Dragons composition, early WIP
Join Free Art WorkShopJoin Premium Art Workshop

Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Dragons composition, early WIP

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Dragons composition, early WIP

    I did some freestyle scribbling last night and this is based on that. Before I move on and start fleshing things out I'd love to get some input. I will be adding wispy clouds and probably some distant mountain peaks in the far background.

    Name:  dual dragons WIP1 800p.jpg
Views: 912
Size:  53.8 KB


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    2,710
    Thanks
    2,942
    Thanked 1,819 Times in 936 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm getting a kind of ying and yang vibe from the picture. Not only because of the black and white,
    but the dragons look too much like exact duplicates to me in form and body position.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Star Eater For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,307
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 347 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Really nice, I like this a lot. I think I spotted one of your previous dragon compositions but never got round to commenting on it. I loved that one too.

    This one works well as it is for me, without too much detail in the background. I also think putting in land in the shape of mountains would maybe ground the dragons too much and it might lose some of that magical aerial (sp?) feel you've got at the moment.

    One suggestion about the position of the dragons. Maybe tilting the black dragon more so you see its underside from above, the way birds of prey look when they passing prey or doing their mating dance, would really push the composition into something special. Though, thats just my personal opinion and you might think differently.

    Great start though, and I'll be eagerly watching this take shape. Good luck with it!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Candra H For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Luleå, nothern Sweden
    Posts
    164
    Thanks
    93
    Thanked 65 Times in 40 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I like th compostion but... Hmm. Somehow, from a physical stance point the black dragon pose don't make much sense. Or rather i think the king that is wrong is the position of the wing closes to us.

    The questing that comes to me is:

    "Why is he flopping his wing in that angle? It look awkward and/or painful- Where is he trying to move? Is he sort of turning? Maybe he trying to go into some butt-first dive? No doesn't seem right... Or is it broken? Or? I don't even...."


    Last edited by w176; March 15th, 2012 at 01:46 PM.
    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

    Sketchbook: w176 love of the color dirt
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to w176 For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks for the feedback so far! If I do put mountains in the background, they will be very distant and shrouded in mist, so hopefully they won't ground the dragons too much. If they do, I'll certainly take them out.

    The black dragon looks contorted because it is doing a sort of mid-air somersault or cartwheel. I've watched ravens, hawks and eagles do this sort of thing before. I've seen ravens do this when being attacked by other birds; they roll over onto their backs and reach their claws out as they stall out. Eagles and hawks do it for courtship, eventually locking their talons and cartwheeling in a spinning dive. I made it intentionally ambiguous in this image whether they are fighting or courting, as I want the viewer to be drawn in to their own conclusions. Here are a couple of examples I found of this sort of pose;
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_x29Pef-T4F...s+101_2373.jpg
    http://www.besgroup.org/2007/03/12/a...ied-sea-eagle/


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Luleå, nothern Sweden
    Posts
    164
    Thanks
    93
    Thanked 65 Times in 40 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Yet, even if he doing a rollback, shouldn't the wing closet to us either be higher, or at an different angle? I see the body of the dragon as upright, and that means that the wing still sort of is at a awkward angle? During the rollback the angles seem to be at a more symmetrical angle?

    I have no intention of becoming a professional artist, I just aspire to become a really good amateur.

    Sketchbook: w176 love of the color dirt
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to w176 For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Oh, I see what you mean. I pictured him more on his back, but I haven't given much definition to the dragons' bodies yet so I can see how it would look like it is upright. I'll definitely need to clarify that when I render it out more fully! In fact, I will probably be rendering them with 4 legs each instead of just the 2 place holders I gave them.


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I am not yet happy with the pose on the black dragon. His arms look like they are flailing too wildly; I want to bring them tighter to the body. I also need to fix the neck. Anyway, this is what I have so far today:

    Name:  black and white wip2 900p.jpg
Views: 748
Size:  70.8 KB


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,307
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 347 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Looking good!

    I'll wait to see what you do with your fixes before commenting further, because you changed the white dragon's pose which I was going to mention, so you're already ahead of me.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Candra H For This Useful Post:


  15. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thanks, Candra! I think I've got the pose more or less fixed now. I can't seem to find time to work on this image except for a few short opportunities. Hopefully I'll find more time this weekend to really sink my teeth into it. Here is the progress so far!

    Name:  black and white dragons wip3 900p.jpg
Views: 657
Size:  73.4 KB


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,101
    Thanks
    685
    Thanked 1,013 Times in 690 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I quite like it, though the poses don't feel quite right and the overall image is rather monotonic and cold. I'd try and find a way to get some warmer tones in there.

    What's contributing to the odd feel of the poses is that the wing arms are very, very short compared to the wing fingers, resulting in the wings looking rather stiff. That, and they don't seem to be positioned quite right compared to the bodies and the way they're flying. You could get away with the latter though I guess, it's more a nitpick from me personally.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Lhune For This Useful Post:


  18. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    For some reason I always default to making the wing arms much shorter than the fingers. I need to consciously work on that.


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,307
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 347 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I'm not sure I like the latest version. The black dragon's pose looks forced and stiff now, and I think you might have been on a better track before. Maybe just tucking the limbs in against the body and using foreshortening to hide some of the awkward curves in the neck, would help with the issues you mentioned about that.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Candra H For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I had a couple of hours this afternoon so I did some more work on the poses. I'm still not entirely happy with the white dragon's pose.

    Name:  black and white dragons wip4 900p.jpg
Views: 1303
Size:  76.3 KB

    Last edited by Eclectix; March 18th, 2012 at 05:07 PM.

    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    2,101
    Thanks
    685
    Thanked 1,013 Times in 690 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    I hope you don't mind me doing this!



    I find it hard to explain myself with words so I hope the paintover is clear enough; I think there are still some problems with the structures of your wings, and the lines of action of the dragons (or the direction lines, I'm not sure what to call them) are rather angular and "broken", resulting in them looking stiff. I think if you tried to make them rounder and more "flowing", their poses will look more natural.

    Here's a comparison of the lines as I see them;



    I hope that makes sense .

    Last edited by Lhune; March 18th, 2012 at 05:36 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lhune For This Useful Post:


  24. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,307
    Thanks
    227
    Thanked 347 Times in 268 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    A great critique from Lhune, and i just wanted to add that I kind of like way she tucked the wing arms into the membranes. It looks really good, though I understand logically that it might restrict how the dragons fly. Entirely up to you if you decide to incorporate it in your design but I thought I'd add some support for it.

    You're doing great work with this, Eclectix. Keep going with it and good luck!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Candra H For This Useful Post:


  26. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado, USA
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    598
    Thanked 300 Times in 142 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thank you very much for your very nice paint over, Lhune. I always respect your dragon anatomy advice.

    I'm attaching my idea of what I perceive as far as composition lines. The green lines are secondary lines, mostly the mountains, which just arrest the eye from straying, to keep the eye flowing back into the point of interest. To my eye, the final resting position is ultimately the black dragon's head. Most of the other lines either flow to the white dragon's gaze- leading back to the black dragon again- or flow around the wings and back to the same.

    Name:  black and white dragons WIP5composition lines.jpg
Views: 1523
Size:  89.9 KB

    Maybe I need to step away from this and work on something else for a few days. Sometimes that helps to get some fresh eyes.


    My Illustrated Lovecraft Bestiary project
    Deviantart account
    My ConceptArt Sketchbook
    For freelance and commission work: h.manzee (a) gmail dot com
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Eclectix For This Useful Post:


Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •