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Thread: The Forever War

  1. #1
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    The Forever War

    is being made by Ridley Scott.

    Scott isnt the director he was when he made Alien (1979) or Bladerunner (1982) but if anyone can turn a classic actioner with heart into a movie that at least respects some of the themes of the book i think its him, which is exciting. What you think? At least hes not Micheal Bay or Roland Emmerich right?
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    Haldeman is a great writer and if they can get any of the book into the screenplay it could be awesome. My second favorite Haldeman story after All My Sins Remembered

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    I found the lack of Haldemans angry anti-war message in James Camerons Avatar a real problem; for most of the movie I was hoping it was a clever subtext, that America in the future had forgotten Vietnam and its other disasterous foreign adventures, and this would all be driven home by the carnage by the end.
    Actually it turned out Cameron seemed to have forgotten all history since white people arrived in the Americas and the white guy took over the indigen tribe, bested their champions and fought off the technically superior invaders in an afternoon. Fucking bollocks. Which is a shame as I think hes a genius.
    The spectre of Henry Kissinger, or any authority from back home, was absent apart form some half-arsed company logos.
    I hated their stupid tree as well.

    I love a movie full of cool tech, but big guns have to be undercut by a smart story and the basic message that war is fucking awful or it becomes bad porn.
    (Incidentally if you hate Avatar as much as I do buy the Rifftrax version, its like $4

    "Avatar is the story of just how pretty a jungle planet can look in 3D, and maybe there are some people fighting in it or whatever. It's also a great refresher on some of your favorite 90s action movie dialogue clichés. ")

    I dont think a Ridley Scott Forever War could ever be that bad, although itll obviously be a boiled down collection of key bits from the novel with a load of stuff he dreams up to glue it all together. Lets hope Prometheus isnt an Alien Ressurection and he gets a free reign I guess.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; March 22nd, 2012 at 01:07 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    I found the lack of Haldemans angry anti-war message in James Camerons Avatar a real problem; for most of the movie I was hoping it was a clever subtext, that America in the future had forgotten Vietnam and its other disasterous foreign adventures, and this would all be driven home by the carnage by the end.
    You've just thrown out an important point about the setting of Avatar: these guys aren't US Army or representatives of US government. They are a corporation. That makes the rest of your barbs rather miss the point.

    If anything, Avatar's hidden-in-plain-sight conflict is not the jarheads vs the blue guys; it's geeks vs drones.

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    I dunno about Haldeman. I wasn't enamored with the book; the premise was clever enough, and the parts about the time-dilated soldier falling out of touch with the society he was supposedly defending were all right; but every time there was anything hinged on technology (which is a lot in this book), the science/engineering geek in me was screaming "bullshit". It seems that Haldeman had been using technology as a convenience to put his characters in arbitrary contrived danger, most of the time; there seems to be little other logic to it. Half the time he expounded on something like the super-fragile radiators on space armor which kills you the moment you bump the fins on something, I wanted to kick those supposedly-smartest-percentile-of-human-population in the butt. Surely real engineers could come up with something better or at least stronger or at least something that did not kill you if you slip on a pool of frozen nitrogen? Joe Haldeman does not have to be in that smartest percentile himself to write about it, but would it have killed him to consult real engineers or scientists if he wanted a believable set of scientific/engineering dangers and compromises?

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    Scott is one of my favourite directors, but I agree that his style has changed a lot since Alien and Blade Runner. Despite the odd below-par film here and there, his average is actually pretty good in my opinion. I don't know much about The Forever War, but I'll always make time for a good science fiction film.

    Unless it has the hands of Michael Bay involved, but then I guess the keyword there was 'good', and Michael Bay, as far as I'm concerned, hasn't made a good film since The Rock.

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    "aren't US Army or representatives of US government. They are a corporation. That makes the rest of your barbs rather miss the point."

    not really, the US Army (or mercs- sorry security contractors) being used as the police force of corporate interests might have been a clever comment if the rest of the story wasnt so imbecilic, but everyone had clearly forgotten this isnt jungle war

    The Forever War

    this is

    The Forever War

    Sure the prose is a bit workmanlike, but the story of soldiers isolated from their fellow humans not just through dilated time but also beacause of the horrors theyve seen remains gripping.
    In the wake of the war in Iraq, the justification for which was largely lies about WMD and resource lust, and which has left thousands of lives shattered forever, Haldemans story is just as relevant as it was.
    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; March 20th, 2012 at 11:59 AM.
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    This is great news! I absolutely LOVED the comic book collaboration Haldeman / Marvano. Come to think of it, it's probably my favorite one.
    Here's a sample (in french sorry) : http://www.dupuis.com/catalogue/UK/a...integrale.html
    I just checked the prices for the english version and they're outrageous!

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    Strange I never took Avatar to be a lets all hate america movie. Americans as a people are generally proud to be american.


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    Quote Originally Posted by arenhaus View Post
    I dunno about Haldeman. I wasn't enamored with the book; the premise was clever enough, and the parts about the time-dilated soldier falling out of touch with the society he was supposedly defending were all right; but every time there was anything hinged on technology (which is a lot in this book), the science/engineering geek in me was screaming "bullshit". It seems that Haldeman had been using technology as a convenience to put his characters in arbitrary contrived danger, most of the time; there seems to be little other logic to it. Half the time he expounded on something like the super-fragile radiators on space armor which kills you the moment you bump the fins on something, I wanted to kick those supposedly-smartest-percentile-of-human-population in the butt. Surely real engineers could come up with something better or at least stronger or at least something that did not kill you if you slip on a pool of frozen nitrogen? Joe Haldeman does not have to be in that smartest percentile himself to write about it, but would it have killed him to consult real engineers or scientists if he wanted a believable set of scientific/engineering dangers and compromises?
    You are missing the point of the book IMO, written about war where people give the soldiers the most inferior crap they can get away with. Just like in real life, Vietnam and Iraq and probably any other war we've fought. Read any military history. As a soldier Haldeman is spot on with the stupidity of it all.

    If you want to read about tech and the stupidity of the army, read Black Hawk Down. Forget about the movie, the book is taken from the soldiers transcripts.

    In Iraq, could we build transports that protect against IED's? Sure but the cost of it wasn't worth it till the families raised such a fuss they started to armor the armored vehicles.

    I was sending my brother supplies over there because they couldn't get them or had to pay carpetbagger prices from Bechtel in base. He didn't have body armor his first tour because they ran out and weren't going to make anymore, thats how wars are. They are unbelievably brutal and stupid which is why they should only be fought when no other option for self preservation exists. Anything less than that is not worth the blood and treasure of a country's citizens.

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    Regarding Avatar... When I first read a story synopsis before any trailers published, I thought it's going to be some sort of Robinson Cruzoe on alien planet kind of thing with National Geographic documentary feel and that sounded exciting to me. Seeing later as it is typical good fighting evil type of story for kids was disappointment though it got overshadowed a bit by fantastic visuals.

    As for the Forever War. I got a comic book based on that story drawn by Marvano and I love it . It's good that Ridley Scott is directing it as he has experience both with war/military movies (Black Hawk Down) and with space horror/thriller (Alien). Forever War got both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farvus View Post
    Regarding Avatar... as it is typical good fighting evil type of story for kids was disappointment though it got overshadowed a bit by fantastic visuals.
    The same applies to Lord of the Rings- just without the visuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Strange I never took Avatar to be a lets all hate america movie. Americans as a people are generally proud to be american.
    And ashamed of what the Military Industrial Complex is doing in their name. And yeah, US military is essentially the police force of certain corporations, namely Halliburton, RAND (operates MIC, to my knowledge), and all those groups hooked into the Illuminati. Companies like Coca-cola on the other hand would be more reliant on black operators, etc

    Hydraulic Fracturing creates profit for the Energy Task Force, resources for the MIC and helps in gradually getting rid of the American public. I believe the only reason why the NDAA and FEMA is going down now, instead of in 2027, is because of the Occupy protests. All they really did was say to the 1%: "we are not sheep, we are aware. So you better kill us now if it's going to happen at all"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Challie View Post
    And ashamed of what the Military Industrial Complex is doing in their name. And yeah, US military is essentially the police force of certain corporations, namely Halliburton, RAND (operates MIC, to my knowledge), and all those groups hooked into the Illuminati. Companies like Coca-cola on the other hand would be more reliant on black operators, etc

    Hydraulic Fracturing creates profit for the Energy Task Force, resources for the MIC and helps in gradually getting rid of the American public. I believe the only reason why the NDAA and FEMA is going down now, instead of in 2027, is because of the Occupy protests. All they really did was say to the 1%: "we are not sheep, we are aware. So you better kill us now if it's going to happen at all"
    Name one goverment without it's flaws. Sure I'm not always proud of everything my country does, but I am proud of my country as are most of my country men. I find it interesting that the people so vocally anti-america here don't appear to be americans. Most of the critisms here could apply to any major power. Are your own country's slates so clean?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorinji_Knight View Post
    Name one goverment without it's flaws. Sure I'm not always proud of everything my country does, but I am proud of my country as are most of my country men. I find it interesting that the people so vocally anti-america here don't appear to be americans. Most of the critisms here could apply to any major power. Are your own country's slates so clean?
    Sorry for the late reply. I was born in Hawaii, i'm a US citizen. Resident of NZ. And yeah, NZ's army is involved in positive projects (recently helped clean up an oil spill). All the while our Special Air Service has been deployed into the same countries as the US for decades, fighting along with the US, most likely torturing people for information, etc in the global war on terro-lies, propaganda and bullshit. 1NZSAS is deployed overseas while locally this country has gangs such as the Headhunters, Hell's Angels NZ, and Mongrel Mob vs Black Power among others. Some like Black Power have an attitude of "we don't go looking for trouble, but if someone starts something, we'll take it to the end". As far as i know, people aren't really in danger from the gangs in general, they have been used as assassins on people who have ripped many others off / brought it upon themselves. Most are into hard drugs such as Meth, but some have been on that for years only to see their children exposed to such an environment and end up working with community organizations to improve the situation. I could go into the problematic nature of the culture in this country if you like, but for now i'll try to save this becoming a larger wall of text

    New Zealand sucks up to Ameri-corrupt government that has no interest in its people other than to kill off the activists and reform the complacent ones into their new world order; microchipped and enslaved, with constant surveillance over every remaining citizen through live video feeds of even the most personal moments of their lives. Fuck this shit. NZ's current prime minister is very keen on selling the country to foreign oil corporations; most likely the energy task force which is headed up by Halliburton, and given that company is building FEMA camps, well if NZ get's sold off then we'll have a police state too, which would probably happen anyway if NZ wasn't sold.

    When our more liberal prime minister Helen Clarke was PM, the SAS was deployed in the same way it is now, the only difference being that John Key likes to tell the public about it. A minor, pleasant exception to an otherwise corrupt banker. Operation 8 happened while Helen Clarke was still PM, and she was against it but has little to hold up against the UK's Secret Intelligence Service.

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