Art: Bargue Drawing Plate 1-1
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  1. #1
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    Question Bargue Drawing Plate 1-1

    I'm not sure, but I think this is the correct forum for this topic. I am currently working in the Bargue Drawing Course with Plate 1-1. I'm doing it at home by myself. I couldn't afford a teacher. Anyway, I have some questions at this point, and was hoping somebody could answer them.

    One: What does the term high points mean in this study? I have the Bargue Drawing Companion DVD, and they mention marking the high points; but, I have never heard that term used before, and I was hoping somebody could explain it to me.

    Two: What is the fastest way to make the guidelines? I'm currently using a T-Square, but it is hugely time consuming. I was thinking about printing out the guidelines and was wondering if anybody would know how to do that?

    Three: Is there a way to train the brain to avoid making the same mistakes over and over? It seems that no matter how many times I do one of the exercises, I make the same mistakes every time. I was wondering if there was a method for overcoming this problem.

    I'm really kind of slow to figure out things. So, if these are stupid questions I apologize in advance.

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    I m assuming in the DVD they tell you to enlarge the plates. What I did for mine is for the eye plate is you take half of the plate and enlarge it to a full A4 then the same for the other half. I think it makes it about as large as what they originally where. Then for the later plates what I d do is if the page had a finished drawing and a blockin example I d enlarge the finished drawing to a full A4 as well. For the full page drawings I d enlarge them to a A3.

    1- I think what they would be talking about is highest/lowest/leftest/rightest points in the drawing. Not sure as I havent seen the video.

    2- You mean like the plumb lines? T-square sounds good although I m not sure how thats hugely time consuming. Dont your just make a str8 90 degree relative to the top of the drawing paper line? Then just make sure that your plate and your drawing paper are angled properly with a level imo. What I ve done for the larger drawings is just put the drawing and the paper up on my wall then literally hang a piece of thin string with a weight on the bottom and then tape them down onto the page once they are hanging str8. Do this for both the plate and your drawing paper and should be fine.

    3- What mistakes are you making. Like your not measuring well or the lines arent perfect or something? This is a very complex question and I m not really a expert in learning or teaching so I think we need more infos on exactly whats going on.

    Dont despair. These are challenging drawings but they reward diligent effort imo. I spent a good portion of last year plugging through them and figuring out best ways to go about it.

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    Yes, I am doing that for the eye plates. I enlarge each one to the size of my printer paper, and I work from that.

    One: Yes, I think that is what they mean also, because the book mentions it that same way you just did; but, I'm still not sure what they mean by that.

    Two: No, I don't use a plumb line. I couldn't ever tie a good knot to hold the weight at the end. In the video they said the guidelines had to be identical in length and width. So, I am using a light box, placing my paper on top of the printed original, and then using my T-Square to make sure the lines are straight. However, it is majorly time consuming, and as a result, a lot of time is wasted just making the guide lines.

    Three: Most of my mistakes seem to be on the upper part of the eye. Like the eyelid and on further up. The mistakes are they don't line up correctly. So a line is either too straight, too much of a curve, too low, too high, or not long or short enough. However, it is always on the upper part of the eye. Unfortunately, no matter how many times I do the same eye, the mistakes never change.... Bummer. Now, my dots I make on the guidelines while using the knitting needle a in perfect alignment. It is just my lines that aren't perfect.

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    One: I haven't heard the term high points in regard to Bargue plates. The object is to find the large mass of the drawing and refine from there. You do this by placing the vertical and horizontal guidelines on your page as they are on the plate that you're copying. Measure all of the larger masses from these lines. Once the larger shapes are correct, move on to refining the drawing by further articulating the larger shapes and making them more specific.

    Two: The outlines (guidelines) of the drawing are drawn freehand. That is the purpose of the exercise, to teach you to see and draw without crutches. Use the t-square only on the initial horizontal and vertical guidelines.

    Three: Repetition is the only way to overcome making the same mistakes. Take your time and draw one line at a time and move on to the next line sequentially only after you are certain that your first line is correct. If your initial line work of the large masses are incorrect every line in the refining process will be wrong. A beautifully detailed home can't be built without a proper and sound foundation.

    Last edited by Raptors; April 22nd, 2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: spelling
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    I think your making this more complicated then it has to be. Just take your T square and make a vertical reference line down the drawing (if theres not already one there) and on your page. Then make 1 or 2 horizontal ones if you need. Then just get drawing. I m sure that dvd explains the steps for accurately rendering any of these barge drawings better then I ever could.

    Also for the plumb line again doesnt need to be complicated. I took a piece of black sowing string and a larger paper clip and attached it at one end. There you go a thin black line that is perfectly vertical relative to the earth.

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    OK. I just read where somebody took 3 hours to do just one of those eyes. Is that about how long it should be taking? If so that would explain some of why it isn't turning out correctly. Mine took about 3 minutes.

    Raptors,

    What shapes? I saw one rectangle and one triangle. I didn't see any other shapes. I provided an attachment of the one I am working on.

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    Ya 3 minutes/eye is definitely too quick. 3 hrs sounds excessive and if its taking you that long you probably should be thinking about how your approaching it. I d guess that if you made sure to take 20 minutes? to really look at how the major lines are relating to eachother and do your best to copy it. Depends on a lot of factors really how long it "should" take you but I d say off the top of my head a minimum of 20min should be a decent start.

