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Thread: Parents had the "so what do you want to do" talk with me...

  1. #91
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    No, he wasn't speaking for himself. If he was, he would have used words like I.

    "When you are young you wont know what you really want until you do it. I wanted art. Found engineering."
    He didn't speak for himself until the end of the statement which is nothing but a supporting detail for his idea.

    And as I said, I was not referring to the experience he shared, I was referring to the statement.

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    That is called an opinion. When someone says , "speak for yourself" it's confrontational. Someone need not start every sentence with my opinion is for it to be an opinion.

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    Maybe it's confrontational to you, but not to me. It was my opinion that it was a blanket statement that could be misinformation for some.

    I hear so many people that sit on a fence because they're afraid and don't end up doing what they want. And it's my opinion that this should not be the case and I would hate to see a potentially great artist not be one because somebody told them not to put all their eggs in one basket.

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    Ok well can you give us examples of how you braved the uncertainty and fought to be the great highly compensated artist you are today?

    You haven't told us anything about your experience at all. As far as I know, you are working at the same SUBWAY as the user you are quoting, minus the engineering degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UmpaArt View Post
    Maybe it's confrontational to you, but not to me. It was my opinion that it was a blanket statement that could be misinformation for some.

    I hear so many people that sit on a fence because they're afraid and don't end up doing what they want. And it's my opinion that this should not be the case and I would hate to see a potentially great artist not be one because somebody told them not to put all their eggs in one basket.
    Why don't you take a poll on how many would consider that confrontational or at least a little irritating. Look, you can take that romantic art or die stand all you want but the reality is that at least 90% (probably low) of those people will never make a living doing art and an even higher percentage will not be doing what they want in art if they happen to get in. There is no shame in being cautious in what one does especially if they have other goals in life other than cutting off their ear.

    It's the same thing for all those would be actors. Go for it don't sit on the fence. Move to LA or NY and drop everything to be an actor.

    If my kids wanted to go into art I would grill them long and hard about the it. It is not a romantic, I get to express myself and make bitchin' pictures lifestyle. It is harder and more competitive than even the most cynical people believe. The rewards if you get your spot, yeah they are pretty cool but you cannot chide someone for a lifestyle choice.

    I think people are allowed a voice and to even caution someone from their own experience without speak for yourself being thrown in their face especially since you still haven't given us that alternative experience of yours.

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    Why don't you take a poll on how many would consider that confrontational or at least a little irritating. Look, you can take that romantic art or die stand all you want but the reality is that at least 90% (probably low) of those people will never make a living doing art and an even higher percentage will not be doing what they want in art if they happen to get in. There is no shame in being cautious in what one does especially if they have other goals in life other than cutting off their ear.
    1.Argumentum ad populum
    2. I never said there was any shame in it. I did not criticize his choices in life. I criticized the blanket statement.

    Ok well can you give us examples of how you braved the uncertainty and fought to be the great highly compensated artist you are today?

    You haven't told us anything about your experience at all. As far as I know, you are working at the same SUBWAY as the user you are quoting, minus the engineering degree.
    I don't have to. It would prove nothing. That is nothing more than appeal to authority and accomplishment.
    I'm not working at Subway. But if I was, it would not have meant that I failed. You only fail when you quit.

    I think people are allowed a voice and to even caution someone from their own experience without speak for yourself being thrown in their face especially since you still haven't given us that alternative experience of yours.
    I never said they were not. I don't even see why you would need to state that. He voiced his experience and provided a blanket statement that I pointed out might not always be the case. If you want to phrase it as dramatically as me throwing something in someones face, then by all means. I think people should be able to phrase something however they choose despite the subjective responses of others. But hey what do I know, I'm just an asshole who throws things apparently.

    As I said already, providing my own experience does not validate or invalidate my position.

    Last edited by Stuart DeViva; April 4th, 2012 at 04:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UmpaArt View Post
    I hear so many people that sit on a fence because they're afraid and don't end up doing what they want. And it's my opinion that this should not be the case and I would hate to see a potentially great artist not be one because somebody told them not to put all their eggs in one basket.
    I don't see the point of worrying about people's potential. Everybody's got the potential to do and be lots of things in their life so why fixate on this one career choice? When you see a bunch of people enter art school school do you worry about all the ones who would have made great horse trainers? I doubt it.

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    I didn't say that I worry about any of those people. I said that it was my opinion that people should go for what they want in life despite what people tell you.

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    Answer I expected.

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    FFS WTF is going on?

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    Just trying to trying to hand out a little cheap wisdom. But I'm guessing this is about the last time. When I teach or talk face to face there is an understanding where people are coming from and the experience they bring. Here and on the internet I haven't yet settled into the rhythm of everyone and anyone who can type being an expert and having something important to say.

    Someone actually brought some hard earned experience to the table and then was rebuffed for it and I took offense. The response started a discussion. Over for me.

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    Paval it is totally fine to think of creating art as a hobby you enjoy. Its a fucking great thing to do making things for fun, even if in general the realities of your life mean a career as an engineer is a preferable choice for you first career.
    youll have plenty of time to paint on weekends in the nice house being an engineer bought; my dad can draw better than anyone I know and builds nuclear power stations (or did, till the Earthquake!) and brought us up in comfort and security as a result.

    Bill having recently come unstuck at something you said, or seemed to say, when in fact you were just adding to the conversation I can sympathise with Umpalumpa's point of view (having soeone express their personal experience as universal truth IS annoying, even if I er.. -they- do it all the time too), but I dug a little and connected your name to the work I liked and read some of what you said and I can see youre a straight up guy.

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    Thanks dude. I'm glad somebody is at least trying to understand.
    Idk...I just think you should do what you love. Today could be the last day for any of us on earth for an eternity. Why waste the time? I would rather fail than say I never tried. At THIS. Because it's what I love. If you love engineering, then that's awesome too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UmpaArt View Post
    Idk...I just think you should do what you love. Today could be the last day for any of us on earth for an eternity. Why waste the time?
    Absolutely. But "what you love" is not necessarily your career. If you're sitting on the fence then you likely don't know what you love. Maybe you love art and maybe you love flashy cars and maybe you love the idea of being a fabulous famous artist and maybe you love being able to move out of your parents' house and not have your sister steal your shit and sell it for drug money. Maybe you love your job, and maybe you don't love your job but you love what it buys you.

    Life's complicated. You should go for what you want but since what you want is probably lots of different things, some of them contradictory, you should go about it in an intelligent way.

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  20. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcarman View Post
    Just trying to trying to hand out a little cheap wisdom. But I'm guessing this is about the last time. When I teach or talk face to face there is an understanding where people are coming from and the experience they bring. Here and on the internet I haven't yet settled into the rhythm of everyone and anyone who can type being an expert and having something important to say.

    Someone actually brought some hard earned experience to the table and then was rebuffed for it and I took offense. The response started a discussion. Over for me.
    Well if I may offer a little wisdom?

    A lot of times even if there isn't a response, sometimes you get a "thanks" on the bottom of your post, there is a lot of positive appreciation from your posts.

    Human nature however, is that we may see that one naysayer or few of them and think most of the response is negative. We just remember negative over positive....that's kinda how we are.

    So don't let the few people are negative get to you, many out there are more positive and it's hard to see because you don't necessarily see an appreciative smile or nod (even though we have nothing to say).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velocity Kendall View Post
    Paval it is totally fine to think of creating art as a hobby you enjoy. Its a fucking great thing to do making things for fun, even if in general the realities of your life mean a career as an engineer is a preferable choice for you first career.
    youll have plenty of time to paint on weekends in the nice house being an engineer bought; my dad can draw better than anyone I know and builds nuclear power stations (or did, till the Earthquake!) and brought us up in comfort and security as a result.
    Well I would make a pretty bad engineer considering I graduated with marketing I assume you mixed me up with someone.

    As for the painting on weekends point, I am really wrestling with it. I am in a marketing internship and it kind of scares me in that it isn't so bad. Maybe I could make a career out of this..

    The fear comes in that I feel it makes me a regular old person like everyone else. Suddenly my big unrealistic dreams are slipping away.

    But then again, I also agree with the idea that your most excellent performance will come in work you truly love. And excellency and greatness at work is something I aspire to. So maybe trying to get a foot in the art door is the right way to go?

    Aren't you working in art Velocty? I remember your Rolls Royce designs.

    This is all too complicated for me with opposing ideas that hold equal merit.

    Maybe if I set clear goals, make a schedule, a plan of action, and go towards with a psychopath-like determination and discipline, I too can be an artist and achieve my dreams?

