perfectly fine value and form statements with bad color.) Color that works, works for a reason, even if you don't yet understand how or why it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    And..paintings balance through diagonals. If you put a redish colour up right, then you should put redish colour down left. You must do this all the time.
    Not true. Where did you hear this? This is one of those "rules" that isn't a rule. Balance is a decorative design principle only.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    A colour cannot be only in one spot. Otherwise there is no unity.
    Another rule that isn't true. Again, where did you get this from? It would be good to know so we can unrecommend the source.

    Last edited by kev ferrara; April 22nd, 2012 at 01:20 PM.
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to kev ferrara For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    2,034
    Thanks
    3,766
    Thanked 1,051 Times in 586 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    If by tones you mean values, that definitely isn't correct. Senseless color can destroy both a solid value statement and a solid statement of form in values.
    This. For some reason, I've heard the line that if you have solid values, the color will take care of itself thrown around a lot, and on its face that's obviously not true. The monthly threads asking about why color overlays on grayscale images look like shit testify to that. Probably better to say that good values won't guarantee good color, but to get good color you need good values. (And honestly, I'm sure we could find plenty of exceptions to the latter, but I can't think of any at the moment.)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sidharth Chaturvedi For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Joining the chorus: just because value is the most important element of color for creating form, doesn't mean it's the only important one in terms of the piece as a whole. Also, it's incorrect to think in terms of value vs. color, rather, think of color as being made up of value, hue, and chroma. The first can exist independently, but the second two cannot. Most of the time, when people have trouble moving from monochrome to full color, it's a chroma problem.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    If by tones you mean values, that definitely isn't correct. Senseless color can destroy both a solid value statement and a solid statement of form in values. (I happen to know a color-blind painter who will ruin his perfectly fine value and form statements with bad color.) Color that works, works for a reason, even if you don't yet understand how or why it works.



    Not true. Where did you hear this? This is one of those "rules" that isn't a rule. Balance is a decorative design principle only.



    Another rule that isn't true. Again, where did you get this from? It would be good to know so we can unrecommend the source.

    I didn't say they are rules, I said my opinion. And yes, most people lack unity in their works because of wrong colour compisition. And I was talking about colour composition, not decorative desing. These are 2 different things. And I got that from my teachers whose work can be seen here : http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/dimitris-mytaras
    http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/panayiotis-tetsis

    That's what I believe it's good not to always use it but have it in mind. I even don't do what I said all the time

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #9
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    If something isn't a "rule," stay away from language like "must," and "should always."


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    If something isn't a "rule," stay away from language like "must," and "should always."
    No. I can talk as I like. Who am I to make rules?

    You must be a fool to believe I'm talking about rules. And you must be a fool to follow what I say. Are you a fool? You won't tell me how I talk. Read it. You like it or not it has nothing to do with me. I want obligate anyone to do what I say. I said my opionion. What I believe could be done to make a good work. My way of seeing things. What's the problem?

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    If by tones you mean values, that definitely isn't correct. Senseless color can destroy both a solid value statement and a solid statement of form in values. (I happen to know a color-blind painter who will ruin his perfectly fine value and form statements with bad color.) Color that works, works for a reason, even if you don't yet understand how or why it works.



    Not true. Where did you hear this? This is one of those "rules" that isn't a rule. Balance is a decorative design principle only.



    Another rule that isn't true. Again, where did you get this from? It would be good to know so we can unrecommend the source.

    And something else.. You said ''not true''. How do you know?
    And please..you can not unrecommend those painters just because you don't like their opinion. Doing what I say they have made magnificent wokrs. Don't act like you know everything

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #12
    Elwell's Avatar
    Elwell is offline Sticks Like Grim Death Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,212
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,666 Times in 5,020 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm not telling you to do anything, simply offering advice. It's easy to be misinterpreted when one is writing in other than one's native language. There are subtleties in grammar and vocabulary that are important, especially when we don't have the luxury of tone of voice and facial expression to help guide us.


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elwell For This Useful Post:


  18. #13
    kev ferrara is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Fallingwater
    Posts
    5,059
    Thanks
    1,516
    Thanked 5,150 Times in 1,700 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Ezion,

    Actually, I like the work of your teachers. Possibly you have slightly misunderstood them or they have slightly misspoken. It happens.

