video game concept (moved from FF)
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  1. #1
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    video game concept (moved from FF)

    hi
    i recently decided to make my own video game
    so i'm posting one of my battle concepts between
    the assassin and the air commander
    since im new to concept art i would love to
    have a professional critique
    thanks


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    I'm not a pro by any means, but I can give you a critique.
    First off, I have no idea what is happening in this picture.
    Getting the message/story across in an illustration is
    incredibly important. You need to be able to tell the
    audience what is happening without using words.

    Do not overly use digital "effects" to try polish
    a picture. It will only highlight its weaknesses.
    You are going to have to go back and start
    studying real objects and people. The subjects in
    this piece are all completely flat. This is due to a
    lack of understanding of form and lighting. Your
    values are currently all over the place. Do not use
    black to shade or dodge and burn, it will deaden the
    entire image.

    Two books I would recommend for you are both by
    James Gurney:

    Imaginative Realism
    Color and Light: A Guide for the Realist Painter

    Paper and Pencil and life drawing, studying real shapes
    real people, real objects, real clothing, this will all give
    you an creative arsenal and will help you in your career
    more than any digital program.

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  4. #3
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    first of all.. are you a game designer or a concept artist? There very different things. and its gunna be hard to do both.

    If you wanna be a concept artist i would reccomend 1-2 years away from any fantasy art and just learning to draw as SE reccomended.

    Never the best news to hear but... its probably the best honest advice.

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    Cool

    thaks for all the critique
    Star Eater
    unfortunately i have no formal education in 2D or 3D art and i can't afford one
    im trying to learn as i go
    about Getting the message/story across how would you do it?
    how would you show a battle between assassin and a air commander?
    and thanks for the books ill check them out.

    dog-faced
    im working on this game alone so ill have to be all of the above and more
    the good news is that im drawing a lot
    i have already fineshed all of the characters in the game (i cant publish them yet) but i think they will surprise a lot of people
    anyway i'll try to do better next time

    Last edited by moshe one; April 8th, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
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    unfortunately i have no formal education in 2D or 3D art and i can't afford one
    Neither do I. I never told you to get one. I learned by
    just knuckling down and doing studies and of course listening to
    the good people on this forum and I still have a lot to learn.

    abuot Getting the message/story across how would you do it?
    how would you show a battle between assassin and a air commander?
    Personally I would focus less on what their designations are and focus on the combat themselves.
    Simplify it, you have a character on the ground and you have another character attacking in the air.
    Planning the composition and doing thumbnails is what is needed for a dynamic piece like this.
    Bring the characters closer together and use body language and expression to tell us they are
    fighting to the death. That's just my own idea though.

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    The amount of times I've heard or read people say "well I've had no education in art, I have to learn it all by myself so it isn't easy!"...

    As opposed to people who are going to art school, who do have it easy? Honestly, I'm studying Game Art right now and I'll have you know that I've learned very little in school. Art school is not a magical place that transforms you into a fantastic artist, all it does is keep you focused and gives you shittons of homework to do. In other words, you're simply put to work, and that's it. If you're not motivated and you can't study on your own well, art school is not going to make any difference for you. You still have to do all of the actual learning on your own.

    Sorry, just wanted to get that off of my chest. Not necessarily directed to OP.

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  10. #7
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    2 things. the first is about art school. i studied for 4 years and spent most of the larking about and didn't learn a lot. i've only really started pushing myself for the last year and a bit after leaving art school. so being there doesn't mean your going to get any better. i'ts more what you put in. All of the advice you need you can find in books and on the internet. and use all of the nice people here to put you in your place.

    Second; i would pick one aspect of the design pipe line and push to get really good at that... and get yourself in a studio; you can move about after that.

