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Thread: 2 year grad portolio
April 3rd, 2012 #27Registered User
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1. If you don't show a little bit of base into your voice on internet forums people will jeer at you. Folks on the web are animals, and if you behave politely your nothing more than idol pray for them.
(I've posted in 3 forums and I get jeered at if I am polite)
2. I check the silhouette with most of these, alright I admit some of the ones that aren't traditionally shaped or have huge appendages kinda have blurred silhouettes. but for the most part you can tell who they are, Seriously I do check before I make these dudes.
3. Ok I may have over reacted, but number one again.
I am not going to be the laughing stock of this site because I was too nice.
4. People who like these things often are the ones to jeer.
I noticed you were one who liked this, thus you might be one of the other dudes from the site.
Again, I am a professional fellow who works at places and no one on the web thinks so because I don't do gore or medival based things. So I will say something when someone is on the verge of saying rude things before they start.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberApril 3rd, 2012 #28
If you think your product is fine as it is then good, have a good luck with that.
Thank you, i'm pretty sure we never steal work each other
April 3rd, 2012 #29
again, i never said you should do gore or medieval based things at all. nobody here is saying that theres anything wrong with having a cartoony style.
i dont know where you are getting that.
look man, the only reason i commented on this thread was because i think your stuff is on the right track but could be better.
if i didn't like your work i wouldn't have commented on it at all.
April 3rd, 2012 #30
And heck I'm not a professional but I know that kind of attitude will have a negative impact on your career, sure you can say your a working professional but some companies REALLY DO give a shit about the things the other people said above.
EDIT:And yeah, people are trying to help here so I don't know what you want us to say to you. :/
April 3rd, 2012 #31
You seem to have a decent understanding of color theory, but your work is far from perfect.
You also seem to be getting too defensive right now to accept much criticism, but the people that are saying you need to work on your ability to create a strong silhouette are right. Silhouette doesn't just matter for Saturday morning cartoon characters. It is an integral part of the design of everything you see around you - from cars, to shoes, to lamps, to the trademarked iconic shape of the glass coca-cola bottle.
I suppose the thing that bugs me the most about both your 2d and 3d work is that they seem made up of a bunch of rounded shapes that don't have enough detail to be identified as anything. Your designs also seem to lack any sort of clear function. While I don't expect you to run of and get a PHD in mechanical design, you should either focus on making things look like they aren't just glued on randomly, or make things interesting enough to look at that no one will care.
April 3rd, 2012 #32Registered User
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Ok, maybe I got a tad defensive because I thought there were people from the other sites lurking and ready to say rude things about my speech.
I never said I was the ultimate fellow, I am just looking for another job because the one I had went dry.
I apologize, for that.
What would be interesting then?
To tell you the truth, I am alot nicer in person.
I just feel as though sometimes i cannot be the same fellow online.
also i tried to fix the thing like you said
Last edited by themindofmorris; April 3rd, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
April 4th, 2012 #33
"rule of cool". Other examples include things like Batman's horribly impractical batarang and King Kong being a 50 foot gorilla even though at that size his bones shouldn't be able to support his weight.
Last edited by SmallPoly; April 4th, 2012 at 03:33 AM.
April 4th, 2012 #34
For action figures, you need to understand what goes into the 'buck' design, how the arms and legs attach, how they move, what can be sculpted on the figures vs. what must be stand-alone prop pieces, etc. You need to know how everything is connected within the frame of the action figure, or whatever else you're designing. The fact that you have "kinda stopped doing those" at ANY point, shows that you don't know what you're doing.
Anyone who is looking to hire someone to do designs for their toy company will always look for someone who understands the process. More specifically, someone who understands all the processes for how to design toys, whether they be for promotional "premiums" companies, or the more mainstream toy store-type companies, such as Mattel, Hasbro, Toy Biz, or certainly something as sophisticated as McFarlane toys.
When you unilaterally decide that you're going to do these (what I'll very loosely call) 'pretty pictures', it shows that is only what YOU want to do. Not what you must do in order to make a living designing toys. If this is a hobby for you, then no problem. 'Pretty picture' it up! But don't fool yourself into EVER thinking this has anything to do with professional work.
Also, if you're selling only your concepts to someone, you still must show - in your concepts & designs - that you know what the process is in the manufacturing of toys. Most times in the professional world, you don't have the choice or luxury to do what you want. You're the paid pencil. You have to do what the client wants. More than that, you must learn to anticipate what the client wants, because many times the client doesn't know what the hell he wants until he sees it, until after you've gone through dozens of designs over weeks and weeks of time. That's a disaster when you're only being paid for the job, and not by the hour.
When you decide that you're going to do only what you want, then that's just plain ignorant arrogance. Now before you get pissed and fake-outrage 'offended' by anything I say, you must also pay close heed to what everyone is telling you on this thread. And stop being (again with the fake outrage and offense) a whiney reactionary to anyone's blunt criticisms. I promise you, you're going to hear a lot of that in life, especially from clients. Thicken up that skin of yours, stop thinking that working professionally is only about what you want to do, and start learning how the business works.
Your work so far shows that you don't know very much. Congratulations for graduating from whatever art school you were at, but I fear that you've not been taught very well if you have no understanding of which I speak. You should have been taught and prepared better.
It doesn't matter that you know how to 3D model these characters you design. If you don't show the client HOW you understand the process of how toys and manufactured, or how the toys would be made from your designs, then you're no good to the client.
Hitsu San, Shorinji_Knight & SatelliteNoodles gives you good advice, as does SmallPoly. My favorite advice to you is from The Dirt Syndicate. You really need to pay attention to Syndicate's advice about silhouettes. EVERY marketable toy/figure/character's silhouette can be easily recognized. You're wanting to operate in a world where you must be marketable. Your ignorance and arrogance in thinking that you can just walk in and do what you wish, to make up the rules on your own, without learning the fundamentals of the business you claim you wish to participate in; that's incredibly shortsighted and lazy.
Being ignorant is fine. That's the beginning of learning. But when you refuse to learn... well, that's just plain stupid.
Prepare yourself: as a freelancer (or if you're lucky enough to get a staff job), EVERY job is going to be different. You'll be called upon to do cute & fluffy things, tween action-adventure hero stuff, maybe something futuristic, maybe something of this or that, or something else. Maybe all in the same assignment! If you cannot provide the kind of designs that the client needs from you... if you do not have the flexibility, or the broad range of ability to do all kinds of styles, then you're going to be out on your ass very quickly.
And the sad part will be, you won't even know why. From your posts, I gather that you would complain that you never got to do what you wanted to do; that you always had to do styles that you hated, or that didn't interest you.
HERE'S A REALITY CHECK FOR YOUR CAREER, OR ANY CREATIVE CAREER:
I have been working as a freelance guy for well over 20 years. Someone said to me one day that he thought I must LOVE everything I do. I DO NOT. He was flabbergasted to hear this. He asked me "why"?!? I told him - as I tell you now - that my career (drawing comic books, storyboarding for advertising, storyboarding for 2D & 3D animation, action-adventure & preschool & adult drama, storyboarding for live-action film, storyboarding for episodic television shows, storyboarding for video game cinematics, character & prop design for animation & live-action film, designing premiums toys for fast food chains, designing other promotional toys, designing logos, environmental design for 2D & 3D animation, designing characters for iPhone apps, orthographic design work for industrial machines, vehicle design, political cartooning, creature design... and a bazillion OTHER things that will take too long to mention here, each job requiring DIFFERENT STYLES!) is being WORK FOR HIRE. Meaning, I go where I am told, I draw what I am told, many times the way I am told to draw it! I have only really LOVED a small number of things I have done, primarily because I wasn't doing them for myself.
What was I doing all this for? TO PAY RENT. TO PAY FOR MY LIFE. The guy I was talking to seemed disappointed, as if he thought that drawing pictures was going to be like going to Disneyland every day of your life. IT ISN'T.
But, I told him - as I tell you now - the most important thing: that on my worst day, my most boring day, when I'm working on a job that's either incredibly difficult, or horribly uninteresting, or that which is under the most horrific deadline... on my very worst day, I'M STILL DRAWING PICTURES FOR A LIVING!
And that's a VERY good thing! THAT is what makes it worthwhile!
So you must (gently or otherwise) understand HOW the business works. HOW toys are made. HOW to present your designs in a professional manner.
Right now, with the way you react to people, and the caliber of your work... I'd say you don't know anywhere NEAR enough to be a working professional.
If you don't wish to be a working pro, and this is a hobby... then fine. We'll all pat you on your head and send you to your corner where you can pretend you're designing things that will be made into toys. It's nice to have a hobby.
But if you wish to work professionally; to make your living off your talents; to be able to pay your rent, pay for your furniture/clothing/car/home/bills/fun with your talents, then you need to put an end to your rank ignorance.
Or use it like a suppository. Doesn't matter.
Acknowledge and recognize what we're all telling you here. It's the best advice from working professionals you're likely to get in a very long time. Certainly the best advice you've been given so far, seeing how those 2 years of art school didn't prepare you for the professional world like they should have.
One last thing:
You act as if you're still in high school. If that's the case, then that's good because you have more time to mature and to study more about how this business is. However, if you're in your mid to late twenties, then I'd say with your current level of knowledge and skill, you're in grave danger of not ever learning what you must to be able to become a professional designer. All the reports I've read (and all the people I've observed) shows that if you haven't developed a strong discipline and knowledge base (including how to be open to learning new things) by the time you're in your late twenties, then you're going to be pretty much stuck on that level for the rest of your life.
You don't want that to happen.
You have talent, and the skill to draw. And if you're able to open your mind, humble yourself into understanding that you do NOT know what you're doing in a professional sense, then you will be able to have a good shot at making your living with your talents. Hopefully you'll also understand that your work isn't just one thing! Your skills and talents could be applied to all kinds - EVERY kind of thing that a freelancer could do (see my above partial work list). YOU ARE LIMITING YOURSELF, AND YOU DON'T EVEN SEEM TO BE AWARE OF IT.
Now you have a choice: waste all your time being defensive, barking at us for giving you advice that you clearly don't want to do the hard work that will make you so much better... or you can accept what we're telling you, and then start moving yourself toward learning HOW THE BUSINESS WORKS!
It's up to you. This is probably the last chance you're going to have to find people who will take the time to give you any advice.
April 4th, 2012 #35
I'm very sleepy, especially after spending over 2 hours writing my previous post to you.
I see you graduated 2 years ago, not that you went to art school for 2 years. Got it.
I looked at your website. Much better work there, to be sure. But you still must show - to better present you as a knowledgeable person at a professional quality level - how you understand the process of manufacturing toys.
Take your 10 best character designs, and then do the turnarounds on them. Show in your designs how the toys work; how they move. Remember, you won't be traveling with your designs to Korea or wherever they will be sculpted & manufactured. Your work must speak for itself. THAT's how good a job you must do with everything you design.
After you get those character designs done that way, then do the same for props & vehicle designs. Do a total of 10 of those combined.
Then do 10 different environments.
Then, take your favorite live-action television series, something that everyone would recognize. For instance, let's say you pick The Sopranos. Then you make FIVE different style versions of character designs, as if you were going to each version differently:
1) As if they were designed for an Anime series (which one? Pokemon? Something that resembles the style from Ponyo? Akira?)
2) As if they were going to be made by McFarlane Toys (very realistic, with poseable parts)
3) As if they were going to be animated in the 1970's Hanna Barbera style
4) As if they were being designed in the style of Bruce Timm's Justice League animation work
5) As if they were being designed in the fashion of Spongebob Squarepants
Include several environments (no more than 3) for each category.
DO YOUR RESEARCH ON HOW PROFESSIONAL DESIGN WORK IS DONE.
(Remember, each character/prop/vehicle set must show the turnarounds - side view, straight-on, back & 3/4!)
What's the purpose of this? TO SHOW THAT YOU HAVE RANGE. To show that you can take a concept and run with it in many different directions! You MUST see how this will make you look like you can do ANYTHING, yes?
The more you expand your range, the more you are able to do SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS! Toy design IS NOT THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO WHEN YOU DEVELOP YOUR SKILLS. YOU DO NOT WANT TO LIMIT YOURSELF TO JUST TOY DESIGN.
Open your mind. Then getcher butt to learning... well, EVERYTHING!
April 4th, 2012 #36
The thing about critiques you have to remember is:
If 1 or 2 people say the samething it might just be their opinion, but if 3 or more people say the samething its probably a problem.
Critiques are not pleasent nor are they supposed to be. They are supposed to help you grow as an artist. If people here just wanted to upset you they wouldn't have invested sooo much time and effort in their critiques. Some of these have been exellent insights into the professional world. Don't take them personal nobody here knows anything about you -- except how you act HERE.
Also, Nobody here makes fun of polite, respectful, professional people looking for honest feedback. However this place turns into a den of sharks when people don't act in this manner. conceptart.org is not like most sites, there're Tons of pros here. This is where you HAVE to behave yourself or destroy your reputation in the industry.
Take the advise they've given you, say thank you and use it to make your art great.
April 5th, 2012 #37
You know, I think Morris has decided not to engage with us anymore.
That's too bad, since we're all sitting here trying to help him out.
April 5th, 2012 #38Registered User
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nope making things, (started this before I saw today's post)
a couple of buildings
(have an enviornment, but i am not near the scanner
wait wait, I think I didn't word things correctly. I do many primary sketches and different angles of the characters, I just don't do turnaround guides for myself to import into the 3d program when I am sculpting them any more.
I mean, I have worked on other things,I worked on a couple of commericials, modeled some characters for a casino game and did building layouts in 3d.
I make a prop once in awhile (not often though) . I am just not trying to make the same things here, I try to do somethings based of different shows.
(the examples that I posted here on the site were from a robot show I saw my brothers watching, and I decided to take a shot at it, something different than the usual monsters)
I usually check if the silhouette works in static poses, perhaps it doesn't work if they are in other poses I put them in.
idk this is perplexing. I am not sure if I should be the rude dude online or not, either
it seems as though if I am nice people don't respond or are rude, but if I get rude more people tend to say more things or notice.
I am not rude, I wanted to see if this one worked and it did.
April 5th, 2012 #39
As for the art in the post, it looks like these are straight from your imagination, and possibly a first pass. Do you use reference images when working? You may find them useful to help add in some details you might not have thought of on your own. One way I like to work is to do the first draft purely from imagination, do some studies of the reference material, then make the 2nd draft adding in additional detail as needed. Basically, work in multiple iterations.
It seems like you could benefit from doing more observational drawing (helps anatomy and believable detail) and from doing some studies of accomplished artists with similar styles.