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I think your forms gotten much better from post #99 where some of faces were a bit wobbly to #153 where the forms are much more solid. Not sure if you heard this cool site:
It's a fun gesture slide show site. If you are interested.
Make a sketchbook happy, feed it a tip to improve!
LastGen cheers thats very encouraging. Trying to commit myself to updating regularly to commit myself to working constantly. Plus over time I can chart my own progress easily spot holes (well not hard to miss at the mo) and hopefully see improvements.
PigeonKill LOL those early post yeah super bad. Think I am still getting used to woking with the pencil again and getting smooth lines quicker. Well the good thing is I am using the earaser less and becoming more confident with my mark making. Although curved forms like breast and nipples are still a challenge.
Thanks again for all the support. Really trying to keep it moving. Aware that I need to get back to do some longer more finished drawings to work on values ect and think about light and shdow shapes ect. It's hard to do that at the moment in life drawing as the poses are so quick. 30 mins to me is a short pose. So it's hard to work on construction and rendering. I ll ned to explore more expressive media like pastel and chalk this should be fun. At least I can feel like Michelangelo if nothing eles.
Mate your development from march to now is...scary. the Improvement is there definitely.
bear with me for what I am about to say, I usually have trouble focusing my thoughts, and I've just gone through your sketchbook so thinking up critique on the fly based on my now fading feeling.
also everything I say is not fact but merely things that work for me, so when I type i'm not trying to impose "do this, do that" but merely things you could consider so forgive me if it comes across that way.
I see you are doing barque drawings now, that initial block in phase of a barque drawing i.e. simple straight lines, can be applied to anything! I noticed a change (rather than a improvement) in my drawing when I opted this style, and it suits my learning style. it will help not only with figure work, from life and from imagination, but will also help with learning placement of values. the way barque drawings to me are done, is it is started in a very simplified manner with the basic block ins and left that way as a gesture drawing, and if you want you can push it to a more detailed finished. more simple things are, More easy it is to remember it. you remember what 1+1 equals dont you? imaginative drawing is actually just memory drawing but playing mix and match with what you know. the better you know the better you are at getting it out. To that end, regardless of whether or not you practice imaginative drawing, it will improve, it's down to what you study and how you study, can't draw armor from imagination well if you never studied it. So with that in mind it is all just a case of learning the best way for you to memorize what you draw. simplification is one way, and it's a skill in itself. another is drawing what you want to learn in repetition.
starting to lose my train of thought
when you are drawing from pose maniacs are you draiwng with advanced mode on? that is what is making the figures the wrong way around. pose maniacs is good for gestures as I find the angles thrown at you in varying perspective angles you cant find on pixel lovely or other photo ref life drawing sites. the 30 second tool is a brilliant way to not only practice quick barque style gestures but also train your eye for accuracy and confidence in line placement, you are not given time to rub out a line and try again, you gotta place that shit DAOWNNN lol
on the site itself there's a youtube video of one of the artists doing very small clean finished gestures with a broad marker. watch it. that's the size I think is good for such a quick drawing.
normally when people start draiwng, they start from the top of the head and then work their way AROUND the body, trying to finish a drawing as clean as possible in such a short time frame, trains you to gauge distances and completely jump from one area of the body to the other with confidence. watch the video and try emulate how he draws.
yeah the barque style also helps with shadow as you are blocking in the major shadow shapes in a simplified manner. I've noticed as well that since I start drawing the shadow line, I know the form a lot better compared to just rendering right off the fly. both methods are stil valid, just dependent on what you want.
now there is two ways for me as to which I class drawing in concentrated repetition. 1st is just choosing an aspect you are weak at, break it down further and then just hammer out studies. instance (humans >limbs> torso) (heads>skull>varied angles) (landscapes>quick simple value gesture of overall scene: tress; rocks; branches) etc.
2nd is actually drawing a single pose repeatedly, spend like 10 minutes on it and draw it about 3-4 times, doesn't need to be super rendered drawings, just sketch getting in the general shape and values. there's a recent example of this on my sketchbook (haha trolling you back to my sketchbook kidding here ya go)
i think I'm pretty much spent on ideas. but in general you are heading in a fantastic direction, big jump in skills since you started which is ammazing! and for you to be working full time and still having the energy to spent time on drawing, admirable man! many people have tried that and failed.
Keep it up man.
ah! if you read comics! gesture some panels from them! any panel that interests you, draw it, for the worth of its composition. that stands for anything actually, composition wise, if you like it, gesture it.
best of luck and thanks for the comment on my sketchbook, I'm 'scribing to yours because I know your journey is gonna be brilliant.
will be in touch.
If I happen to comment on your sketchbook, please don't feel obliged to comment on mine. use that time instead to get back to work.