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    Lightbulb

    hi Lhune
    dont get me wrong i'm not complaining,
    and its not about how's working the hardest.
    but you have to agree that you can learn faster and better
    when you have a professional teacher next to you
    then having to guess and wonder if you doing something right
    even now after Star Eater and dog-faced critiques
    i'm still not sure how i could make it better concept.
    mybe it will take me more time then you
    but i'll figure it out aventally

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    hi Lhune
    dont get me wrong i'm not complaining,
    and its not about how's working the hardest.
    but you have to agree that you can learn faster and better
    when you have a professional teacher next to you
    then having to guess and wonder if you doing something right
    even now after Star Eater and dog-faced critiques
    i'm still not sure how i could make it better concept.
    mybe it will take me more time then you
    but i'll figure it out aventally
    You'll find more professionals on this site than you will in most art schools. Mine where all a bunch of washed up failures. You don't have to guess, you put up work and get feedback. You didn't get any feedback on this piece because you'r quite clearly trying to moonwalk before you can stand. It's not a problem as everyone does it. But you need to learn the basics as you dont have the understanding to pull this off. imho.

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    [QUOTE=Second; i would pick one aspect of the design pipe line and push to get really good at that... and get yourself in a studio; you can move about after that.[/QUOTE]

    im not going to write my life story.
    and believe me i went through a lot,
    but let's just say that i'm trying to build somthing
    that does not exist in my country.

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    Well what are you trying to develop? you might be able to build something small on ios or steam. but its a lot of work. You'd be better trying to find volunteers on a small project. then build up like that. Developers like Amanita Design started with a handfull of dedicated guys over the internet. So i would advertise on the job section under oppertunities for som help.

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    im trying to develop a game something like takken
    i'm directing for the consoles. i dont like casual games so much
    they bore me after 10 min
    i'm into real games for real gamers!
    i thought about the smallest game i could do and im doing it.
    but im going to make it awesome

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  17. #13
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    I get a feeling im talking to brick wall here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    im trying to develop a game something like takken
    i'm directing for the consoles. i dont like casual games so much
    they bore me after 10 min
    i'm into real games for real gamers!
    i thought about the smallest game i could do and im doing it.
    but im going to make it awesome
    Okay, seriously. Something like (I assume you mean) Tekken is not something you really can do as your first game. It's nice that you have ambition, but games are really complex things to make, even simple casual games.
    It's not something you really can just decide to suddenly make and then do it. Do you have anyone who can design, code, animate, do flash/pixel/3D/whatever you're doing this in? Do you have money to get these people? Do you have innovation in your game ( I mean if people want to play something like Tekken, they'll just play Tekken, not your game).

    Just have some sense of scale and what you're trying to do (this is kinda the equivalent of you buying your first cheap video camera and the deciding you'll make a real full length blockbuster movie that has a theatrical release). Even if casual games bore you after 10 minutes, it doesn't mean they haven't taken months to make.

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  20. #15
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    Yeah i agree. dude, its cool that you have ideas... but do some research cuz what your planning is really naive.

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    The problem with an idea of this scope is, just that, the scope.
    I imagine your main focus is art, the amount of dedication
    and time you will need to turn your art into effective
    conceptual artwork will seriously conflict
    with trying to get to grips with programming and team management.

    Once you have a stronger grasp on your rendering
    and conceptual skills, see about joining an indie group
    of developers as a conceptual artist. You will get some
    idea of the process and workload involved.
    Just as dog-faced suggested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyBird View Post
    Okay, seriously. Something like (I assume you mean) Tekken is not something you really can do as your first game. It's nice that you have ambition, but games are really complex things to make, even simple casual games.
    It's not something you really can just decide to suddenly make and then do it. Do you have anyone who can design, code, animate, do flash/pixel/3D/whatever you're doing this in? Do you have money to get these people? Do you have innovation in your game ( I mean if people want to play something like Tekken, they'll just play Tekken, not your game).
    what make you think i can't do it?
    i know how to model ,texture, rig and animate
    the only thing i will need help with is the code but that's not a problem
    i can find someone. why should i pay to someone when i can do it myself
    the way i see it... all i need is time
    about the innovation... yaaa i think i do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star Eater View Post
    The problem with an idea of this scope is, just that, the scope.
    I imagine your main focus is art, the amount of dedication
    and time you will need to turn your art into effective
    conceptual artwork will seriously conflict
    with trying to get to grips with programming and team management.
    And well, not just scope, but there's also the problem that when/if your main interest is art and aesthetics this can also seriously cripple your actual game design... Like lets just say that the main important idea in my first game idea was Real Time, Realistic Weather© so that when you walked in the picturesque open sandbox world you could see clouds and how the wind blew in the trees and and predict that it was going to rain soon. This was in the PS2 era. The rest of the game didn't really matter because the idea how pretty the weather would look like took all importance because I was thinking like an artist and had zero understanding of limitations or game design.

    Basically I'm saying it's really easy to get blinded by what you like with this sort of stuff. If you're really interested in making games by yourself, look through stuff like Unity, Blender, Garry's Mod, Flash animation, 3D animation, coding that goes with that and actually study game design and production. But if you're just interested in the art stuff of it, studying those won't hurt either, but it's better to put a lot more effort into improving your art.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    what make you think i can't do it?
    Well, the fact that you are new to this and you seem to think you can do it, for starters. Also the fact that if what you drew up there is the "smallest game you can do" and it has 3D airfights and magic and it's supposed to be like Tekken and for consoles... Yeah. That goes beyond what most actual game studios do these days.

    Personally, if you can manage to do a new version of something like, say Pac-Man, with all the design, art, levels, sounds and coding and you make it available in the web by yourself, I will be amazed because again, even simple games can be deceptively complex, especially if you have no experience in doing them.
    And if you can do that, I suggest you start from that (that's what we did in our school).
    But then again, sometimes you just don't know how hard something is until you fail at it, so... keep us posted how your project goes.

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    Smile

    i know what you mean, and i know how it goes in all the game compenise
    you pick one trade and you stick with it.
    unfortunately i dont have that privilege
    and i have to do what ever i can to succeed.
    you got to work with what you've got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    what make you think i can't do it?
    i know how to model ,texture, rig and animate
    the only thing i will need help with is the code but that's not a problem
    i can find someone. why should i pay to someone when i can do it myself
    the way i see it... all i need is time
    about the innovation... yaaa i think i do
    yeah mate your totally right. why are all these game designers are wasting there money by employing all those needless people when they should just do it all themselves. As well as all the design work, they should cater for themselves, answer all the phone calls, sort out all the finance and clean the studio after they finish for the day.

    Yes your right it is a case of time. Like all your time, every day....for the rest of your natural life... and you need funding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    and i have to do what ever i can to succeed.
    you got to work with what you've got.
    But actually choosing a project you may actually manage to finish properly is not one of these options?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dog-faced View Post
    Yes your right it is a case of time. Like all your time, every day....for the rest of your natural life... and you need funding.
    either i'll succeed or i'll die trying

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    Okay, I'm going to be straight forward now.

    One, overall it looks tacky, lots of messy lines, scruffy inconsistency that makes it look very amateurish. The colours are also very primary school style, nasty greens and badly placed glows. Then the anatomy which is well. lacking.

    My advise and may be a little redundant to apply to this piece but I would say apply to other pieces is; find a good colour scheme. I usually go for harmonies, and made my own pallet. There are colour sites online that find really wonderful colours like this one:
    http://www.colourlovers.com/

    My second piece of advise is learn anatomy, yes; its said to all of us and more of one occasion but the person in the background looks like what my little 14 year old brother would draw ( ouch, sorry! ) its rigid, flat, and he has the funniest figure ever.

    Third, learn form, think in 3D. Find basic objects ( glasses or something first ) then draw it as a whole, not as something flat. everything in your drawing is flat.

    Finally, my critique may of hurt, I'm sorry. But, I do believe a lot of your errors are typical errors people walk into so don't worry, just take it one step at a time! Good luck!!

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    moshe one I can see you have a lot of courage and passion, and that's awesome. Just keep doing what you love and eventually you'll be able to get there (but you must have patience).

    I myself was one of those people who thought they could do everything.. until I found out how wrong I was. The biggest obstacle you will have is TIME. Time is money; money you will be losing on this project while not working at some job that will put food on the table. And you will need A LOT of time.

    Believe me right now I work at a AAA game studio as a programmer.. The amount of man-hours needed for a AAA game is tremendous to say the least. I suggest you start small.

    Your first project WILL fail. Mine did. It happens to everybody. Programming a game is NOT something that you can pick up in a few months of time -- unless you use something like Unity (and think about making a mobile game instead), which I suggest you do!

    Game design is not just having an idea that you think is great. Every game designer has a journal full of ideas. Every game designer thinks their idea is the best thing in the world. Just thinking it doesn't make it true. You have to actually prototype and playtest it with PEOPLE.

    Art skills is also something that cannot be learned in a day, or even several months. But it's actually the most easy thing to learn out of all of these that I mentioned. The reason being that it's somethin that you can learn on your own -- without professional guidance! This means the only obstacle here is, again, TIME, which is ever so precious.


    -------

    Now some crits for your piece. I guess it would only be fair, since you posted your work in the critique forum:

    Overall your piece doesn't look too bad for your first big painting. It's definitely a lot better than my first digital painting!

    THe tilted perspective and environment is actually quite good. But as the others suggested you should probably start on the basics: look up basic shading, figure drawing etc. Because there is no saving this painting. THink of it as a learning process.

    Last edited by Bertling; April 8th, 2012 at 09:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertling View Post
    Art skills is also something that cannot be learned in a day, or even several months. But it's actually the most easy thing to learn out of all of these that I mentioned. The reason being that it's somethin that you can learn on your own -- without professional guidance! This means the only obstacle here is, again, TIME, which is ever so precious.
    Speak for yourself. There isn't any hocus pocus to programming, just like there isn't any hocus pocus to doing art or game designing. Just like people can learn art "without professional guidance", people can learn programming, game design, and animation and what have you not "without professional guidance". What comes most easy to a person completely depends on that person itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaEvil1 View Post
    Speak for yourself. There isn't any hocus pocus to programming, just like there isn't any hocus pocus to doing art or game designing. Just like people can learn art "without professional guidance", people can learn programming, game design, and animation and what have you not "without professional guidance". What comes most easy to a person completely depends on that person itself.
    Yeah I agree 100%, you can learn most things if you're willing, and those things you can't, well maybe just genetics like, not being an Olympic athlete because you are unlucky and don't have the best genetics. I may of sidetracked there, but yeah. I find it offensive that someone would think art is easy but programming is not. Each to their own, we all have different strengths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moshe one View Post
    either i'll succeed or i'll die trying
    You do realize that your project is going to the opposite of "I'll do what ever I have to succeed" and "you have to work with what you got"? Sometimes those two things mean that you'll have to lay off your glorious and epic 3D game powerdream and start with more humble stuff. Right now most of the stuff coming from you is more of the "I do what I want because I'm too good for other types of games or practicing" variety.

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  37. #29
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    I don't mean to say art is easy and programming hard.

    I mean that programming can be made a lot easier if there was someone to mentor you. Also programming is almost always a team effort. SO you have to learn to work with people.

    Art on the other hand, mostly come from within. No amount of mentoring will help if the student doesn't see his mistakes.

    Graduates from computer science will usually do well in an entry level programming job. Whereas graduates from an art institute.. well I've heard a lot of stories where people say they haven't actually learned much in art school..

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  38. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertling View Post
    I don't mean to say art is easy and programming hard.

    I mean that programming can be made a lot easier if there was someone to mentor you. Also programming is almost always a team effort. SO you have to learn to work with people.

    Art on the other hand, mostly come from within. No amount of mentoring will help if the student doesn't see his mistakes.

    Graduates from computer science will usually do well in an entry level programming job. Whereas graduates from an art institute.. well I've heard a lot of stories where people say they haven't actually learned much in art school..
    I'm not entirely sure that art comes "within"; I know that the only reason I draw is because I always enjoyed it, and I never stopped when people usually stop when they hit 12.

    However saying that; I am in a design course, I am placed with art students and I am the only one that can draw in our entire course; which... is curious. I have figured out that most of them enjoy their classes, most of them want to learn outside of class time when it boils down to it. I'm glad 2 other people try hard in what they enjoy out of class time however and fortunately hang out with them. Still, I don't think thats particularly the schools fault, nor the teachers. But the individuals. If you aren't willing, you will never learn.

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