    You gave no indication that your first post contained opinions. That's okay if you want to clarify now that they were your opinions. Opinions are fine. "Musts" are an indication that rules are being spoken of.

    The reason I know that the points I said were wrong are wrong, is because I know somebody who can make a bad painting with correct values, I know of a whole bunch of compositions that work excellently which do not have diagonal balance of color and a raft of other compositions which have colors which only appear in one unique spot.

    Last edited by kev ferrara; April 22nd, 2012 at 02:54 PM.
    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

    My "Smilechild" Music. Plus a medley of Commercial Music Cues and a Folksy Jingle!:
    http://www.myspace.com/kevferrara
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to kev ferrara For This Useful Post:


  20. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    Ezion,

    Actually, I like the work of your teachers. Possibly you have slightly misunderstood them or they have slightly misspoken. It happens.

    You gave no indication that your first post contained opinions. That's okay if you want to clarify now that they were your opinions. Opinions are fine. "Musts" are an indication that rules are being spoken of.

    The reason I know that the points I said were wrong are wrong, is because I know somebody who can make a bad painting with correct values, I know of a whole bunch of compositions that work excellently which do not have diagonal balance of color and a raft of other compositions which have colors which only appear in one unique spot.
    Yeah my first post was opinions.

    I did not say that correct values makes good painting, but it's something important. Colours should of course have some kind of relationship.

    What I mean when saying that you should not put a colour in one spot only is that in my opinion, when you do that a lot, the painting lacks unity..you can put though a colour in just one place in order to emphasize something. My opinion.

    And more in particular it's Mytaras that talked about diagonals and he is right I know what I'm talking about. I have seen it in his work, in my work, in many many great works

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #15
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    I know what I'm talking about. I have seen it in his work, in my work, in many many great works
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    Don't act like you know everything
    Finally...an expert in the house!

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  23. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    2,337
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 2,199 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    And more in particular it's Mytaras that talked about diagonals and he is right I know what I'm talking about. I have seen it in his work, in my work, in many many great works
    Er. A bit of logic, here.

    Just because "many" good paintings follow the diagonal rule, it does not follow that all paintings with the diagonal rule look good, nor does it follow that all good paintings follow the diagonal rule, nor does it follow that all paintings without the diagonal rule look bad.

    Fact: You have seen good paintings that follow the diagonal rule.

    Fact: Kev has seen good paintings that don't follow the diagonal rule.

    Conclusion: It ain't no universal rule.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to QueenGwenevere For This Useful Post:


  25. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenGwenevere View Post
    Er. A bit of logic, here.

    Just because "many" good paintings follow the diagonal rule, it does not follow that all paintings with the diagonal rule look good, nor does it follow that all good paintings follow the diagonal rule, nor does it follow that all paintings without the diagonal rule look bad.

    Fact: You have seen good paintings that follow the diagonal rule.

    Fact: Kev has seen good paintings that don't follow the diagonal rule.

    Conclusion: It ain't no universal rule.
    I said it works, not that it is the only thing that works. I said that because he said ''not true'' while it is. I didn't say there aren't other ways

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Finally...an expert in the house!
    I said what works for me and others, and yes you cannot say ''not true'' while something works. And I was not absolute. There are many ways. I talked about the way I do it. What, yes, MUST be done according to me. It's MY opinion.

    And yes, maybe I am an ''expert''. Who do you think you are to judge that? please.. people can not say their opinion here the way they want can they?..

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,002
    Thanks
    891
    Thanked 1,010 Times in 539 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You obviously missed the joke of Jeff's post. Which is simply pointing out you telling someone else to not act like they know everything when in your post you say you know what your talking about.

    Anyways....
    We get it, it's your opinion. But other peoples opinion is that your opinion is wrong. They're stating their opinion.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JFierce For This Useful Post:


  29. #20
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Well, thanks for that..delighting discussion

    Ehm. So I started to practice value studies yesterday and it was against my expectations (that boring gray) fun and helpful.

    Values are definitely something I have to work on, so I'll continue.

    All information I can find always includes those color weels and theory about light but I was hoping for something that explains how to find colors for skin that look alive, how to set up a palette before painting...

    I managed to ask that friend of mine how he does his coloring. His answer was discouraging - he just finds a picture where he likes the colors, loads it in PS and picks the colors out of it. I doubt I can learn much by that. I tried copying some pictures in PS but I don't understand much why they are colored as they are and I have trouble finding the main colors. I usually get lost in side nuances.

    So what are warm colors? I know, red and orange and yellow but when does a color stop being warm and gets cold? When is green warm and when cold?

    Dpaint, thanks for the advice. Which colors would you use for that? Water colors? Oil? Acrylics? I will definitely have look at the book, thanks for that.

    Would you recommend using red, blue and yellow only? And are black and white used too or not?

    And yeah, I have big chroma troubles, too I usually pick too saturated colors cause I don't know the trick to make colors shine with other colors.

    I found ezions post rather helpful. At least it has some stuff in it I can try.

    When grays are next to non-neutralized colours, then those that are not neutralized look more vibrant.
    So does that mean that more saturated colors look more vibrant than less saturated? Or is neutralized something different?

    Last edited by SchwarzerKaffee; April 30th, 2012 at 03:39 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  30. #21
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    I said what works for me and others, and yes you cannot say ''not true'' while something works. And I was not absolute. There are many ways. I talked about the way I do it. What, yes, MUST be done according to me. It's MY opinion.

    And yes, maybe I am an ''expert''. Who do you think you are to judge that? please.. people can not say their opinion here the way they want can they?..
    Look man...maybe it's a non-native language thing...I don't know. You're coming off here as a know-it-all and your statements are worded as fact and rules, not opinions.

    People are more than welcome to share their opinions...it is usually proper ettiquette to state it is your opinion and not be defensive about it when challenged. Your opinions will also be challenged if you can't back them up...you can't yet.

    Your attitude thus far here has been abrasive, offensive and unwelcome. You're likely to have a pretty short, frustrating and unpleasant time here if you keep it up.

    And just so you know, where I come from "Who do you think you are to judge that?" are fighting words. In real life it would have worked.

    So, some friendly advice, for your own good, dial it down, mellow out, back off a bit and you'll get along fine here.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  32. #22
    dpaint's Avatar
    dpaint is offline Registered User Level 16 Gladiator: Spartacus' Retiarii
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,649
    Thanks
    2,622
    Thanked 5,879 Times in 2,355 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I started with red, yellow, blue and white oil paints. Make sure you have the red and blue darker than the yellow out of the tube. Ultramarine Blue, Alizarin Crimson Permanent, Cadmium Yellow Light and Titanium White is what I used as a limited palette. I mixed everything else from those colors. If you go to my sketchbook you will see a number of figures and landscapes painted from life using that palette. Richard Schmid's book Alla Prima has a good explanation of how to make your color charts using his palette but the information applies to whatever colors you choose.

    The terms warm and cool are relative terms to the colors around it. They are generalizations that can work in the broadest sense but aren't really accurate. For accuracy I recommend looking at Munsell and his ideas about color or Frank Reilly who taught the practical application of Munsell theory applied to painting.

    Last edited by dpaint; April 23rd, 2012 at 02:46 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  33. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to dpaint For This Useful Post:


  34. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    Look man...maybe it's a non-native language thing...I don't know. You're coming off here as a know-it-all and your statements are worded as fact and rules, not opinions.

    People are more than welcome to share their opinions...it is usually proper ettiquette to state it is your opinion and not be defensive about it when challenged. Your opinions will also be challenged if you can't back them up...you can't yet.

    Your attitude thus far here has been abrasive, offensive and unwelcome. You're likely to have a pretty short, frustrating and unpleasant time here if you keep it up.

    And just so you know, where I come from "Who do you think you are to judge that?" are fighting words. In real life it would have worked.

    So, some friendly advice, for your own good, dial it down, mellow out, back off a bit and you'll get along fine here.

    let's stop it here..most problems occured because I'm not an expert at talking english. ''Must'' set on fire some people here..while it shouldn't..i'm not coming here as a know-it-all guy..I know some things and tried to share them. Wrong..
    please..don't say again I was talking like I was making rules because I did not(it just seemed like that)..and I got offensive yeah..because of guys trying madly to prove me wrong instead of answering to the thread..

