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  1. #1
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    Relocating to Russia!?

    Recently when I contacted a bunch of companies for freelance, I got a response by a company to relocate to Russia to work with them. They said they find my work very interesting and would like to work with me.

    I'm floored. I don't know what to do, what to say. Please oh please help me out here.
    What's the smartest thing to do? I've never even moved out of my city yet, and they want me in Moscow?

    They are a successive game developer for mobile games. I've always wanted to be a part of a creative team working for games.


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    Well... If you want to work there... Say yes? If you're not getting offers like that in your city, odds are you'll have to move sometime anyway, so if it really looks like a good opportunity, why not go for it...

    (I'm assuming you speak the same language as other people on the team? Otherwise that would be awkward...)

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    That's the problem, I know absolutely nothing about Russian culture. I know no Russian what so ever either.

    Everything is basically new. I know nothing about Moscow.

    I guess it's safe to tell what the company is, it's this mobile game company called ZeptoLab http://www.zeptolab.com/

    Man, when I thought about moving to another country, I thought it'd be a place like the US or UK where language isn't completely unfamiliar.

    I guess I'm asking for advice and stuff from people who actually did move to a very foreign place. Like some kind of insight because this is my first opportunity at a gig in a studio.

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    It's hard work, being a foreigner. Absolutely nothing is simple and familiar. It can be very rewarding, of course, but it isn't easy.

    And I made the comparatively familiar US>UK transition.

    If it's a firm job offer and a good one, though, I'd give it a hard think.
    I was once on the receiving end of a critique so savagely nasty, I marched straight out of class to the office and changed my major (sketchbook).

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    Wow, that looks like a neat opportunity! Congratulations
    Since the website is in English, you can safely assume they've got at least one person who speaks English. But do ask them how many people in the team understand English. They should also be able to help with at least some of the bureaucratic stuff - for example, maybe as an employer they can get you the right form for a residence permit or visa, if that is what you need to work there.
    I've lived in another country but it wasn't Russia, so I can't help much with that. One very helpful thing, though, was for me to google "expats in [+name of country]".

    "Expats in Russia" should give you a bunch of relocating information and expat forums where people discuss about moving to and living in Russia.

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    I would say that first off, get on wikipedia and wikitravel and start reading about Moscow. If you're seriously considering it, you should probably fly over and visit the company and the city to make sure because relocating is a pretty big investment, for you and the company hiring you.

    I think language will be a big problem if you choose to relocate - I read about 10% of Russians are fluent in English, and the rest know basic words but can't really use it for serious communication. (Of course cities will have a higher density of English fluency as they will be more accustomed to tourists than rural areas.) The people in the company hiring you are probably fine with speaking English with you, but everything you do outside the office is going to be a pain (like renting a place, buying groceries, answering the door, etc). But if you're the kind of person that's really into learning about new places and experiencing new cultures, it could be an extremely rewarding experience. Even if the whole thing goes pear-shaped and you move home after a few months, I guarantee that you will learn a lot about yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoat View Post
    It's hard work, being a foreigner. Absolutely nothing is simple and familiar. It can be very rewarding, of course, but it isn't easy.

    And I made the comparatively familiar US>UK transition.

    If it's a firm job offer and a good one, though, I'd give it a hard think.
    Sweden > Moscow might be slightly different, haha. but yeah, I really have to think about this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maidith View Post
    Wow, that looks like a neat opportunity! Congratulations
    Since the website is in English, you can safely assume they've got at least one person who speaks English. But do ask them how many people in the team understand English. They should also be able to help with at least some of the bureaucratic stuff - for example, maybe as an employer they can get you the right form for a residence permit or visa, if that is what you need to work there.
    I've lived in another country but it wasn't Russia, so I can't help much with that. One very helpful thing, though, was for me to google "expats in [+name of country]".

    "Expats in Russia" should give you a bunch of relocating information and expat forums where people discuss about moving to and living in Russia.
    Yeah I'm going to have to talk to them a lot more to see if things like that works out. Language surely will be troublesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by dierat View Post
    I would say that first off, get on wikipedia and wikitravel and start reading about Moscow. If you're seriously considering it, you should probably fly over and visit the company and the city to make sure because relocating is a pretty big investment, for you and the company hiring you.

    I think language will be a big problem if you choose to relocate - I read about 10% of Russians are fluent in English, and the rest know basic words but can't really use it for serious communication. (Of course cities will have a higher density of English fluency as they will be more accustomed to tourists than rural areas.) The people in the company hiring you are probably fine with speaking English with you, but everything you do outside the office is going to be a pain (like renting a place, buying groceries, answering the door, etc). But if you're the kind of person that's really into learning about new places and experiencing new cultures, it could be an extremely rewarding experience. Even if the whole thing goes pear-shaped and you move home after a few months, I guarantee that you will learn a lot about yourself.
    Yeah the language has been my biggest concern. I wouldn't mind learning some Russian but it's surely going to be a pain. I do however want to travel and try new things, I just feel really nervous about Russia just because of the language thing.