    I would like to think that if you have a head on your shoulders and you truly want something enough to actually put your effort towards the step by step achievement of the goals required for the final destination, you can not fail.

    Right?
    Who knows, maybe even disciplined, ambitious-as-hell artists starve to death..

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    "Well I would make a pretty bad engineer considering I graduated with marketing I assume you mixed me up with someone."

    I guess so. but replace engeineering with marketing and it still reads.

    "The fear comes in that I feel it makes me a regular old person like everyone else."

    Deal with it

    "Aren't you working in art Velocty? I remember your Rolls Royce designs."

    Ha yeah but I freelance, I calculated I make 3/4th the average UK wage, or about 1/3 what I did in a studio. Not enough to pay a mortgage, run a car or support a wife or children, just about enough to eat, drink, smoke a little and live a quiet life. I chopped in the Alpine for a skateboard!
    Unless Ive literally just been paid for a big job, money is always tight.
    I think its a fair trade because I never have to go into an office and I can do what I like. I value being able to go and have a beer in the sun whenever I choose over having savings.

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    Did you leave the studio yourself?
    According to my calculations you were making more then twice the average wage while working in the studio.

    You don't plan on having kids and a wife?

    Also, what kind of work did the studio have you doing?

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    According to the BBC website

    "Your wage is 1500 or $2,206. The world average is $1,480.
    Your wage is 72% of the United Kingdom average and 101% of the world average. ."

    After university, in the company Id take home 2400 from work, and maybe 400 from other bits.

    No plans at the moment anyway.

    We did accessories for luxury cars and reskinned old cars for developing markets. I thought it dull.

    Last edited by Velocity Kendall; April 5th, 2012 at 10:55 PM.
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  28. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavel Sokov View Post
    However, could you expand on your thoughts on that? What have you seen happen?
    Well, at the gallery where I had the most work showing, they had me come to a few exhibitions at which they served wine. There was one artist in particular who really struck me as being unaware of the effect that he had on people--he had absolutely phenomenal work, but he would go over and talk to patrons as they looked at his work. Most of us could see that it made the vast majority of them really uncomfortable.

    Several people pointed out to him that he was coming on a bit strong and he brushed them off because they were less skilled than him. Also every time he would get a little tipsy off of the wine he would really start to have personal space issues, where he would get up in a potential client's space and end up chasing them around the room. I think it's likely he was probably slightly autistic or on the spectrum, because he really didn't see what we were getting at and he was generally a nice guy once you got past the lack of social skills.

    It hindered his success, definitely. But, he was skilled enough and really had a great point of view, so people bought his work anyway, but the collectors familiar with that particular gallery ended up avoiding his work at exhibitions. Made it a bit awkward for him because he would stand around and wait and then ambush whoever came up. The gallery owners tolerated it because he did manage to sell work despite this. So, it's not a deal-breaker, but you have to be amazing to pull it off.

    That being said, standing nearby while customers look at your work and listening to their comments is REALLY valuable; it's the most brutal and accurate critique you can find because the person critiquing you doesn't know you're there. I was able to get the nack of hanging around without being noticed when I wanted to listen in. Fading into the background is definitely a valuable skill when you're working in a gallery setting, because most visitors will look at your stuff but don't make the effort to come and see you if they don't like your work. They will, however, request a meeting occasionally if you've impressed them (that's what the gallery owners are there for, to serve as a buffer between artist and buyer).

    I did see one artist who was just fantastic to talk to and people would flock to her to listen to her art process, the way she felt when she made a particular piece, etc. But she was really just great at talking, the kind of person you could listen to about anything and never get bored. She was definitely the exception to the rule. I don't think I could ever pull it off, so I didn't try.

    Last edited by Ohaeri; April 5th, 2012 at 10:49 PM.
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    Thank you everyone for all the post you guys made and
    for not BSing me about the choice.

    On another note I have been in the hospital for quite sometime (nearly got electrocuted) no burns or anything but i did son=me blood work and some other thing decided to show itself.
    I am out 4 days now but i am just to loopy to do anything and its torture on my eyes to look at a tv or even type.

    willl write a proper reply on all that transpired when I am feeling much better and im off the drugs

    ~ Hard work beats wasted talent.

    Doing a little soul searching ^^
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