CA sketchbook: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245741
luthertaylor what can I say thanks for the love. Man your getting deep with your critique you remind me of myself. I like the thinking keep it it will work well for you. Yeah this is my first Bargue still so much to learn from it in terms of values, edges ect appreciate that your into this academic side of the drawing.
I agree about the block being applied to anything if you pick up a copy of the Lessons in Classical Drawing by Juliette Aristides you can def see the block in tchnique applied to various subject matter. I have not evebn began to scrape the surface of it to be honest, but I use the basic principlas to guide my eyes and inform me about realtionships betwenn shapes ect. Really helps with life drawing. Need to start creating time to do those still lifes again you got to love them. So safe to set up and you learn a tone from just a small group of objects.
Glad you noticed the improvements. To be hoonest its only since thse star of October that my work rate has been consistent and I plan on keeping it that way for sure. Really want to get my basic down right. Drawing to me is about translating the world honestly and that means, you got to pay your dues at the begining working on the basic ect. Plus I have like 12 years of drawing time to catch up on so got to keep it moving. Left posemaniacs alone for a bit find quickposes better. Prefer looking at real models then distorted anatomy. But the best is life drawing class helps you make sense of the anatomy studies from books. Thanks for the subscription hope my journey does not disappoint. Def be keeping an eye on you we, can share tips for sure. I like the way your mind works.
Some more figure study updates.
ohohoh! i appreciate your detail to skin folding and skin weight! nice going!
the flow of your lines in your recent figure studies really shows where the motion and energy goes in your poses. i really dig it!
take a peek at my SKETCHBOOK?
die angenehmen Ungeheuer
AangeUnge yeah I love the way skin folds and curves over the body and over muscle the way it cahnges with tensio ect. I always have been obssed with detail and anatomical elements, its why I am a huge fan of some one like Michelangelo and what makes figure drawing so much fun. I am really trying to capture the individual flow of the body and the movement in the body parts when i am drawing, trying to let me eye trace over te skin an zone out and just let mty hand replicate whats taking place in my mind. So glad you can see that in my work. I have been using pen for this very reason to keep me loose and stop me worrying about corecytions and just focus in onthe subject. Its easier to work from life in this way but can translate to phto ref. Think you just need life observation forst to bring that back to your books thats my theory.
Some more figure studies. Will I ever move on from knees lol. Got out my book on David and used photo ref to work on more kneed a bit of hands and some feet from other sources. Want to see how much I know about the forms and shpaes of the hands and feet before sitting down with my anatomy books them spot my weaknesses and target those.
Hey, thanks for taking the time to comment in my sketchbook. I really appreciated your comments. I think you're doing excellent work with form studies of the body, but one thing I would do is to simplify your forms. I can see that you're really paying attention to detail, but I think that it might be better for now to stick to condensing your understanding into simpler forms -- like your drawing of the gluteus muscles in #215 for instance; you could easily eliminate many smaller curves that make the silhouette look 'bumpy'. As for anatomy, I would focus on the function of the muscles and bones, not just on how they look. For instance, the knees-- you really only need to focus on how it works when it flexes. And there is only ONE way the knee flexes! You can only flex the knee up and down, because it is a hinge joint only. There is practically zero sideways movement in the knee; any sideways movement comes from the hip joint. That is what the Bammes diagrams are trying to say. Once you understand the function and which muscles and bones are responsible for the action, you can probably move on.
Always study from the skeleton/bones to the muscles because studying muscles without knowing their attachments or function is like.... studying without a purpose haha. Understanding the forms of the parts is good (like a block for the end of the knee like I'm seeing), but imho you would greatly benefit from studying the skeletal structure. Because in many cases, the underlying anatomy is what dictates the forms, for example the triangular calf -- that's because of the position of the soleus and gastrocnemius muscles relative to the tibia. It is triangular because those muscles are only on the back side of the lower leg as opposed to the thigh which is square because it has muscles on both the front and back in roughly equal proportions. Again and again you will find that the skeletal structure dictates many of these conventional forms we see in books. Our palms 'cup' things because the tarsal bones in the palm itself are arranged in a slight curve themselves. Our fingers curl at the joints only in succession (you can't naturally curl just the tip of your finger without curling the first joint before it) because it is one single tendon pulling on all of the joints.
Again, study inside out. The contours of the body will be that way BECAUSE of the underlying structure of muscle acting on bone.
Sorry for the long ramble, but I hope it helps.
Last edited by Cadaure; December 5th, 2012 at 09:45 PM.
Hey Medelo thanks for the detailed feedback you have left, its all ways very touching when some takes the time to leave you some detailed thoughts to help you improve so its really appreciated. You have some great work in your sketchbook hope you go far.
I agree with you functionality in anatomy is key in terms of understanding what you are looking at and if you want to build a figure from your mind you need to know what the body can and cant do. So your poses are realistic. For example can the arm really bend that much or would it be bent more in a particular pose. Functionality is at the forefront of my mind so I read the relevant chapters before trying to draw. Briedgman is a God for functionality he goes into its so deep. Its only since I have been going to life drawing and doing my own studies that I can now go back and understand what he is talking about and his illustrations. I donít find it particularly helpful just copying his or anyone else drawings. I want to retain my own illustrative style just get the info and apply it to other sources like life drawing or photo ref, thatís the only way to gauge if you are learning or you become a copy machine.
Think there are many approaches to anatomy and drawing in terms of look. It all depends on what you are after. If you want to be a concept designer then speed is going to be imperative so you will need to know how to simplify forms to the barest minimum to style your characters. In the same way that a comic book artist wood but still retain hat real world human knowledge to guide you. For example Marko Djurdjevic from what I have seen does not even build a frame or gesture. He has all that info in his head and just build his figure with an outline and clothes on top. But I bet he knows how to draw a detailed realistic arm, its just he does not need to do that in his work.
Its hard to show ones thinking in your work. All I can post is the final image but there are stages of thinking that get me there, and its that knowledge that I am trying to focus on rather then a particular look.
I am also as much into fine art..its what got me into art in the first place. I am huge fan of the old masters and guys who try to show as much real world detail whilst still being creative. So guys like Michelangelo or Caravvaggio or even modern masters dare I say like Donato and Liberace. They try to stay as true to life as possible. So they donít simplify their limbs they want to show all those bumps and curves because to them thats where the beauty in the human form comes from and thats what viewers respond to when they look at their work. I am not trying to copy anyones style this is how I have always drawn. I am obsessed with detail and always will be thats why I would not want to be a comic book artist as I would not want to simplify to that level. So when you see me drawing those lumps and bumps lol its because thats what I love drawing. It will always be part of my work no matter what type I end up doing. I am trying to learn to draw the body realistically not learn enough anatomy to move on so I can start building my own characters as quickly as possible. I am not nocking anyone just saying depending upon your long term goals you will use different approaches. But thank for the feed back its great and please donít think I am being defensive just sharing views its good when people are analytical.
But I do like drawing the knee because it is so bloody complex and to be able to draw it realistically from any angle like the hands or the feet is a great accomplishment. In my opinion it makes drawing others things seem less challenging. Plus if I draw 100 knees I am cementing all thats knowledge and furthering my understanding and putting in drawing time so its a win win to me. I am in no rush to get to where I want to be just want to get good enough to please myself first, then the rest will take care of itself.
Some more life drawing from latest session. We had a very curvy female was a lot of fun and she really understood her own body and how to present it, I know can see why Rubens enjoyed drawing all those lumps and bumps. Again starting off with the short poses 1 min working up to the longest which was 30. Everyone in class is commenting on how much I am improving and learning, which makes me feel good because it means the work is paying off even if I canít always see it. I can only put this down to time spent drawing and reading hampton and Bammes and now when I add in Briedgeman think it will really move me on again.
Just a quick update going back to doing some object construction studies from life. Doing these in pen, means lines will be sloppy, but will make me work more quickly. I am more concerned about learning proper perspective and using simple 3d forms to break down the objects line accuracy will come in time.
Also a life drawing study I forgot to attach.
Hey man very nice studies!!! before you freehanding elypsis you might wanna check out the anatomy of a elypse that make things a little bit easier but i know freehanding elypsis is very hard
keep up the good studies
ooooh, i like your ventures into the human figure and its complexities, tehres aloooooot of fun there, really its just drawing it like crazy until you can... See it? i cant explain it into words, but you are getting there so you must know what i mean, keep at it, and also always try to KNOW where are your weakspots, is it the foot? or the torso, or maybe balance, anyways study your line after you do it and dont feel discouraged if you Think youre not making progress, you ARE its just not showing in your line yet keep on sharing!
Thanks for posting in my sketchbook. I've had a look through yours - you are really improving. Stick at it with the pen, it will feel like second nature and improve your hand / eye co-ord to boot.
It's interesting seeing how you feel about accuracy in your work. I used to the feel the same way but the more I focus on drawing the more I see that simplification is so important. Doing still lifes really taught me that. One other benefit has been a general decrease in stress when I'm not trying to get everything spot on perfect!
