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  1. #91
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    My experiences where I been into conflicts about artistic integrity has usually been in the theater or game design rather the art.

    But In my view artistic integrity is about the creative agenda in many cases. You goal and what you want to archive, rather then methods to archive something, or style.

    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

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  4. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    That's a solid question, Jeff.

    First we have to unpack the word "deep"... which is kind of a loaded word that's a bit too vague.

    Let's say, instead of "deep" that we are interested in work that has something about it that transcends the mere rendering of surfaces and substances and scenarios. And let's say that, in the act of creating art that is more evocative, the art also becomes more personal, necessarily. Because each of us has concerns that resonate more with us than others, and each of us has distinct temperaments, experiences, thinking patterns, imaginations, etc.

    So a Syd Mead can be evocative in a way that is totally different than an NC Wyeth or a Nicolai Fechin. Because all three artists have different concerns which transcend the mere rendering of what they depict. And in the act of creating their works each gives us a peek into their unique worldview unavailable elsewhere.
    I think that's a good breakdown or analysis. And to be honest...as much as I like Syd's work (and he's of course merely an example in this case), and believe he works with a high degree of integrity, I'll admit that his work probably does not reach a "deeper", transcendant nature. So I guess that was my point...that to me integrity is a component separate from result.

    That said, I don't think you can somehow reach that deeper, transcendant statement without integrity...you can't really stumble across it by accident. Chicanery, gimmick and disingenuous work will be seen as such (one hopes).

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  5. #93
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    Yeah, as I said somewhere else; there is no such thing as a shortcut, because a shortcut takes you someplace else.
    It's only integrity that will send the bucket to the bottom of your well without getting caught up on the sides of shallower earth.
    Where the problem lies;
    Once that heart water is brought back to the surface, making it drinkable for everyone else...

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  7. #94
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    Yeah, shortcuts. Why shorten the journey. It's where everything happens.

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  9. #95
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    interesting point about syd mead, he seems quite happy not to tackle the deep stuff and just have fun designing giant technically excellent images of buildings and cool spaceships. i respect that choice.

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  10. #96
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    interesting point about syd mead, he seems quite happy not to tackle the deep stuff and just have fun designing giant technically excellent images of buildings and cool spaceships. i respect that choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    For example, if I said "you're obviously more refractive than reflective" in response to your "I'm a chrome mirror" retort above, you might say, "ah well, overheated air often causes a mirage to appear." Then I might say, "The illusion of authentic reflection is exactly your problem." And then you could say, "But the internet is a perfectly dispersive medium." And much merriment could be had by all.
    ha ha?
    once again you mistake verbose and nasty for actually funny. i preferred your sweary wild-eyed tirades in climategate, they made me lol out loud they did they did.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; March 31st, 2012 at 12:13 PM.
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  11. #97
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    I can't help but feel that Mead is producing something extraordinary in works like this one, below. He is not only illustrating a world, but evoking it as well as a kind of emotional state.

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    At least Icarus tried!


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  12. #98
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    The Running of The Six DGRXX
    That is an amazing image isnt it.
    That one, Silver Coach, the Bladerunner skyline, the interior of the ring shaped orbital, the jungle crawler and a few others, changed everything for me!

    Come on Kev, lets be pals, I know my mixture of self-surety, political piety, and, yet, a lack of technical information and philosophical depth/insight annoy you, but rather than constantly and clumsily trying to belittle me, show me the error of my ways.
    Youre an interesting guy, I like reading your posts, any chance you can ease off the nastiness?

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  13. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    once again you mistake verbose and nasty for actually funny.
    Velocity, witty isn't the same as funny. I shouldn't need to explain that. I would probably need to explain the wit in that post as well, but I can't educate you from the ground up.

    And why do you keep trying to point people back to that other thread? Its completely irrelevant here. Even going so far as to set up a link? Wtf is wrong with you? What are you looking to gain by doing that?

    At least Icarus tried!


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  14. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    any chance you can ease off the nastiness?
    The problem is that you don't understand that you start these things, not me. So whining to me to be nice to you is just more irritation thrown on the pile. You should be whining to yourself to stop being so smug about positions you parrot about which you have only a cursory knowledge. Or you should reprimand yourself for reacting negatively to your misreadings or misunderstandings of posts. Epistemology will cure you of that, if you only had the interest.

    And the way you try to score points against me is so cheap and boring. And you keep trying and trying and its such a drag to deal with.

    Ha ha? I'm like rubber you're like glue! Look how mean he was in the other thread! He's not correct-thinking on politics, see!
    You pull that cheap stuff and then you want to lecture me on wit? Are you kidding me? Back off, stop gnawing on my ankle, and we'll get back to normal.

    Last edited by kev ferrara; March 31st, 2012 at 12:40 PM.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  15. #101
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    Mead has loads of artistic integrity. He usees his art to shape reality. He is a futurist, like Bob McCall, and redefined the world we live in. As an artist you can't have more integrity than to ignore the world as you see it and shape it as you want it. Few have the ability to affect more than their art though; Meads creations are soo powerful he coerced reality to adopt his vision.

    Very few artists attain this and hold on to it. Its a rare accomplishment to have a vision and to have others accept it without changing the artist's work into the vision of the people hiring them or buying their work.

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  17. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    The problem is that you don't understand that you start these things, not me. So whining to me to be nice to you is just more irritation thrown on the pile. You should be whining to yourself to stop being so smug about positions you parrot about which you have only a cursory knowledge.
    haha the bile just flows out of you. im trying to say i like you youre funny and interesting! dont get so cross with me! chillax!

    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    Velocity, witty isn't the same as funny.
    I dunno, witty is usually pretty funny. Better a witty fool, than a foolish wit, hmm what what old boy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    Epistemology will cure you of that, if you only had the interest.
    But I do! Tell me what I dont know how!

    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    The problem is that you don't understand that you start these things, not me. So whining to me to be nice to you is just more irritation thrown on the pile. You should be whining to yourself to stop being so smug about positions you parrot about which you have only a cursory knowledge. Or you should reprimand yourself for reacting negatively to your misreadings or misunderstandings of posts. Epistemology will cure you of that, if you only had the interest.

    And the way you try to score points against me is so cheap and boring. And you keep trying and trying and its such a drag to deal with.
    youre soooo angry, cooommmeee oonnn kev dont get all narky, i didnt misunderstand anything really, someone said something i disagreed with, then they said they didnt really believe it, it was just a talking point, i was like ah fair enough, i overreacted... you chiming in and doing my nut loads is a whole 'nother thing, obviously a direct hangover of that climategate thread where you also tried to do my nut for ages, called me all sorts, generally got a bit carried away, i keep repeating this but im sorry i bugged you, clam the chowder down, lets talk like people ok old timer!
    bill is obviously a super cool guy, and I feel bad for calling him out, he obviously didnt mean to cause a row and I was silly to be all "dont you dare say concept artists dont have integrity!" all angry and offended.
    bill, again, sir i apologise for my attitude earlier, I look up to you and enjoy your work.

    kev, lets put this behind us and have a cuddle party
    Artistic Integrity

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; April 1st, 2012 at 01:01 AM.
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  18. #103
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    Your Troll-Fu is weak.

    At least Icarus tried!


    My Process: Dead Rider Graphic Novel (Dark Horse Comics) plus oil paintings, pencils and other goodies:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=101106

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  19. #104
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    Someone pay me a million quid and I'll check out my Art Integrity.

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  21. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Mead has loads of artistic integrity. He usees his art to shape reality. He is a futurist, like Bob McCall, and redefined the world we live in. As an artist you can't have more integrity than to ignore the world as you see it and shape it as you want it. Few have the ability to affect more than their art though; Meads creations are soo powerful he coerced reality to adopt his vision.

    Very few artists attain this and hold on to it. Its a rare accomplishment to have a vision and to have others accept it without changing the artist's work into the vision of the people hiring them or buying their work.
    Norman Rockwell comes to mind.

    "Everything must serve the idea. The means used to convey the idea should be the simplest and clear. Just what is required. No extra images. To me this is a universal principle of art. Saying as much as possible with a minimum of means."
    -John Huston, Director
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