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    For my part Conny, congratulations!

    And if it means anything, if you are young and single, (unmarried) go for it.

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    Thanks man.

    I'm going to talk more to the company and see what they can do for me. I guess I could make a trip over there, see how the place is and go back to Sweden if I don't like it.

    I just want to make sure there won't be problems. Surely don't want it to suck when I go there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConnyNordlund View Post
    Thanks man.

    I'm going to talk more to the company and see what they can do for me. I guess I could make a trip over there, see how the place is and go back to Sweden if I don't like it.

    I just want to make sure there won't be problems. Surely don't want it to suck when I go there.
    Of course, that makes a lot of sense. I hope you will keep us posted.

    I think more important than the language, the first thing you should do is get the biggest, hairiest ushanka you can find. Nobody will believe you're an out of towner then.

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    Hey congrats man! Really cool to hear you got such great offer. I'm from Russia, so if you have any specific questions about local life, we can chat on skype if you have an account there.

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    Take some wire cutters.
    What would Caravaggio do?
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    Why do I keep thinking of the movie Hostel. . .

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    Hey Conny if your considering doing this I suggest you really sit down and start learning Russian.

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    I've met plenty of people who travels around knowing nothing but English, it's definitely possible and very rewarding.

    It's very important to have friends there that you can trust though. A really good English-speaking friend can totally change your experience there. It makes a world of difference having somebody getting you out of trouble when you get lost/offended somebody/wants to travel/lost your bag with every valuables in it/learn to drive......
    But then getting to know them might or might not be easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamber Parrk View Post
    Why do I keep thinking of the movie Hostel. . .
    Because you are silly and think Moscow is anything like Estonia, Serbia or Slovakia. They won't rape Conny or prostitute him or sell his organs. What they might do is get him to work and not pay him. I do agree that it sounds a tiny bitch sketchy, since Moscow has plenty of very talented Cg artists, and relocating one is a little.. strange.


    Conny:
    I am from Moscow, and my family moved to Canada.
    I am very glad.

    We are rude, depressed, vain, money-oriented, but also ambitious, intense, independent, and don't care about any rules. We also move fast are fairly stressed out.

    The traffic jams in Moscow are legendary. I once was in a 5 hour jam that would of taken 40 mins in Canada.

    Crime is there, people got stabbed in my elevator,etc.

    I don't think people will try too hard to speak English to you. I don't know, but I imagine a hard time making friends for you.

    The pay can be extremely attractive in Moscow. Lots of wealth. Please identify the promised pay and make sure it has a premium on it.

    However, there are no rules. If they don't like you, they will likely get rid of you. Suing doesn't work in Russia.

    At one point Moscow was the world's most expensive city to live.

    The pollution is intense, it is really hard for me to breathe there.

    Russian is a really hard language, and you will have a hard time with it. Like I said nobody will give 2 shits to try and talk to you an English. Nobody cares.

    If you have a thick skin, are used to constant rudeness and stress, and lover money, then do it.

    If you are easily offended, and expect to make friends, then don't.

    However Moscow does have an incredible wealth of culture!
    Last edited by Pavel Sokov; March 7th, 2012 at 03:51 PM.

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    Conny,

    I think it's a good opportunity. Moscow is an attraction to many young and talented people in all the fields. If the invitation was from some kind of remote town with 100,000 inhabitants - I'd think twice about suggesting relocating there. But moving and working in a huge megapolis (8 million people) for a good company - I wouldn't think for too long about such an offer.

    10% speaking English? That's an average for Russia. But Moscow and St.Petersburg is in much higher percent. Also, don't forget about a big amount of US and European companies with their branches in Moscow... there are MANY foreigners from all over the world who live and work there. Probably that's why it always reminds me New York (another little town I like).

    Feel free to ask questions in regards of living there. I'm from St.Petersburg myself, lived for 12 years in the US and then came back. Now traveling here and there, but don't have an urge for living Russia.

    ~~~

    Pavel,

    You've been watching the "Hostel" movie for too long...
    (Kamber, it's about Czechoslovakia, not Russia... or Slovakia, I don't remember now).
    Everything you've said is biased. Except the traffic jams. But imagine any other city in the world with 8mil inhabitants that won't have such a problem.

    And... when you say:
    "We are rude, depressed, vain, money-oriented, but also ambitious, intense, independent, and don't care about any rules. We also move fast are fairly stressed out." - everything is correct except the word "We" - you should change it to "I".
    Please, don't speak for the whole nation... or you might get a Putin syndrome.

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  22. #18
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    Another Russian guy PM'd me with something alike to what you wrote.

    Man, I might turn this down. Russia sounds horrible. God.

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    It seems like a lot of you have really strong and very different views about this. I'm totally confused on my decision..

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    Conny,

    Do you live in a village? If not, I'm sure you can find some Swedish comrades that might have some connections with Russia. Besides, Stockholm is so close to St.Petersburg, we have a ferry going back and forth all the time (with visit to Helsinki), navigation restarts this month. You might think of visiting it at least for a weekend to see everything with your own eyes. Of course, St.Petersburg differs from Moscow (a bit), but it will give you an objective picture of life here.

    "Russia sounds horrible"... Yeah, the land of big drunken bears. Thank you, Pavel!

    Actually, we have two Swedish students studying at our Academy. I might ask them for giving you their contact info, I'm sure they won't mind sharing their objective view about living here. They live and study in St.Petersburg since October 5, 2011.
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    There was a sign on the Academy building, “Free Arts”. “What’s that?”, we asked our professor. – “That’s to be able to create anything, but to create what you want to.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Guru View Post

    ~~~

    Pavel,

    You've been watching the "Hostel" movie for too long...
    (Kamber, it's about Czechoslovakia, not Russia... or Slovakia, I don't remember now).
    Everything you've said is biased. Except the traffic jams. But imagine any other city in the world with 8mil inhabitants that won't have such a problem.

    And... when you say:
    "We are rude, depressed, vain, money-oriented, but also ambitious, intense, independent, and don't care about any rules. We also move fast are fairly stressed out." - everything is correct except the word "We" - you should change it to "I".
    Please, don't speak for the whole nation... or you might get a Putin syndrome.

    ~~~
    I was actualy pointing out that Hostel is nothing like Moscow. Moscow is a lot more grand and sophisticated.

    In terms of being biased, let me work through this.
    Rudeness and depression:I can tell Russians in Canada by the sour-faced demeanor. Smiling isn't one of the moves in our repertoire.

    Money-orientation, obviously true. Moscovites really care about their luxury clothing, gold sinks, and Maybachs. Rich people spit on poor people. That is a real problem in Moscow. Nothing wrong with being rich, but your attitude shouldn't be that you are better then the rest if you have had success. And especially if you stole a company for pennies on the dollar from the government.

    Disregard for rules. Hit the road in Moscow. Get in a traffic jam. Soon people are driving on the train tracks, right on the sidewalks, and I even have taken photos of people driving in the forest next to the highway. In the country side they are lighting grass on fire for some reason. Taxes are a joke. Buying movies or music legally is ridiculous.

    As for being fast, I have made an observation that Canadians live much calmer, and walk, and work much slower. Everyone in Moscow is rushing to god knows where.

    These are pretty objective truths, no?

    With that said, the culture is still rich, and there is much to learn.
    I would still not trust that employer because I don't see why they need a man from Sweden. Moscow has plenty of Cg addicts with lots of talent.

    However Conny, get a price quote. That is key. Sometimes jobs in Moscow pay big money.

  26. #22
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    Pavel,

    However Conny, get a price quote. That is key. Sometimes jobs in Moscow pay big money.
    That's a good point. I don't wonder why they invite foreigners. In Moscow many are spoiled by big money. It's probably more efficient for them to hire a professional and nice guy from Sweden than the kind of "greedy locals" you describe in your posts...

    Regarding the rest...
    It seems like we look at this with different eyes.
    E.g., I've been to Toronto several times. Not to my taste. Too clean, too calm, too programmatic.

    At the same time, during recent book expo in Moscow, when one woman (just a visitor) found out I had about 3 hours before my train, she invited me to her home to have a rest and join her for a dinner. (I know, Kamber's big imagination brings back the "Hostel" movie...)
    I was surprised first and even asked, how can you invite a person without knowing her? She responded, "You either trust people or you don't". We had a nice time, I was almost late for my train...

    Actually, I find moscovites much more open and friendly than people in St.Petersburg. Here we're more private and protective. In Moscow they definitely smile more often than we do here. I think it's like comparing New England to California, if you know what I mean.
    ( you see, I don't smile too often either )

    P.S. In old days (way back before the 21 century) people though that showing your teeth while smiling shows how aggressive you are...
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    Friendly Moscovites?
    I am not sure, I didnt really talk to anyone when I was there the most recent may. One of the few times I spoke to anyone was to a toothless janitor guy who gave me money to buy him vodka with at 11 am because I was heading out of the village haha.

    How is that for stereotypes?

    We also fought with the "Hotel"s (big word for what it was. Paying 5 star money per month for a ridiculous soviet-era shit bunk run by obvious criminals in the middle of fuck knows where) receptionist because they gave us the wrong sized rooms. Apparently we are "idiots" because we should cram the entire family in 2 beds even though we specified 4.

    Maybe I'm just not lucky, but service in Moscow... is.. humorous. I don't even know why they hire service employees. Ex: My mom asks the flight attendant what the temperature will be when we land? The Answer: "I don't give a shit." Literally.

    I saw a woman looking for a special flavor of candies among the wide selection, she asked the lady that was hired for god knows what job if they have it. The answer? "Open your goddamn eyes and find them"

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    Pavel,

    Bad luck, I guess...

    In real life I probably smile too much and have a very friendly face. Usually I don't get into problems. But if I do... I FIGHT !!! And I fight no matter the real price of a deal. I always ask for justice if I know the party is wrong.

    1. Did your mom write a letter of complaint in regards of that attendant's behavior?

    2. Did that woman in a candy store call for a manager?

    I'm sure you'll answer "no" to both. So whom to blame? If you want people to be civilized around you - YOU get into the position of civilizing them. If you either excuse them or hate them without any real involvement - it's you who's wrong as you don't want to change such life.

    A popular saying in Russia by common people, "Ne portite nervy" ("Don't spoil the nerves")... which means don't get involved into anything. I hate this position, I prefer to spoil my nerves but to get things right. The world will never be a perfect spot, but you can at least try to make your surroundings more pleasant.

    Bob Marley project: "Get up, stand up: stand up for your rights!... La-la-la-la-la..."

    (((Btw, the rudest flight attendant I've ever met was a young Frenchman on AirFrance who hated everyone and everyone in return hated him... Though it didn't turn my affection for France a bit - I always judge the country by GOOD things as bad things exist everywhere..... Take NYC - we have Times Square and we have rats in the metro, taxi drivers are the coolest in the world while INS officials are the most stupid I've ever seen... should I like or hate that town? I prefer to love it.)))
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    There was a sign on the Academy building, “Free Arts”. “What’s that?”, we asked our professor. – “That’s to be able to create anything, but to create what you want to.”

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    Pavel. I'm sorry but I have such a hard time believing that everyone in Moscow are angry monsters who stabs people and start forest fires and stuff. That's kinda what you make the place out to be. Trust me, I'm extremely frustrated about the place I live now, people are very close minded and don't have any goals or life dreams. They just don't care to evolve as people anymore. I'm stuck here, in this low-life "everything is fine, don't try so hard" attitude. So I understand that you can have a very negative view on your city. Because I feel the same way about where I live.

    Although, neither do I believe everyone's a nice person. I'm sure there's idiots in all countries, I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth going to Moscow. Things like language, living, etc. It's not like I'm going to live in Moscow the rest of my life. Probably work there for like year or two, through a production or something and then after that I move on to something else.

    I'm just trying to figure out if it's a good idea both socially and professionally. Money doesn't matter so much, what matters to me is the road to where I want to go. Will this thing with Russia be a good idea?

    I'm going to have to ask the company about payment, help to get settled and such. Things you'd expect. I should also visit them to see if it's interesting and a nice place for sure.

    But maybe you're right. I can't say you're not, I'm just saying it's hard to believe I'm going to be spit in the face, lit on fire and stabbed to death by going to Moscow.

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    Also, this being my first actual fulltime concept art job.. Maybe Moscow is to unforgiving? I don't know. I know absolutely NOTHING about Moscow or living in Russia. There's so much talk about the place being horrid, but I've always felt like that's just stereotypical.

    I feel really confused, really. It'd be cool to talk to someone who wasn't brought up in Russia (like those Swedes) and see what they think.

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    I live in a rough part of London and I can't see it's any worse. Learn mime, draw what you want to convey. Sounds exciting, but you're understandably nervous. I grew up in countries going though civil wars, terrorists etc and you learn to ignore what doesn't matter, which is living. A visit sounds a wise move - see if they'll pay if they want you that badly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Spot View Post
    A visit sounds a wise move - see if they'll pay if they want you that badly.
    Yeah. I'm going to see how bad they want me because it's a huge change. This has turned from excitement to extreme nervousness. Probably just because of all this talk about Russians hating everything and stuff.

    If they pay me good and are helpful with things, then I'll consider it and think about it. Otherwise it's not worth it.

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    They want to eat you alive boy, watch your ass!

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    @ Pavel
    talk about born pressed and being pressed 4 life or something.
    Moscow is not foreigner friendly by all means, and I PM'd Conny about it, but shit in your posts speaks lots of your own issues.
    Hope you're doing better in your current place, love & peace.

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