    What do they discuss in this DVD? A lot of these questions your asking I d assume they d cover.

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    OK, I finally had a breakthrough! Thanks everybody for your feedback, it helped me to see where I might be going wrong. There is a lot of thinking and planning involved in doing these drawing exercises (almost like detective work), and I was just rushing through it as quickly as I sign my name.

    Yea, 20 minutes is a good guideline for how long it should take. I'll watch the clock to make sure it takes me at least that long. Slowing down is a challenge for me. Most of my life is spent in high-speed. I guess watching all of those Roadrunner cartoons when I was a kid really did a lot of damage. lol.

    Well, they don't cover everything on the DVD. The instruction is given while working on Plate 1-49. Plus, they don't explain everything, such as the term high points. It is only a little over an hour long DVD, and naturally they approach it assuming you know most of the art/drawing terminology. I've never heard the term high points until I got into this Bargue Drawing Course. Plus, no matter how great the book or DVD is, you always inevitably reach a point where you absolutely need a live teacher. However, I think you all solved my first problem very well. Which is great; because, there are no Bargue Drawing Classes in the Houston or surrounding areas. Plus, I doubt I would have the money for them.

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    Ya slowing down is tough in the speedy world that we live in now. I find it quite rewarding to do so though. One thing that Ive done recently thats really cool is go outside and find a interesting looking tree with a lot of larger branches showing. Then just sit and try to draw it and try to really find its character much like you d draw a person. The bargue drawings are great for teaching you find subtle changes in the contours and use that lesson to find the smallest changes in the contour of the branches. Take as long as you need and trust me you ll never look at a tree the same way again .

    Post up your progress. https://picasaweb.google.com/1118880...eat=directlink
    Heres the ones I did last year.

    Also another thing to keep in mind is that you can use the lessons you learn copying bargues to copy drawings and even paintings by other masters. The bargues are just great for getting started as they are heavily simplified and where designed specifically to teach principles in academic drawing.

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    UGH! I'm still having very little success with this. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. How do ya'll do Plate 1-1? Do you enlarge each individual eye to 8x11 print it out, and then practice with that one; or, do you print out the entire plate at actual size and just practice from that example?

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    Is the DVD teaching sight-size or comparitive measuring? There are a few useful resources on these forums for drawing bargues.

    I never did plate 1-1, but we would always enlarge ours and measure the exact distance to the plumbline from the edge of the paper and plot it on our drawing paper. You would do the same for the horizontal line, but I suppose it's more difficult with so many drawings on one plate. Look here, maybe this coudl also help - http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/bargue-1

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    That DVD is okay. It's clever marketing to call it the 'Companion', so people will buy it alongside the book. My main gripe with that video is that they tell you to copy the schematic block-in first and then start working from the finished drawing on top of it. That's kind of missing the point. The block-ins should just serve as a guide on how to simplify the finished drawing. The block-ins don't always match the finished drawing exactly. On the later drawings you don't have the luxury of being able to copy the intermediate stages, you will have to create your own. The best way to learn how to do that is to do it from the start, using the schematics as a guide.

    Having said that, you can practice your drawing by copying the block ins. That's what I've been doing lately. But it's just because I need some simple drawings to practice my measuring with. If I were to copy a finished Bargue I wouldn't start with copying the schematics, I would only use them as a guide.

    Does that make sense?


    You're definitely making this more complicated than it is.

    High point is just the top most point of the drawing. The peak. It's always important when starting a drawing to mark the top and bottom and try not to step outside them.

    I enlarged the entire plates at a print shop. The DVD should tell you this.

    Copying the guidelines shouldn't take that long. Especially if you're tracing them.

    There's no point in using an actual plumb line of a weight attached to a string and then holding it in the air since you're working from the flat. You can put your measuring tools directly onto the drawings.

    Don't worry about not having a teacher. I did a bunch of Bargue drawings on my own and then later I had a class about it and I didn't learn anything new. The teacher mainly served as a fresh eye, to tell you where your mistakes were. Most of the time was spent working alone. It's a pretty straightforward process.

    The only way to stop making mistakes is to do more drawing. That's the point of the exercise. To train your eye to see mistakes, judge distances etc. Take as long as you need to make them as exact as possible.

    Post your drawings so we can help you better.

    Last edited by nickydraws; June 14th, 2012 at 05:30 AM.
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    nickydraws,

    Now I get it! Perfection isn't an option with this art form. Just do the best I can, and eventually perfection will fall into place. OK. I was under the impression that it had to look as good as what was in the book, or else it was considered a failure on my part. Gives you a good idea at how stressed out I was over it.

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  14. #14
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    OmenSpirits is offline Commercial-Illustrator in-training, NOT an artist. Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    I personally used the book to expand my vision, and it did.

    Always have an intent when it comes to doing bargue's plates. Ask yourself what it is you want out of doing the plate and what's your ultimate goal.

    Last edited by OmenSpirits; August 20th, 2012 at 03:33 PM.
    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
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    Problem solved!! After all this time trying to do the work on an easel and failing miserably. I finally bought me a drawing table. Now, I am able to do this work without an unlimited amount of failed attempts. Looks like when it comes to drawing I'm just not an easel person.

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