    And just to know..I talked about things proven in front of my eyes..not fantasies..that is why I defended my self like mad..so my mistake and sorry to you guys..but never did I and never will I say there aren't other ways..I'm not stupid..

    Can we get along or should I leave? I'm asking seriously.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  35. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerKaffee View Post
    Well, thanks for that..delighting discussion

    Ehm. So I started to practice value studies yesterday and it was against my expectations (that boring gray) fun and helpful.

    Values are definitely something I have to work on, so I'll continue.

    All information I can find always includes those color weels and theory about light but I was hoping for something that explains how to find colors for skin that look alive, how to set up a palette before painting...

    I managed to ask that friend of mine how he does his coloring. His answer was discouraging - he just finds a picture where he likes the colors, loads it in PS and picks the colors out of it. I doubt I can learn much about that. I tried copying some pictures in PS but I don't understand much why they are colored as they are and I have trouble finding the main colors. I usually get lost in side nuances.

    So what are warm colors? I know, red and orange and yellow but when does a color stop being warm and gets cold? When is green warm and when cold?

    Dpaint, thanks for the advice. Which colors would you use for that? Water colors? Oil? Acrylics? I will definitely have look at the book, thanks for that.

    Would you recommend using red, blue and yellow only? And are black and white used too or not?

    And yeah, I have big chroma troubles, too I usually pick too saturated colors cause I don't know the trick to make colors shine with other colors.

    I found ezions post rather helpful. At least it has some stuff in it I can try.



    So does that mean that more saturated colors look more vibrant than less saturated? Or is neutralized something different?
    hey there, and sorry for ruining a part of your thread That was not my intention. My puprose was exactly what you said. Just some things you can try and see for yourself if it works for you . I'm glad.

    Yes, as far as I am concerned more saturated colours look more vibrant when less saturated are around. Yes neutralized colours are less saturated colours. You might find usuful having in your mind what colour neutrilizes another colour. For example, if you mix pthalo blu ( which containts green in it) with a red colour you won't get a purple. Not a strong one. That's because green that is inside blue neutrilizes with red so it loses intensity. So if you keep neutralizing (even a little) colours while you paint (for example when you want to put some yellow somewhere, you mix it with a little purple) and then paint some spots or whatever you want with colours you have not neutralized these colours will look more vibrant. Same thing happenes if you use many cool colours and then paint something with warm. The contrast is evident. Same thing with complementary colours. If you use for example blue and orange these two produce contrast ( I don't know if produce is the right word...)

    oh, and something else. neutralized colours are the ''grays'' as you might have heard. The fact that they are called grays does not mean they are actually gray (like black+ white) .

    What I meant when I talked about tones was that if you get the tones right you can pretty well get the effect of 3 dimensions which is, I think, important. Colour of course should have some kind of relationship and not be senseless.(at least that's something I try to do)

    I believe, in my opinion, that painting is (not only) about contrasts. Contrasts between all those colours, tone, masses ( filled and not filled space, small planes and large planes) ,schematic contrasts ( edges, curves, square objects and circular objects )

    I hope you find these helpful. Try them your own, experiment and you'll find your way.

    Again, I'm sorry for the other comments

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  36. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ezion For This Useful Post:


  37. #25
    JeffX99's Avatar
    JeffX99 is offline Registered User Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    5,234
    Thanks
    3,512
    Thanked 4,896 Times in 2,544 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ezion View Post
    let's stop it here..most problems occured because I'm not an expert at talking english. ''Must'' set on fire some people here..while it shouldn't..i'm not coming here as a know-it-all guy..I know some things and tried to share them. Wrong..
    please..don't say again I was talking like I was making rules because I did not(it just seemed like that)..and I got offensive yeah..because of guys trying madly to prove me wrong instead of answering to the thread..

    And just to know..I talked about things proven in front of my eyes..not fantasies..that is why I defended my self like mad..so my mistake and sorry to you guys..but never did I and never will I say there aren't other ways..I'm not stupid..

    Can we get along or should I leave? I'm asking seriously.
    No problem - that's a much better approach and we understand there are bound to be some communication difficulties. Believe it or not people were actually being pretty gentle about it and I think aware of the translation problems. It will be important for you to also keep that in mind, that the communication may be the biggest part of the problem from both sides.

    Again a bit of advice is to avoid personal challenges and being overly defensive. If it opinion, make sure you say that up front (at the start). It also helps to say this is one way of solving the problem, or this is how "this artist" handles that kind of problem, even "I do this when I paint". I hope this comes through translation fairly well.

    Edit: That last post had some really good stuff in it...much better than the initial post in this thread - good job.

    What would Caravaggio do?
    _________________________

    Portfolio
    Plein Air
    Digital
    Still Life
    Sight Measuring
    Fundamentals
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to JeffX99 For This Useful Post:


  39. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffX99 View Post
    No problem - that's a much better approach and we understand there are bound to be some communication difficulties. Believe it or not people were actually being pretty gentle about it and I think aware of the translation problems. It will be important for you to also keep that in mind, that the communication may be the biggest part of the problem from both sides.

    Again a bit of advice is to avoid personal challenges and being overly defensive. If it opinion, make sure you say that up front (at the start). It also helps to say this is one way of solving the problem, or this is how "this artist" handles that kind of problem, even "I do this when I paint". I hope this comes through translation fairly well.

    Edit: That last post had some really good stuff in it...much better than the initial post in this thread - good job.
    I'm glad. I really didn't want to argue with anyone.

    Thanks, I tried to be more explanatory and less absolute. I hope it worked

    Last edited by ezion; April 24th, 2012 at 07:32 AM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to ezion For This Useful Post:


  41. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kansas city, MO
    Posts
    1,167
    Thanks
    1,423
    Thanked 867 Times in 333 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    So you're new to the forum, didn't post any examples, don't have a sketchbook, have a friend but for some reason can't ask him/her, and you want in depth answers from professionals. I don't think you're really serious about it. It would be like asking "How does Bernini sculpt like that." We have no idea what level you are at so the information offered might be a waste of our time and may hurt your development. Paint something from life of photo, post it, and I'm positive you will be helped here.

    Jay's CA.org Sketchbook:
    Jay's Conceptart.org sketchbook

    Check out my portfolio:
    http://jasonrossart.carbonmade.com

    Check out my blog:
    http://mind2pixels.blogspot.com

    "Practice" DOES NOT make perfect...
    "Perfect Practice" makes perfect...
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  42. #28
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    187
    Thanked 1,366 Times in 319 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SchwarzerKaffee View Post
    Hello,

    have a question about coloring.
    You actually had about a dozen explicit or implicit questions, which is a good sign - you have an enquiring mind! If you just ask questions like these ones you'll get plenty of "rules"/opinions, however if you focus on increasing your own basic understanding of colour and light you'll be able to work out for yourself the answer these questions, along with the dozens of others that will go through your mind every time you paint.

    From what you've written I think dpaint's suggestion of James Gurney's Color and Light would be the best starting point. That together with my own site (liked below), plus plenty of experience putting this information to work, hopefully should point you to the understanding you need to answer all of your questions. There's also a link to a colour theory discussion thread if you'd like information relevant to any specific questions (one at a time, please!).

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  43. The Following User Says Thank You to briggsy@ashtons For This Useful Post:


  44. #29
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks again to dpaint, ezion and briggsy, for the advice. I get now after your answers and asking some other painters in personal how they do it that it's a lot of trying for yourself instead of finding THE rules who decide how to do coloring (it's a bit of a flaw of mine to search for definite rules I can follow in everything).

    Saw your huge thread, briggsy, read a bit in it and almost asked in there but then it looked too abusive so I made my own

    Jason, I get your point and of course you can't give too much help here without examples and stuff. My main request just was to find a guide and/or very general advice how to get started cause I felt kinda buried in information and threads and tutorials but well, somehow seem unable to find a single one about f.e. how to choose skin colors.
    Well now I know that it isn't that simple, can't be answered in general and that it is work I have to do on my own...finding out and stuff. Experimenting with color.

    But I'll surely come back when I have more specific questions (with examples then )

    So thank you all and see ya.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  45. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    737
    Thanks
    477
    Thanked 497 Times in 270 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    Most of the time, when people have trouble moving from monochrome to full color, it's a chroma problem.
    Wait. I want to know more about this. Do you mean things like not understanding the value of a particular color because of its intensity? (I apologize for what is most likely horribly inaccurate language.)

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 1

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •