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Thread: Artistic Integrity

  1. #27
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    "I laid out my premise clearly; its about control, artistic input, and the type of work you accept"

    "I think a lack of artistic integrity is working in another living artist’s style for money or as a cheaper replacement."


    Whereas lots of other people think that's absolutely absurd and that you often have to work within the existing house style.


    "And maybe we have found that illusive difference between an artist and an illustrator/designer/concept artist. As artist must have integrity or she/he is not an artist? "


    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa
    please put that in your Concept Art. Org signature
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  4. #28
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    I turned down an offer of work the other day on principle. First off I was too busy anyway, but it was from an Evangelical Christian organisation in the States. Perfectly polite legitimate and apparently easy job to do, but I have actually no desire to work for someone or some group I don't empathise or agree with. Quite why they picked me is bizarre: my work doesn't really scream out religious sympathies. Some jobs I'm ambivalent about, and weigh those up on the spur of the moment. Having said that, the group of animators I once worked with did a version of the Jesus story... my position at the time was less open to arbitration though...

    I suppose negotiating ones integrity kind of diminishes by definition, but like everything, there are greater and lesser evils therein.

    On another note, I tried to read 'The Fountainhead', and found it ever so dreary, I had to give up. The only Ayn Rand book I made it through was 'Anthem', probably because it's short and there isn't enough time to be 'drearied out'. The problem with Rand's style of writing is that it feels like the plot is secondary to any ideas, which of course is her philosophy, so characters feel shoehorned in, and mere vehicles. As a result they feel shallow and unsympathetic.
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  6. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    "I laid out my premise clearly; its about control, artistic input, and the type of work you accept"

    "I think a lack of artistic integrity is working in another living artist’s style for money or as a cheaper replacement."


    Whereas lots of other people think that's absolutely absurd and that you often have to work within the existing house style.
    What kind of work are you talking about? When I look at small ad campains, books and RPG cards, magazines and comics I don't see a house style anywhere. The only style is the quality of the work being done not the sameness of it.
    Going back all the way to watercolor architectural illustrations I did in the 70's, I've never worked for a company that had a 'House Style" that I had to mimic. On the contrary, agents worked with multiple artists who would get the job based on their style that a client picked out of the agents book.
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  7. #30
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    "When I look at small ad campains, books and RPG cards, magazines and comics I don't see a house style anywhere."

    Youre not looking hard enough, all magazines have extremely strict graphic design house styles that must be adhered to, were likely originated by a very expensive pro and are now used by the internal art team making their layouts.

    DP i get your point, you dont like the idea of people working to emulate the style of other, more eminent artists and designers, but like you say, times are tough, and I wonder if youre ethical lines would be redrawn if you were hungry and were worried your landlord might kick you out.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; March 27th, 2012 at 12:52 PM.
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  8. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aly Fell View Post

    On another note, I tried to read 'The Fountainhead', and found it ever so dreary, I had to give up. The only Ayn Rand book I made it through was 'Anthem', probably because it's short and there isn't enough time to be 'drearied out'. The problem with Rand's style of writing is that it feels like the plot is secondary to any ideas, which of course is her philosophy, so characters feel shoehorned in, and mere vehicles. As a result they feel shallow and unsympathetic.
    I should know Ayn Rand rubs people the wrong way. I read it when I was a young man out of my teens. It was the only book I could think of when I started the thread that had dealt with the issue, albeit in a heavy handed way.
    Now, if I want Rand philosophy I just listen to my Rush albulms.-)
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  10. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Bll, I don't think so and I would never draw such a distinction. Are you saying you don't believe in such an idea as artistic integrity?

    I started as an illustrator and I hope to do more in the future. What I find interesting is the guys I looked up to coming up and got to know on a personal level influenced my ideas on this. Frank Kelly Freas, Don Davis, Rick Sternbach, Iain McCaig, Gearge Barr. They were adamant not only how you paint (your style ) but also what you do difines you as an artist/illustrator.