Keep plugging away - you're doing well.
tj0ri yeah I know what you mean, I am just forcing myself to do studies that involve them and trying to get loose and not bogged down in trying to be perfect. Trying to look at how they are used in construction of objects and still trying to be quick, but I will do more finished studies where I really try and pay more attention to accuracy.
nifrit Thanks for the useful feed back always trying to improve on accuracy for sure.
lionheartGFX yeah I know what you mean for sure. The figure is so much fun and def what motivates me to draw will def be a big part of my work down the road. I am seeing improvements slowly but want more lol. Line quality I have let go a bit as i became a bit to obsessed. Since most of the poses are fairly short 5-15 mins, no point wasting that time erasing when you only have a short period to capture as much info as possible. Knowledge is what I am chasing at the mo. But I am finding as I do this I am naturally becoming more accurate and less precious and getting more out of every life session. Big thanks for the kind words means a lot for sure glad you can see the progress.
Skill3ss thanks buddy for stopping by. Glad you think I am on the right road. Will be sticking with the pen for a while for sure. Makes me looser and getting more accurate first time off. Remebering hearing Feng Zhu talk about it as a practice to force you to improve accuracy first time off. Speeds you up and will make me much more confiedent when I work in pencil. I totaly know what you mean about chasing clean lines ect being stressful. Since I have stopped doing that I am doing more and learning more as a consequence. Will def add back in more still lifes and wont be stopping any time soon. Having far to much fun.
First off some little studies from around my life drawing class room during the very annoying 25 min break.
Then some studies from hampton concentrating on the legs this week, will supplement this with Bammes too I think. Not trying to be picture perfect with the copies just learn the concepts. Then some life drawing trying to see how much new knowledge I can implement. Its amazing how much more productive a session is when you go with a specific focus.
The grind is looking good, nice to see you working through the body. Also, the objects from life are much better in this last update.
Love your pencil line. Keep up drawing!
"The fulfillment of oneself is achieved with victory over their challenges"
The studies are coming along nicely mate. Keep them up. You will definitely reap the benefits when you do another rendered piece.
Hey Nouge thanks I feel like I am getting more accurate slowly for sure and seeing things better. I think working in pen is helping me just be more confident. So I am just focusing on what I am seeing and less stress about the marks I am making, which in turn is making me more accurate. Funny you would naturally expect the opposite.
Luckarky thanks man I am beginning to quite like them too lol. Still a long way to go but its working and I def wont be stopping so there will be lots more to see.
Chevy28360 Thanks a lot buddy means a lot. Yeah I think you are right. I am really trying to focus in on the body as a 3d constructed object. So looking at planal shifts ect with contour lines. Michael Hampton is really helping. This will help me when rendering the body, I will be able to think about light and value change as planes shift ect. Guess that how you have to approach everything your drawing espc when working from life even photo ref.
More updates from life drawing. Need to get more rhythm back in my gestures and maybe do some longer ones at home, where I can just feel my way through the pose rather then having to rush in 60 seconds. Was good as a starting practice but need more time now to really push those lines of rhythm ect. Been focusing on the legs this week still reading through Hampton and trying to apply. Was a bit of a let down having a very fat model last night lol as you canít see much anatomical detail under all that fat. But in some ways it also forces you to look really hard and see the insertion points and major masses.
Hey-ja! Good amount of studies! Youíre definitely working hard and the sketches improve every week!
I think you capture the body mass and getting the 3d feeling really good. I like how confident the lines are becoming.
Keep up the great work buddy!
From the first posts to these more recent posts, the improvement is really clear and obvious, your forms are so much better! You also seem to have a very good grasp on gestures and how the body contorts and compresses!
Keep going man
ĒI havenít failed. Iíve just found 10,000 ways that wonít work.Ē - Thomas Edison
My (currently) terrible sketchbook
Your most recent update looks good. Very tight linework and good suggestion of form. Hampton's book is very helpful isn't it? It's funny to see someone else like me working in pen a lot. It has brought me on leaps and bounds since I started - it seems to have done the same for you.
You should have a look at Ryan Woodward if you haven't already. His gesture drawings are very nice:
I also enjoyed his animation - "Thought Of You".
I actually don't mind a fat model. Maybe you should then concentrate on drawing the negative shapes like in a Brague drawing. Having a model not showing you what you want to see is a challenge and by looking at it in a different way, you can bring that to future studies.
I too liked using pen for life drawing as it helped in concentrating the mind to getting it right first time, but then again I tended to scribble to get the form. It's when you're not bothered about producing a perfect rendition, your best work appears as you concentrate on the form first and foremost. Sod the structure - that'll gel later.
hey dude great studies!
"Art is never finished, only abandoned." Leonardo Da Vinci
hey man, nŪce postures, but why don't you render one of them? would be awesome to see something colourful and not so scanned =)
you most defentitley are able to draw and know your perspective.
Glad to still see you at it! I second the notion of doing a few renders. Look up the reilly method of drawing. I think you may like it. Take care and keep pushing
If I happen to comment on your sketchbook, please don't feel obliged to comment on mine. use that time instead to get back to work.
CA sketchbook: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245741