    So if we drop the I'd do it for a million dollar idea; because lets face it most likely that is never the case; its always just your regular fee. You are all up for drawing furry porn or child porn or Skinhead posters as long as you get your rate because you are professional illustrators?
    Actually I am saying quite the opposite. Maybe a piece can only be elevated to that vaunted art status through integrity.
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  12. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpaint View Post
    Now, if I want Rand philosophy I just listen to my Rush albulms.-)
    At the risk of diverting this thread, I saw them fairly recently in Manchester (Goth cred straight out the window!), and they did '2112', albeit a shortened version. It was an excellent concert and pretty 'greatest hits'. It was also interesting to see both Rush and Peter Gabriel demand Rush Limbaugh stop using their music at rallies and on commercials. Good for them!
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  14. #34
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    One of my favourite Trailerpark Boys episodes is the one where they kidnap Alex Lifeson and at the end Bubbles accompanies him on Closer to the Heart

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature..._aG1Bg#t=1252s
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  16. #35
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    Art is a religion. One of its tenets is Artistic Integrity.

    Making a living is a non-ideological necessity.

    Many artists, out of necessity, fall away from the religion.
    At least Icarus tried!


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  18. #36
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    Well, it's pretty unlikely you'll ever see me illustrate Captain Bigdick's Adventures in Rapeland or My First Nazi Primer. But I have no problem imitating styles. If I CAN do it then it's just as mine as anybody else's. I'm just not the one that pioneered it. I don't think that being known as Discount McCaig is likely to lead to fame and fortune, but that's different from thinking it's not okay.
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  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kev ferrara View Post
    Art is a religion. One of its tenets is Artistic Integrity.

    Making a living is a non-ideological necessity.

    Many artists, out of necessity, fall away from the religion.
    Is it possible to be an atheist? There are many strings to the artistic bow. Ultimately you have to be true to yourself, but there can be few artists who have not fulfilled a requirement for a client that sat uncomfortably with them, for all sorts of reasons. It is the privilege of the well-established who can dictate their vision as specific and uncompromising. The example I cited earlier where I politely declined an offer of work was a principled decision on my behalf as well as it being poorly timed on theirs, but it was a decision I was able to make based on my current circumstances. As others have said, and you also point out Kev, necessity means a drift, but it's not something most artists do willingly, I would imagine. This is a conversation I've had recently with my wife who is just about to have her first novel published (touch-wood). She was asked by the agent to make some alterations to the manuscript. She agreed, but was reluctant to go too far. She made some changes, but held back on some she thought were implicit to her vision. The agent let them pass. She was prepared to accept a third party judgement and compromise her vision to make the book publishable, but only so far, otherwise someone else is writing it and the fundamentals get lost. Sometimes compromise is as much part of 'artistic integrity' as refusing to budge.
    Last edited by Aly Fell; March 27th, 2012 at 12:52 PM. Reason: slepnilg
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  21. #38
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    Integrity is about lines. We all create lines which won't be crossed. The more of life one experiences the more information is had to create those lines. But all our lives are spent making lines and then re-adjusting them.

    I had an opportunity early on in my life to be a partner in an advertising firm. After some great soul searching I didn't do it (my would be partner is rich and retired now) because I made a line in the sand.

    No one can determine what another's lines will be but those with some experience can give advice about lines which we can take or leave. I happen to believe that artistic integrity can never be achieved if the dollar is the only goal.

    Copying another's hard earned style to make a buck might make you a buck in the short term, which may be needed to feed you or your family, but will not sustain you as an artist in the long run. Experience.

    I guess the artists and people I admire most are those who, even if it was the more difficult path, developed a unique voice through hard work and not crossing the lines they drew in the sand.
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  23. #39
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    So, how do you know when you're doing art? I was hired as an illustrator, but for having an art school background, I was asked to do everything from choosing the carpets for the administration building (yes, really) to multimedia programming (I wrote a buttload of code in my day) to 3D modeling. I built websites. I painted signage. Shoot, I taped overhead transparencies into frames and dyed word slides with Luma dyes. I did paste up and publication design. I also made illustrations by the hundreds, from cartoons to technical illustrations to oil paintings.

    Somebody's got to do that work, and some of it takes genuine artistic chops. I'm just not seeing where integrity comes into it. I liked the company I worked for and approved of its mission; I wouldn't have stayed with it otherwise. I did the best job I could.

    Oh, and for years, I'd come home at night and paint what I pleased and never show it to a soul. Does that art have extra special integrity? The fact that I pleased myself and I didn't think about the marketplace or the audience at all?

    p.s. Please tell me there's money in furry porn. I'm counting on it for my retirement fund.
    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).
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